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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrowneDragon View Post
    A recent study (IIRC) indicated that external moisture (mud, dressings, etc) does very little to soften horn, just the sole (and frog, I'd imagine). I can't recall the exact study and can't get my thehorse.com account to open, but here is a link for you to read it:
    http://www.thehorse.com/articles/297...ration-studied

    My farrier uses a small blow torch on the feet for a few seconds if they are super hard.
    The moisture enters the foot through the sole, and probably just takes time to affect the walls, but moisture does affect the walls too. Otherwise how could you explain why my horses' feet are rock hard in dry weather and softer in wet weather?

    If the farrier is breaking hoof knives he's working on the bottom of the foot anyway.



  2. #42
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    Dec. 13, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2BayPonies View Post
    Can you link me to article(s) regarding this?

    What would constitute regular use? 2x week year round, or less?

    I generally use Rainmaker in the summer months, and once a week generally unless my farrier mentions their feet are extremely dry. I then "try" to use more often, but its a messy business.

    Just looking for clarification so I can discuss with my guy next visit.
    The Horse article linked above is a very good one

    "The study also showed that hoof dressings containing solvents and tar-based components damaged poor-quality horn. In some cases, the intercellular lipids or fats were damaged, allowing water contained within the horn to evaporate, thus causing the horn to become dry and brittle."

    "
    In very wet conditions, using these hoof dressings allows water into the horn, and the feet become very soft and weak."


    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  3. #43
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by BEARCAT View Post
    Why don't you ask your vet and other "well reputed professionals " what they recommend? They are the ones that know your horse and his living conditions.
    You beat me to it. ^2
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Dec. 3, 2002
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    Red face

    My apoplogy JB, I meant to say Ole' Horsewoman, as in all knowing, experienced, omnicient, etc. there is that better? wink.

    I have a young WB w/ rock hard feet and I don't even attempt to trim her until I've moisturized her feet w/ plain water. Sometimes I use soaking boots but mostly I keep a puddle around the water trough or puddle water around her feet while she eats. So yes, I stand corrected on that comment about breaking hoof knives.

    My point I was trying to make was this.... Plain ole water is the cheapest, best, healthiest hoof softener IMO. The OP did say she couldn't wait til summer, perhaps meaning when there's lots of rain to soften the hooves. ???


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  5. #45
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    Much better

    I think the comment about Summer was sarcastic, as in, if they're this hard now ,just wait til Summer.

    I'm curious how feet can be so hard as to break knives in Winter in CT, unless that's not the OP's correct location.

    Summers here can be weeks and weeks of no rain, so rock-hard red clay soil sucking moisture out of feet. I *hate* trimming mine during times like that. I get excited when it does rain, not just for the gardens, but for softer feet LOL
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  6. #46
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    Apr. 2, 2011
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    Best way to get moisture to you horses hooves is through his mouth.


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  7. #47
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    Jan. 6, 2003
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    CT
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    From my last post on, for the most part *that* was the types of discussion I was hoping to embark upon. Thank you!

    Yes, I absolutely woke up on the wrong side of the bed but nobody can negate the 'new' demographic of the "Natural Barefoot Trim" school who think doing nothing is the best and all issues can be solved through a majikal trim alone. Oh, and a speshul feed.

    Don't get me started on bitless bridles.

    FWIW, it's not just one, sole farrier who's breaking knives and it's not just this winter -- yes in CT -- and it's not just this one season.

    I've often wondered about the hoof packing/s vs. topicals. I've always been a fan of Hoofmaker but was cautioned against using such b/c 'it doesnt' soak in enough'. Well, if I"m sitting there for 15 minutes massaging in with my fingers a few times a week, then yes, I'm pretty sure there's a bit of absorption going on. My crappy fingernails testify to it.

    Meanwhile, I've also been cautioned *against* Feibing's hoof oil. Which has been on the market for about a hundred years, but IME only used to make feet pretty before entering the ring.

    Still want to avoid discussing the issue that's being exacerbated by the hardness of the sole/ foot and the inability to pare down bars/ sole, etc. Suffice to say the pressure created by it ain't good. And no, I"m not going to name drop the pros I'm dealing with to appease y'all. Sorry. But I believe in this crew, and it's been a decade of trust being built, and more.

    TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?

    My other old stand by had been Hoof Heal but it does contain venice turpentine or the like. I don't have an ingredient listing in front of me and my memory is fakakked. So, sidebar question: How can these 'emollient' type conditioners who seem to promote themselves as products to create pliability throw that in the ingredient listing and still come up with 'soft'? I'd love to see ratios of how these things are formulated.

    Back to hoof packing: Any Cornucrescene (sp?) vs. Forschner's users out there? Admittedly I've never used either on my personal animals, but have worked for several who swear by them interchangeably to *harden* feet.

    Then again.. good old ichthalmol. Please share your experiences.

    Lastly, What was the purpose of Oakum when using pads? In recent years I'm seeing it less and less and more of silicone, equithane pours, and another newfangled product who's name escapes me..

    Thank you again.



  8. #48
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    Jan. 6, 2003
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    ..and please understand I have my own notions on many of the questions I ask here. I'm asking because I'm curious what other's impressions are.



  9. #49
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    Oct. 28, 2010
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    Thanks, I see that link now, but can't get into my account. I'll try on another computer later

    I think I found the article you referenced above, before I headed out. If I recall it was as study by Wagner & Kempson? Perhaps its the same one on horse.com

    I do appreciate your input :-)






    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    The Horse article linked above is a very good one

    "The study also showed that hoof dressings containing solvents and tar-based components damaged poor-quality horn. In some cases, the intercellular lipids or fats were damaged, allowing water contained within the horn to evaporate, thus causing the horn to become dry and brittle."

    "
    In very wet conditions, using these hoof dressings allows water into the horn, and the feet become very soft and weak."





  10. #50
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    If the horse's soles are too hard to cut, then how is the farrier breaking a hoof knife unless s/he is able to perhaps get the knife started a bit into the sole or bar and is then trying to pry with it. If that's the case, then they are misusing the tool and are endangering themselves, the horse and anyone else who happens to be in the area when that blade breaks. And, they may be using a knife that has been sharpened numerous times and as a result is thinner and narrower and more prone to breaking, especially when used incorrectly. Some skilled farriers will use half round nippers to remove excess sole but if you don't know what you are doing when using them, you can cause a lot of damage in a really short period of time. I've used a small propane torch in the past but here again, if the farrier doesn't know what s/he is doing, the outcome can be rather disappointing and dangerous.
    Sometimes a client will stand their horse in damp sand to get moisture to 'wick' up into the sole a bit. They'll do this the night before an appointment. You might be able to, the night before, bandage a hoof packing product such as Hawthorn's into the feet using a diaper and some duct tape. Standing the horse in some mud may work but has some drawbacks including mess and the fact that as the mud dries it will draw moisture out of the hoof. Standing the horse in water may also help but it usually takes more time than most folks are willing to provide. I'm not much on using power tools such as a grinder unless I know that the horse has already been conditioned to accept the noise and feel of the grinder on its hooves. Nothing like having one jerk a hoof away while that grinder , with an abrasive disc in place, is spinning at 10,000rpm.......


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansena View Post
    Still want to avoid discussing the issue that's being exacerbated by the hardness of the sole/ foot and the inability to pare down bars/ sole, etc. Suffice to say the pressure created by it ain't good.
    Why not provide more information? that is usually a good thing, rather than a negative ...

    And no, I"m not going to name drop the pros I'm dealing with to appease y'all. Sorry. But I believe in this crew, and it's been a decade of trust being built, and more.
    Arrogant much???
    if you believe in this speshul crew, then why post on the internet inviting the opinions of assorted madcap individuals


    TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?
    You're worried about the negative effects of water BUT you'd use Murphy's oil soap!!!
    Among other components, it contains 1-5% NaOH which is ... yup, you guessed, it ... drying ... pH ~ 11

    Also contains EtOH - yup, another one of those little drying irritants

    and hydrogen peroxide (sorry my subscripts are on vacation) - you'll never guess what this stuff does
    (yeah, drying again - I think by now you're beginning to realize why people who love their hardwood floors, won't let the stuff in the same room)

    I could go on sleuthing the ingredients but getting bored now ...

    Back to hoof packing: Any Cornucrescene (sp?) vs. Forschner's users out there? Admittedly I've never used either on my personal animals, but have worked for several who swear by them interchangeably to *harden* feet.
    That'd be Cornucrescine - ask any ole C,D & M aficionado - & obviously my opinion wouldn't even begin to hold against those professionals ...


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Feb. 17, 2008
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    The only time I've ever encountered soles too hard with unsoundness here in New England it's gone hand and hand with metabolic issues/laminitis. The sole produced is plastic-like, hard, and does not exfoliate properly.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolsch View Post
    The only time I've ever encountered soles too hard with unsoundness here in New England it's gone hand and hand with metabolic issues/laminitis. The sole produced is plastic-like, hard, and does not exfoliate properly.
    ^this^

    I can't believe it took 52 responses for someone to mention it



  14. #54
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    Aug. 1, 2002
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    Maybe I need coffee, but I'm not really understanding the OP's posts...

    Even though the hoof is designed to be hard, it can cause a horse to be unsound if hard...

    Putting the horse on a good diet, and trimming the hoof properly, so it can function the way it was made to is just a bunch of hoopla, but smearing goop on it has to work, since it helps fingernails...

    The OP would like advice, but only if it lines up with what she believes in...like using Murphy's Oil....

    Oh, and because most have learned with the times, trials studies etc......horsemanship is dead.

    Did I get the gist of it?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #55
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    ^this^

    I can't believe it took 52 responses for someone to mention it
    Perhaps everyone was waiting for you to chime in..... and at last, someone wearied of waiting.......



  16. #56
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    Some of you are acting like a bunch of harpies and jackals.

    I never said I used Murphys. I asked if anyone had heard of using Murphys.

    I dont' disparage proper trims, proper diet and good exercise & living conditions. Any 'natural barefoot trimmer' I've seen speak in absolutes.. stating all shod horses are tortured and unsound. I never said 'goop' was the majikal bullet, but I wondered out loud the benefits of soaking in water (which further dries with evaporation), vs topical application of various and sundry.

    Lastly, because I choose to keep certain horse's medical conditions confidential, I'm being chastised. Right. So if you have a horse with a treatable medical condition and offer him for sale some 5 years later, the anonymous half-informed harpies will come out of the woodwork and spread rumors about what they THINK they read on some BB and put off any prospective buyers.

    Because reading for comprehension is such a prevalent talent here.



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Perhaps everyone was waiting for you to chime in..... and at last, someone wearied of waiting.......
    I am quite certain most were praising the days and posts that went by without my response.

    It was just becoming incredibly irresponsible reading all of the advice softening the feet and resorting to power tools when no one even asked a question about the metabolic condition of the horse.

    But then again, what could an attorney possibly know about hoof care.



  18. #58
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwalker024 View Post
    Suggestions seem reasonable as well as the questions being asked to try and understand the situation as best as possible. OP not sure why you are so snarky and rude if you didn't want questions or suggestions probably shouldn't ask the question and just stick with your reputable professionals who know your horse.
    Yes, that was my thought too.

    I would imagine while knife breaking "well reputed professional" farrier is under said horse with rock hard lameness causing feet they might say, "Hey Sansena, I think you should try product XYZ on Dobbin's feet. It will really help with this hardness and that will help not only the lameness issue it is causing but make my job a ton easier".

    I know my farrier would do something like that if my horse was having an issue he thought there was something I could be doing to help remedy.



    Quote Originally Posted by Sansena View Post
    TOTALLY cockamaime thought process here: Have you ever heard of using Murphy's oil soap in warm water to help soften/ moisturize?
    Yes.
    Not so sure about using it to moisturize but it was suggested to me to try it when soaking out an abscess.
    No idea if it worked better or worse than anything else but it sure smelled good while I sat there soaking.


    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    It was just becoming incredibly irresponsible reading all of the advice softening the feet and resorting to power tools when no one even asked a question about the metabolic condition of the horse.
    People asked about the horse, they were told it was none of their business. Maybe not that question directly, but general questions were asked.



  19. #59
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    Feb. 28, 2008
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    What the fruitbat is going on here guess I need more coffee too.

    OP, if you are seeking moisturization - as opposed to hydration - then why not explore the use of an actual moisturizer? If I were in your shoes, I would likely go to CVS and get the big tub of the house-brand Eucerin, perhaps a bottle of Vit E oil, or even some of that placenta hair care emollient and try one at a time to see if any results can be had. Hoof wall is basically keratin right? Essentially, *I* would be looking at human moisturizing products (and PLEASE realize that *I* am nobody so take my advice with an enormous grain of salt. Also please realize that I've never needed to moisturize my horses' hooves so I'm just casting ideas into the wind here). I would be staying far away from hoof products (often petroleum based items slip in there which IS drying), and certainly far far away from household cleaning products. My personal favorite moisturizer for my hands and nails is actually straight up olive oil, so I'd probably be trying that too.

    Oakum to my knowledge is a plant based fiber soaked in pine tar or a blend of the like. The purpose was for packing in tight spaces to fill voids and prevent leakage and at the same time, not rot... think shipwrighting. My SO is a plumber who still packs and pours lead and he uses oakum in the fittings to make a watertight seal that will last beyond the apocalypse. The first farrier I ever used packed oakum under my horse's pads. I assume because it was a good packing material that was cheap and wouldn't rot. I impressed my SO early on when we went for a date and I smelled the oakum on him and knew immediately what it was. I loff the smell of oakum. I digress.

    OP - at the risk of getting body slammed for this, oy I need more coffee - I get where you are coming from. There are days I idly consider asking a healthcare question here and then think to myself "do I really feel like baring my horse-keeping soul today to a bunch of strangers suffering from cabin fever, who will revel and delight in examining me under a microscope? ...nah " so I understand bracing for the attack, but you came in on the defense and I think your preemptive strike was a tickle more than required.

    And you would be wise to un-block JB, even if you choose not to converse with her, as she has the deepest well of knowledge and least amount of snark of just about anyone here.

    Good luck with your horse, you are obviously dealing with something quite distressing and it seems to have you on your last nerves. We've all been there. Kudos for you for doing your best for your horse to think outside the box.
    Worry is the biggest enemy of the present. It steals your joy and keeps you very busy doing absolutely nothing at all... it’s like using your imagination to create things you don’t want.


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  20. #60
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    Oh and I came across this, I really do need more coffee as my Spidey senses tell me its pertinent to your needs, but the brain cells aren't warmed up enough yet to fully process it. good luck.
    Worry is the biggest enemy of the present. It steals your joy and keeps you very busy doing absolutely nothing at all... it’s like using your imagination to create things you don’t want.



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