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  1. #241
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Like JSwan, I also started out wearing a hunt cap. Our hunt caps were felt. .
    Wow. You're really old!

    A friend still has one of those felt hunt caps. I still have a simple hard hat.

    We wear them when in formal attire for presenting hounds on foot or in trials - again on foot. They still have a legitimate use, and they do wear out, so I'd hate for them to not be sold. I haven't seen a felt cap for sale for many years - hers is the only one I've seen and it's seen some wear. I was happy to find an "item of apparel only" hard hat for sale in the Dover catalog. I can't afford a Patey.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling



  2. #242
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Wow. You're really old!
    Hey now! Wait just a minute! I am not...well not really that...I object to being called...and it's not really...

    eh, you're right.

    And mine was green! Bottle green. It went with my bottle green jacket. And canary breeches. I looked like a demented Easter Egg.
    (then a used car salesman when Madras jackets came into vogue)


    Just curious, do you wear a seatbelt or are you afraid that would make you subconsciously drive into a tree?
    This made me laugh out loud...loud enough to startle the dog and Mr Blue!


    I wore my helmet into a gas station store once to get coffee - I was doing warm up rides at an IHSA show and honestly forgot that my helmet was still on. Maybe I'm subconsciously afraid of coffee or gas stations?
    I've driven around in mine a time or two, forgot I had it on. Wore it to pick up hay once by accident, hay guy says, "You must be one sh*tty driver!"
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #243
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    At Pimlico there are barns on both sides of the track. There is no way to get to the other side from inside the grounds so you have to drive around. One rider was driving from one side to the other to get on horses so she didn't take any of her equipment off as it was literally like a one minute drive. Someone ran the red light and t boned her car. She did have a TBI despite the helmet and was in very serious condition but would not have survived without it. I am not advocating wearing a helmet in a car, just pointing out how fragile life is.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Michigan
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    10,441

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Ask a ballet dancer about injuries. That's one tough discipline! Those folks do their thing in more pain than MMA fighters. BUT, when they perform, they must appear to be dancing in a magical, weightless state of effortless elegance. You don't see them wearing knee braces, helmets and steel-toed boots.
    Point: Dancers are usually done by age forty at the oldest. With hip or knee replacements. (Plus, yeah, some do wear knee braces, tape, and wraps, you just cant see them.) If they're injured, they don't go on. The worry isn't an instantly-fatal injury to the skull, just long-term pain and wear. Says the person currently nursing an inflamed tendon who competed in ballroom on it anyway (the adrenaline helps. I was dying between heats but on the floor I honestly didn't notice anything.)

    A more apt comparison would be skating, where the pair girls in particular fall from higher up at faster speeds onto a harder surface than most riding accidents. No helmets (yes, in part because they do look stupid; also a lot of them interfere with peripheral vision) but there's one big factor with riding that differentiates it from skating, dancing, and other sports that involve appearance: the participation of a 1200+ lbs animal with a not-very-intelligent functioning brain who may go by the same tree 364 days straight without batting an eye and on day 365 decides HOLY SHIZNITS IT'S A HORSE-EATING MONSTER!!! and flip out.

    Again, I don't care about you, your family, or the in-home caregiver they hire to change your nappies if you wind up in a wheelchair. Heck, personally I'm more afraid of kicks and crush injuries around horses. I don't show, so the rule doesn't affect me. I do not care if you ride in a custom-made tailored shadbelly made from wool woven from the hand-plucked shed fibers of Himalayan goats or if you wear a Wal-Mart tank top and Daisy Dukes. But the rule is if you want to ride at these shows, put on the helmet. If you don't want to wear one, don't go to the shows.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    4,270

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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    Wow. You're really old!

    A friend still has one of those felt hunt caps. I still have a simple hard hat.

    We wear them when in formal attire for presenting hounds on foot or in trials - again on foot. They still have a legitimate use, and they do wear out, so I'd hate for them to not be sold. I haven't seen a felt cap for sale for many years - hers is the only one I've seen and it's seen some wear. I was happy to find an "item of apparel only" hard hat for sale in the Dover catalog. I can't afford a Patey.
    Love your posts, and I get the feeling we're about the same age. So is a friend of mine who was over for coffee this morning, and I told him about this thread. Happens his family are close relatives of one of the NE's old-guard BNT's in the H/J world, and between the 3 of them they have about 120 combined years on the AA Circuit. Reaching far back into the days when almost everybody was riding TB's and all but Children's Hunters were jumping at LEAST 3'6". Add in my 40 years in horses, more of it in the Dressage and Eventing circles, and we add up to some pretty substantial experience. Here was the question I asked:

    How many people do YOU KNOW PERSONALLY, in all those years, who sustained a fatal or life-altering head injury? Answers: Them, none. Me: One.

    OK; how many people did you hear of second-hand (not via media but hearsay) who suffered one? Answers: We each could think of only one.

    Next, I called up two friends outside the horse business. One is a long-time neurologist on Long Island. "How many head traumas have you treated IN YOUR CAREER (he's in his 60's) caused by a fall from a horse?" Answer: One, from a kick.

    Second guy is a busy EMT in southern New Jersey. "How many people have you and your squad treated for a TBI caused by a horse IN YOUR CAREER?" (He's also in his 60's.) Answer: NONE!

    Now I understand that the plural of "anecdote" is not "data," but it would seem to me that based on this very informal survey, the PROBABILITY of serious injury, vs. the POSSIBILTY, is being grossly overstated, and has been since about 1985, by an agenda-pushing alliance of do-gooders and marketeers with Stuff to Sell. And they sell it to US, because the cowboys, a far bigger market, turned 'em down flat! They give their kid a 4-wheeler and a paintball gun and tell him to go play in the quarry!

    Oh, BTW, Laurierace, all I know about Parelli I've read on COTH. Nothing to do with me!

    Now, taking the poster I have quoted above as the short history of where we all started, let me add one more little thing to what s/he said:

    Common scenario, ca. 1975:

    An outside course of 2'6" through well-groomed fields. Considered good clean fun for any nine-year-old who has mastered "heels-down" and a mane-grab in moments of duress. Frequently executed with whoo-whoop sound effects and performed in shorts, keds, and elastic chin strap hat, often bareback and without adult supervision. Parents and trainers totally cool with this!

    Common scenario, 2012, as discussed in INNUMERABLE threads on COTH:

    Same size course, far more stringently groomed. 35-year-old adult on professionally-produced $30K horse, hyperventilating in start box, dressed like the Human Cannonball. She is going into Mortal Combat, medical records strapped to her arm, reminding her of the sport's DANGER!!! Visions of rotational falls and helicopter airlifts are giving her tunnel vision and shortness of breath which are NOT helpful, brought to her by YouTube. The Greek Chorus singing in her head, "You will FALL, you will DIE!" Three, Two, One . . . MAN, you gotta be MAJOR BADASS to survive jumping 2'6"!

    Now you tell ME what's happened . . . !


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
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    Oct. 18, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Love your posts,
    I must have said it wrong.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
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    Aug. 15, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    I must have said it wrong.
    Mr. Spot just asked me if I needed help breathing. I might. STILL laughing.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
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    Nov. 23, 1999
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    South Coast Plaza
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    I had a TBI 17 1/2 years ago from a helmetless fall. I am still on medication for vertigo. It was a complete effing nightmare. I would not wish it on my worst enemy.

    Had the convo about it with a friend in June 2008, pointing out to her that it was exceptionally stupid to ride her mare sans helmet, because you just never knew. She laughed, told me she had been riding since she was four and in her 35 years of riding had not had a fall and was a good enough rider that she wouldn't.

    Two weeks later, her horse came home without her. A friend found her, one side of her head caved in where the stepped on it when she fell off. They kept her on life support long enough so her parents could fly in from Australia and say goodbye. Her children, whom she'd brought from Australia a few years before because she married an American man, were now not only motherless, but motherless in a country they hadn't wanted to come to in the first place.

    This gal grew up on a ranch in Australia and rode better than almost anyone I knew. A life thrown away and many lives devastated because wearing a helmet was for sissies.
    EDDIE WOULD GO


    5 members found this post helpful.

  9. #249
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    Dec. 10, 2010
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    nevada
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    Neurosurgeon here, neurologists generally do not care for trauma patients. I have treated at least a few dozen significant head injuries from riding. Almost always without a helmet. Several I have known have died. Not that rare.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  10. #250

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    Used to work trauma. Neurotrauma. You won't find me without a helmet, ever. EVER. "Horse vs. person" isn't something I want to treat anymore. Perhaps Eboshi's friends who gave the anecdotes never treated the individuals because they didn't have any chance of recovery. And the EMT wouldn't have treated the TBI as that isn't a diagnosis they could have given...they would have transported the person from the accident. I've seen it first hand, and it isn't pretty. In fact, it is incredibly sad. I'm curious as to whether those who ride without helmets will also ski without helmets.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #251
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    Apr. 25, 2008
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    I'm so sorry, coreene. Truly awful.

    Swamp Yankee/lady eboshi, I believe you live to argue for the (perceived) fun of it. However, personally knowing a family who lost their young teen daughter when her "dead broke" old sturdy, steady-eddy horse stumbled (daughter fell, died from head trauma, no helmet), I don't find this topic worthy of your ill-conceived attention-getting banter.
    Quote Originally Posted by alicen View Post
    We have no intentions of tarring and feathering anyone: this is now a thread about dipping Ryan Reynolds in chocolate.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  12. #252
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    SwampYankee...be careful of whom you speak for on this BB.
    I'm also from CT, born and raised. And not a spring chicken.

    Worked, trained, showed, working student, BM, BO, flipper, gave lessons. Small state.

    Either your oh-so-timely Coffee With BNT drop-in and phone-a-friend neuro-oops-wrong kind-googled-it-wrong is fibbing to you or else it's imaginary.

    A handful of years in a row one of CT's biggest shows Children's Services had a handful of traumatic rider injuries. Mostly head injuries. Back when our helmets were felt or plastic buckets with velvet overlay and a rubber band under the chin to keep it from blowing off. (or for your friends to walk by and snap, leaving little red welts)
    Can't be much of an old time BNT in state and not have shown CS.

    Lots of Olympic riders have had falls and cracked their ASTM helmets. Guess they don't count as experienced and are probably timid folk? Friend/former coach National CDI singles champ/olympian concussions.

    CT state insurance covers countless TBIs from horseback riding accidents. Ask in ANY ER in in this state what they assume when they hear a rider fell off and is being bused in. "Head injury, bad one!" Or just "Organ Donor" they'll all tell you. 2 sisters as ER nurses. Actual sisters. Actual nurses.
    Another sister in insurance...tons of claims in for TBIs from riding.

    The national insurance institute: 60% of all equestrian deaths are due to TBI.

    Please don't make up "facts" and friends to attempt to win an online debate.


    All in all, it doesn't matter what real or even imaginary friends say. If the USEF says "You gotta" then you gotta. No need to piss and moan over that which you cannot change. And many of those moaning the loudest, don't show USEF. And nobody is forcing you to wear a helmet outside of the USEF.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #253
    Join Date
    Nov. 23, 1999
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    South Coast Plaza
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    Thank you, Carolina. I get so pissed at her every time I think of it.
    EDDIE WOULD GO


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
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    Nov. 1, 2001
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    9,300

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    In the past, I was casual about wearing a helmet. I always meant to use one, but they were uncomfortable and hot. And sometimes I just forgot. I've come off and been injured but never seriously. It is just part of riding, right?

    2 years ago, I came off after a really bad spook, complete with twisting bucks and a capriole finish. The kick of the capriole caught me in the side as I was headed towards the ground. It broke 3 of my ribs. Luckily, I had a helmet on, because I hit the dirt hard with no control. That was the most pain I have ever experienced. I had a lot of time to think about it as it lasted for weeks. I know I dodged a bullet that day. I am extremely lucky that all I had was pain.

    I will never ride without a helmet again.
    I don't mind if others choose not to wear a hard hat. I figure it is evolution in action. Just do the rest of us a favor and carry an organ donor card.
    Last edited by nhwr; Feb. 23, 2013 at 11:55 PM.
    See those flying monkeys? They work for me.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
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    May. 25, 2003
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    Orlean, Virginia
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    Thumbs up back in! RN chimes in!!

    Just a reminder to you dressage diva's that your sports attire originated 100% from foxhunting attire. Shadbelly, stocks, tophats & all. Foxhunting diva's & fans think THEY are gorgeous with shadbellys & helmets! They switched to helmets years ago. Like I said...it's 2013 ! Get over it!
    Altho', I for one, will NEVER be able to rock a shadbelly and will remain forever envious of those who can/do. I hate ya'll and hope you get fat!!
    Helmets lessen the # of brain cells you lose when you fall. They help but are still only somewhat preventative in that you lose some EVERY TIME!! And it's cumulative over your lifetime. I can't afford to lose ONE brain cell since they don't grow back. We know that early onset dementia is caused by TBI. Look at the research the NFL is doing! Ever notice how many odd horsewomen there are? Quirky, eccentric, impulsive, lacking good decision making skills, lacking safety awareness, lacking any sense of self preservation, prone to doing reckless things, mild memory problems? These are just SOME of the hallmarks of loss of higher level cognitive function from loss of brain cells from ANY level of concussions. Even if you hit your head WITH a helmet and just see stars for a minute....you have sustained a loss of brain cells. It's often at the cellular level and is undetectable ie: no symptoms. But it happened. YOU will be the last person to notice the symptoms because lack of self awareness is a symptom. Lack of common sense, safety awareness are classic symptoms in our horsesports.
    I worked 13 yrs in a head injury rehab hospital. The symptoms of TBI can also be things like: insomnia, depression, eating disorders, social discomfort, anxiety, nervousness, fatigue, lack of inertia/energy, disorganization, scattered thinking and varied forms of memory loss........like : Where'd I put my keys?!! Does ANY of this feel familiar to you? How do you know your symptoms are from something else and not some klunk to your head.?
    And I can't help thinking that justifying higher levels as immune to traumatic injury is denial or rationalization for immitating THEIR bad behaviors! Again you wanna look like them! The fact they don't is from a lifetime of tbi's and it's cumulative loss of braincells. Poor judgement at it's most obvious.
    There now, I feel better now. !! Carry on!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #256
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    Jan. 10, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    FWIW, I haven't seen the CKD video. And I won't.
    Don't you just love a curious mind, one that wants to be informed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


    5 members found this post helpful.

  17. #257
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    Apr. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by wateryglen View Post
    Just a reminder to you dressage diva's that your sports attire originated 100% from foxhunting attire. Shadbelly, stocks, tophats & all. Foxhunting diva's & fans think THEY are gorgeous with shadbellys & helmets! They switched to helmets years ago. Like I said...it's 2013 ! Get over it!
    Altho', I for one, will NEVER be able to rock a shadbelly and will remain forever envious of those who can/do. I hate ya'll and hope you get fat!!
    Helmets lessen the # of brain cells you lose when you fall. They help but are still only somewhat preventative in that you lose some EVERY TIME!! And it's cumulative over your lifetime. I can't afford to lose ONE brain cell since they don't grow back. We know that early onset dementia is caused by TBI. Look at the research the NFL is doing! Ever notice how many odd horsewomen there are? Quirky, eccentric, impulsive, lacking good decision making skills, lacking safety awareness, lacking any sense of self preservation, prone to doing reckless things, mild memory problems? These are just SOME of the hallmarks of loss of higher level cognitive function from loss of brain cells from ANY level of concussions. Even if you hit your head WITH a helmet and just see stars for a minute....you have sustained a loss of brain cells. It's often at the cellular level and is undetectable ie: no symptoms. But it happened. YOU will be the last person to notice the symptoms because lack of self awareness is a symptom. Lack of common sense, safety awareness are classic symptoms in our horsesports.
    I worked 13 yrs in a head injury rehab hospital. The symptoms of TBI can also be things like: insomnia, depression, eating disorders, social discomfort, anxiety, nervousness, fatigue, lack of inertia/energy, disorganization, scattered thinking and varied forms of memory loss........like : Where'd I put my keys?!! Does ANY of this feel familiar to you? How do you know your symptoms are from something else and not some klunk to your head.?
    And I can't help thinking that justifying higher levels as immune to traumatic injury is denial or rationalization for immitating THEIR bad behaviors! Again you wanna look like them! The fact they don't is from a lifetime of tbi's and it's cumulative loss of braincells. Poor judgement at it's most obvious.
    There now, I feel better now. !! Carry on!
    Gee, and here I thought that came from booze . . .



  18. #258
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    Apr. 17, 2012
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    Folks, you're absolutely right; head injuries are no joking matter, and everyone on my farm wears a helmet, every ride now, including ME, OK? Common sense.

    But the fear-mongering and dwelling on accidents is beyond tedious.



  19. #259
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    Oh I agree 100% with you on 'fear mongering.' I think it does a serious disservice to today's riders and keeps them from not only advancing but also from enjoying riding.

    It's good to stay informed of safety. It's not productive to dwell on it.

    However this thread wasn't about dwelling on it, it was more about how dressage is *advancing* and going for modern safety over fashion. And it *is* sad when we see certain aspects of the traditional attire disappear, but not overly much when it's disappearing due to safety reasons. Although I'd bet in a relatively short time new helmet styles will be popping up designed specifically for dressage attire.

    It's great that you and everyone on your farm wears helmets now. I am confused why everyone else who wears one is a weenie, but at least you're protecting the grey matter. Early onset dementia woouldn't be fun, you could forget which persona you're logging onto here with.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #260
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Alrighty here, Aren't Lady Eboshi and Swamp Yankee the same poster? Why are they on the same thread?


    4 members found this post helpful.

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