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  1. #1
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    Dec. 12, 2007
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    Question Bit Recommendation?

    Yes, sorry - another bit thread.

    I have an older TB jumper who is very sensitive and can be very hot when he gets excited. Last year I switched from a French link loose ring snaffle into a baucher bit and the difference has been amazing. He has softened up and listens quite well. My only complaint is when we are progressing through a course or galloping out in a field he ramps up so much and just blows through my half halts. I have done a lot of work this year to get him to listen to me and he has improved dramatically but sometimes his enthusiasm is too much and I feel like a passenger rather than a partner (especially when I get tired from all the strong half halts!).

    When I first got him, his natural inclination was to do a really great giraffe impression It has taken me a while to get him relaxed under saddle and know that low/long can be comfortable. I feel like I need something with a little more leverage but not something that will shock him since he does go so nicely in the baucher 90% of the time.

    I have him in a figure-8 with a running martingale and I would prefer to keep him in that setup if I can. Any suggestions?



  2. #2
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    Dec. 12, 2007
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    Bump



  3. #3
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    Aug. 28, 2007
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    here's what I'm hearing.
    First, I had to check to see which thread category I was in because fatigue on course is something for those eventers on an 11 minute gallop round. You shouldn't be getting tired on a 90 second jumpers course. My guess is that as you get tired you aren't using your body correctly and so you are having to resort to your hand. I'd also suspect that you aren't breathing with all of your lungs.
    My jumping horses are taught the 3 seats and we practice these 3 seats every step we ride. I almost never have to take with my hand on stadium because my horse stays on the aides using my body.

    How often are you working through gymnastic grids?
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble


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  4. #4
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    Apr. 2, 2011
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    Westchester, NY
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    Are you lifting your horse with leg while you ask for the half halt with your hand? It sounds like he's getting on his forehand and leaning and that maybe you are asking with too much hand and not enough leg to get him rebalanced so that he can slow down.

    If he goes well in a baucher, I'd suggest a pelham for a little more woah. Without touching the curb rein the pelham is basically a baucher but the curb is still there for when you need it.


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  5. #5
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    Dec. 12, 2007
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    Sorry... I should have been more specific. Me getting tired is towards the end of a ride - so I am talking about the tail end of a jump schooling session or towards the end of a 10 min. cantering/galloping run out in a wide open field. It's just that while I am getting tired, he is still ramping up.

    We do gymnastics often and I have to alter the pattern constantly to keep him thinking and listening to me or he will get overzealous and try to "take charge" (the alpha part of him comes out). I could do the same when we go for our open field runs but with how much he enjoys them, I just was hoping there was something that would allow me to let him go but still bring him back when I need it. It may be as he gets faster and faster, I am tensing up which is making me tired so I'll have to look out for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petstorejunkie View Post
    here's what I'm hearing.
    First, I had to check to see which thread category I was in because fatigue on course is something for those eventers on an 11 minute gallop round. You shouldn't be getting tired on a 90 second jumpers course. My guess is that as you get tired you aren't using your body correctly and so you are having to resort to your hand. I'd also suspect that you aren't breathing with all of your lungs.
    My jumping horses are taught the 3 seats and we practice these 3 seats every step we ride. I almost never have to take with my hand on stadium because my horse stays on the aides using my body.

    How often are you working through gymnastic grids?



  6. #6
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    Nov. 29, 2008
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    Maybe try a Pelham as Rel6 suggested, or a Snaffle Gag such as a Cheltenham. Both bits are typically ridden with two sets of reins so you only need to engage the Gag or the Curb when it's needed.

    Edited to add: just noticed you said he had a tendency to bring his head up, so a gag may not be a good choice.



  7. #7
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    Feb. 17, 2013
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    North Bay S.F.
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    No Gag. transitions will teach him and you....pay attention to your flat work. It is possible to adjust with a Pelham or "more" Bit.., but a clear communication with him, I expect you have not established... too much rush and not enough detail is common. Study the issue and don't correct with hardship.



  8. #8
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    Feb. 17, 2013
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    North Bay S.F.
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    Quote Originally Posted by clayton jackson View Post
    No Gag. transitions will teach him and you....pay attention to your flat work. It is possible to adjust with a Pelham or "more" Bit.., but a clear communication with him, I expect you have not established... too much rush and not enough detail is common. Study the issue and don't correct with hardship.
    Funny "greenie" after 50 years in the saddle nearly everyday.... I guess I am because I am never happy with what I know....understanding there is more to learn..... not to be confused with the Evergreen George M. refers to......



  9. #9
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    IME horses that rush the course aren't given enough forward and leg in the first place. Keep your leg on when your on course
    www.destinationconsensusequus.com
    chaque pas est fait ensemble



  10. #10
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    Dec. 23, 2010
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    Central PA
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  11. #11
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    Sep. 29, 2012
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    There's a thread about Mylers. Sounds like it may work for him. Have you tried tight, verticals in a gymnastic. Something like 1 stride to 1 to 1. Will make him back up and balance or he'll land in the fence.



  12. #12
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    Oct. 14, 2007
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    Pelham is always worth a try.

    (then just read others have suggested that as well)

    I also just read you want to keep the running martingale... then I know I may get flamed for this but use a double twisted wire or single twist (a fixed one not on a loose ring) Maybe a few times to see if horse responds to your hand. I would suggest you have a trainer work with you and your bit choice - having eyes on the ground is always helpful.

    I prefer riding in a bit that the horse softly takes (nice connection to my hands) but listens to when I half halt but if you are truly experiencing a run through your hand a hard bit may have to be used a time or two.

    And learn to administer a great pulley rein.......
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!



  13. #13
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    Mar. 13, 2003
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    I'm not sure what sort of flatwork you do but having a good dressage trainer help you may be the key to it. I've bitted up before, more than a few times, and I've figured out that while that can really work very often it's best in the long run to establish better communication in general.

    My 14 year old TB likes to get very strong, but although I switched to a Myler with hooks for a while he's back in his nathe/duo now (i.e. a totally nothing bit). I went back to basics, doing what I think of as jumper dressage in our flatwork and the diference in his willingness to listen is like night and day. I can canter up to just about anything and ask him to wait, move up, or steady and he doesn't freak out anymore.

    But, hopefully you and your trainer, if you work with one, can come up with a good plan. It's incredibly frustrating to have your spots taken away from you by your horse's last minute decisions to ignore your signals!
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil



  14. #14
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    May. 7, 2012
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    What about a baucher with a waterford mouth?



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    It's incredibly frustrating to have your spots taken away from you by your horse's last minute decisions to ignore your signals!
    Well shoot; that's what has been taking my spots away...LOL
    How people treat you is their KARMA.... how you REACT is yours!


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  16. #16
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    Jan. 6, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    It's incredibly frustrating to have your spots taken away from you by your horse's last minute decisions to ignore your signals!
    IDK but for me, distances are decided from 4/5 strides out not the last two or one. At least that is my experience. It is usually the rider, not the horse losing the distance.

    OP: Try a Pelham or a boucher with a different mouth piece which has been mentioned in another post. A slow twist, waterford, cherry roller, or some mouth piece that will back him off would be my solution if you have exhausted the grids. I personally would try the pelham first though. I like the two reins when working with this issue.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  17. #17
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    Mar. 13, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLeventer View Post
    IDK but for me, distances are decided from 4/5 strides out not the last two or one. At least that is my experience. It is usually the rider, not the horse losing the distance.
    Well, yes- I see them 5 strides out, too. However, I had a project who would lope up to a fence and then bolt the last two strides and ruin the spot. Most of the time it is the rider (getting ahead, choking, gunning, etc.), but not always.
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    Well, yes- I see them 5 strides out, too. However, I had a project who would lope up to a fence and then bolt the last two strides and ruin the spot. Most of the time it is the rider (getting ahead, choking, gunning, etc.), but not always.
    True thought of that after I posted. I've had that horse before. The horse ended up having a rotational fall on xc with his next rider.
    I am on my phone 90% of the time. Please ignore typos, misplaced lower case letters, and the random word butchered by autocowreck.




  19. #19
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    Jun. 8, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by foursocks View Post
    Well, yes- I see them 5 strides out, too. However, I had a project who would lope up to a fence and then bolt the last two strides and ruin the spot. Most of the time it is the rider (getting ahead, choking, gunning, etc.), but not always.
    I had a hunter that was ruined when I loaned her to someone to ride for a few months out of the goodness of my heart. She came back having learned to subtly drop behind your leg on the way to the fence and then grab the bridle right in front of the jump. Horrible ride and it took me an entire year to fix that so I could show her again. I don't know what happened to make her like that but I was glad I could fix it. Wasnt pretty though. I stiffed her over many jumps until she gave up grabbing the bridle and then we had to work on staying up in front of my leg on the approach. Both of these issues make it very hard to get to what you see. Not all things 5 steps out work. Balance, impulsion and straightness have to be there too.
    You don't scare me. I ride a MARE!



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