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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dressurpferd01 View Post
    I'm happy for you. Try to consider that some of us invested a large amount of money in top hats, and now can no longer wear them (I won't be doing any CDIs anytime soon). I spent $500 on a nice top hat two years ago, and only got to use it for one season. I'm pissed. It's my choice what to wear on my head.
    Not any more, it isn't. Oh, and I spent more than $15,000 on a horse once and only got to show him one season because he died. Stuff happens. You will survive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


    25 members found this post helpful.

  2. #22
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    May. 14, 2009
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    Odd man out here.
    Never even considered buying top hat when bought shadbelly.
    Ride & home and @ shows w/ helmet, always have, was brought up that way so think nothing of it. But have kids so two main reasons.
    1. they need me healthy
    2. they are required to wear every ride

    I'd be too much of a hypocrite to ride without.


    18 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    May. 10, 2009
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    NC piedmont
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    Here's the thing...even if you have insurance, if you suffer a TBI that costs thousands in treatment, everyone ELSE's insurance premiums go up to defray the cost. If insurace could say, "Not wearing a helmet was your choice, not paying for your stupidity is ours," it might be different. But until then, why should the rest of us pay so you can look oh-so-special in a dressage test?

    And you'll look better in a helmet on your horse than in a top hat in a wheelchair.


    28 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    I am so sad to see the helmet police have invaded dressage. As a former H/J rider, I went through this years ago when ASTM/SEI helmets were made mandatory for that discipline. My poor gorgeous Patey, which fit perfectly and never came off my head, had to be replaced with a not-so-quite-perfectly fitting approved helmet. I have several of them, in fact... GPAs, CO AYR8, etc. I've spent a small fortune trying to find an approved helmet that doesn't give me a headache. Guess I must just have an odd shaped head or something.

    And to all those who yammer on about insurance costs - sorry, it's simply not true. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the H/J boards, including explanations from insurance professionals who actually develop and price insurance plans, if you care to check your facts.

    Riding is an inherently dangerous sport, and I would never dream of judging someone for using (or not using) a particular item of safety equipment. But for adults, I believe the matter should be one of individual choice, at least at home. I do understand why competition management might choose to mandate approved helmets.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    Here's the thing...even if you have insurance, if you suffer a TBI that costs thousands in treatment, everyone ELSE's insurance premiums go up to defray the cost. If insurace could say, "Not wearing a helmet was your choice, not paying for your stupidity is ours," it might be different. But until then, why should the rest of us pay so you can look oh-so-special in a dressage test?

    And you'll look better in a helmet on your horse than in a top hat in a wheelchair.
    Do you really want to give the non-horse riding people (the overwhelming majority of those who pay premiums) that argument to use against you?

    Think it through long and hard before you make the argument that because you pay into a risk pool that gives you a say in how others live their lives.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    May. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    Do you really want to give the non-horse riding people (the overwhelming majority of those who pay premiums) that argument to use against you?

    Think it through long and hard before you make the argument that because you pay into a risk pool that gives you a say in how others live their lives.
    There is a difference between doing something and talking all precautions (helmet, etc.) and doing something with no regard for safety (which you most certainly are doing if you get on a horse with no helmet). You could make the same arguments about people who ride a bike, motorcycle, skydive etc. You know what? If those people take all reasonable precautions in their hobby, I have no problem with their risk being spread. It's the ones not taking the precautions due to pride or stupidity that I have issues with covering.

    If those of us who wear our helmets every ride didn't have to pay for those who don't, I say go ahead and be as stupid as you want.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  7. #27
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    I have no heartburn with a private entity establishing a "helmet rule" for their activity. When we boarded we required helmets for riders under 18 and strongly encouraged them for all. We ran a 4H horse project for several years and helmets, along with long pants, proper boots, etc. were required. Adults who assisted the kids wore proper clothing, as well, to set a good example.

    I'm here to write this today because I was wearing a good quality, correctly fitting helmet when I got thrown. Even with proper equipment my medical expenses were north of $22,000 (one night in the hospital; one MRI; three CAT scans; the government payed just over 90%; I'm a USNR retiree).

    I would not support a government mandate. That's over-reaching, IMO. But a private entity has the right, and duty, to make rules for it's own activities. People can then choose to participate or not.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    11 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Sep. 9, 2008
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    Times change. And really, $500 is a drop in the bucket if you are showing at FEI levels. We've ALL spent at least that much at some point just to turn around and realize it was a waste. Shine up your horse, put on your TH at tails at home, and take some pictures if it means that much to you. Most people never notice what a rider has on their head at shows anyway, especially when they are riding beautifully.
    "Winter's a good time to stay in and cuddle,
    but put me in summer and I'll be a... happy snowman!!!"

    Trolls be trollin'! -DH


    9 members found this post helpful.

  9. #29
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    There is a difference between doing something and talking all precautions (helmet, etc.) and doing something with no regard for safety (which you most certainly are doing if you get on a horse with no helmet). You could make the same arguments about people who ride a bike, motorcycle, skydive etc. You know what? If those people take all reasonable precautions in their hobby, I have no problem with their risk being spread. It's the ones not taking the precautions due to pride or stupidity that I have issues with covering.

    If those of us who wear our helmets every ride didn't have to pay for those who don't, I say go ahead and be as stupid as you want.
    There are many people who have never thrown a leg over a horse that would consider riding, at all, to be an unnecessary risk. Their POV is as legitimate as yours and there are a lot more of them than there are of us.

    As an aside, the majority of states do not require adults to wear anything on their head when riding a motorcycle or bicycle. Now what are you going to do?

    Some people simply cannot help themselves against controlling others without ever realizing how the shoe will feel on the other foot.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Sep. 8, 2007
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    Its a sport, not a fashion show. IMO top hats look ridiculous anyway.


    21 members found this post helpful.

  11. #31
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwblover View Post
    Its a sport, not a fashion show.
    Perhaps a one piece lycra suit would be more appropriate than a coat with tails and a strip of white cloth tied in a square knot around the neck?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Nov. 15, 2006
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    Lexington, Kentucky
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    As far as 'risk pool', I sure hope none of you advocating you don't want to pay for someone else's head injury-

    a.- under any circumstances text and drive
    b.- are going around with untreated high blood pressure
    c.- are eating a high fat high sugar diet
    d.- are not exercising
    e.- are overweight
    f.- don't wear your seatbelt
    g.- are riding a horse that is beyond your ability
    h.- blahblahblahblah.......

    because we don't want to pay for your irresponsibility. Where's the line?
    Same old, same old argument.

    I choose to wear a helmet, but that's my choice.
    We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
    www.dleestudio.com


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    May. 10, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    There are many people who have never thrown a leg over a horse that would consider riding, at all, to be an unnecessary risk. Their POV is as legitimate as yours and there are a lot more of them than there are of us.

    As an aside, the majority of states do not require adults to wear anything on their head when riding a motorcycle or bicycle. Now what are you going to do?

    Some people simply cannot help themselves against controlling others without ever realizing how the shoe will feel on the other foot.
    I didn't say there should be a law mandating it. If you want to be stupid on your own property and your own toys, by all means, be stupid. I just think insurance companies should have the legal option not to cover people involved in any risky activity ONLY if they don't take proper precautions. That includes riding a bike, rollerskating, driving a car (wearing a seatbelt), motorcycles, horses, etc. I do not believe they should be legally allowed to deny coverage to those that DO take precautions.

    But since that's never going to happen, I'll just say this: not only is throwing a leg over without a helmet stupid, it is incredibly selfish. Bravo to USEF for making more helmet rules, because they protect us ALL.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    I didn't say there should be a law mandating it. If you want to be stupid on your own property and your own toys, by all means, be stupid. I just think insurance companies should have the legal option not to cover people involved in any risky activity ONLY if they don't take proper precautions. That includes riding a bike, rollerskating, driving a car (wearing a seatbelt), motorcycles, horses, etc. I do not believe they should be legally allowed to deny coverage to those that DO take precautions.
    If the probability of loss is too great, insurers should damn well be able to cut their losses. Taking "precautions" means jack.

    If an insurer decides that ALL equine sports are too much of a loss risk, why should they be forced to cover you even though you wear a helmet or take other "precautions"?

    Insurers do not exist to facilitate your enjoyment of risky activities. They exist to make money by insuring against risks that IN THEIR ANALYSIS do not present an excessive exposure to loss.

    Who are you to make that determination for them?



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    And to all those who yammer on about insurance costs - sorry, it's simply not true. This has been discussed ad nauseum on the H/J boards, including explanations from insurance professionals who actually develop and price insurance plans, if you care to check your facts.
    Please provide some evidence that what you have yammered about is true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


    5 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenryisBlaisin' View Post
    I didn't say there should be a law mandating it. If you want to be stupid on your own property and your own toys, by all means, be stupid. I just think insurance companies should have the legal option not to cover people involved in any risky activity ONLY if they don't take proper precautions. That includes riding a bike, rollerskating, driving a car (wearing a seatbelt), motorcycles, horses, etc. I do not believe they should be legally allowed to deny coverage to those that DO take precautions.

    But since that's never going to happen, I'll just say this: not only is throwing a leg over without a helmet stupid, it is incredibly selfish. Bravo to USEF for making more helmet rules, because they protect us ALL.
    I spent about 10 years as a claims attorney and claims supervisor for a property/casualty company. What you propose would be a real nightmare to administer. Denial of coverage is a BIG DEAL in most places and, absent a very complete record, would expose the company to serious liability in the event of an erroneous coverage determination.

    Then there's the whole issue of "proper precautions" and drafting appropriate language.

    I agree that wearing a helmet on horseback should be the default and that show sponsoring organizations should consider mandatory wear.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #37
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    May. 25, 2005
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    best place so far
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    I have no heartburn with a private entity establishing a "helmet rule" for their activity. When we boarded we required helmets for riders under 18 and strongly encouraged them for all. We ran a 4H horse project for several years and helmets, along with long pants, proper boots, etc. were required. Adults who assisted the kids wore proper clothing, as well, to set a good example.

    I'm here to write this today because I was wearing a good quality, correctly fitting helmet when I got thrown. Even with proper equipment my medical expenses were north of $22,000 (one night in the hospital; one MRI; three CAT scans; the government payed just over 90%; I'm a USNR retiree).

    I would not support a government mandate. That's over-reaching, IMO. But a private entity has the right, and duty, to make rules for it's own activities. People can then choose to participate or not.

    G.
    This is really what it comes down to. A private organization has the right to dictate the rules. If you don't like the rules play in another sandbox. I think it silly that I have to 1) braid my horse 2) where a monkey suit 3)take off my tie if taking off my coat 4)where sleeved shirt in 100F weather 5) where light colored breeches...but I do all these things because I want to show! Wearing a helmet is just another regulation of the "uniform"
    Read about my time at the Hannoveraner Verband Breeders Courses:
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2011.html
    http://blumefarm.com/hannoveranercourse2012.html


    9 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Dec. 10, 2012
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    Insurance companies have either cancelled or refused new underwriting requests for homeowner's insurance in many coastal areas due to the probability of losses due to hurricanes.

    They really don't care about any "precautions" individual homeowners may take. Nor should they.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehof View Post
    This is really what it comes down to. A private organization has the right to dictate the rules. If you don't like the rules play in another sandbox. I think it silly that I have to 1) braid my horse 2) where a monkey suit 3)take off my tie if taking off my coat 4)where sleeved shirt in 100F weather 5) where light colored breeches...but I do all these things because I want to show! Wearing a helmet is just another regulation of the "uniform"
    I don't think anyone is arguing that.

    It's the non-sensical insurance arguments that get play.



  20. #40
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    Sep. 4, 2006
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    At this point, USEF needs to put up or shut up. Mandate them for ALL disciplines that they govern or none. This piecemeal crap is nonsense.


    13 members found this post helpful.

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