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  1. #1
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    Default Israel to become first Nation to ban horses and donkey drawn vehicles from roads.

    http://www.chai.org.il/en/campaigns/...pr_nov2012.htm

    I often wonder in different regional and economic situations how a ban would seem on one hand adventitious yet on another. If the animals are no longer useful to their owners ..what becomes of them?

    My personal point of view is they are raised to view their livestock differently then you or I. I think organizations like http://www.thebrooke.org/ and http://www.princefluffykareem.com/

    That focus their efforts on education and rehabilitation seem to be the better way to go.

    The organization behind the push to ban http://www.chai.org.il/en/about/about_mission.htm

    Clearly states in their own mission page :
    "We believe that animals do not exist to serve human needs, and we are opposed to the exploitation of animals in all its forms. CHAI and Hakol Chai approach the challenge of reducing animal suffering with concurrent initiatives. Some of these efforts result in abolishing a particular form of abuse, while others result in regulations that reduce abuse through incremental changes. Nevertheless, we believe that all animal exploitation must ultimately be abolished and not merely regulated. "

    Seems vaguely familiar...if I could just put my finger on where I'd heard that before.


    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  2. #2
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    I wonder what will happen to the people that currently earn income by using horse/donkey drawn vehicles. I can't imagine that they will now magically be able to buy a truck and fuel.

    i wonder if this will really pass into law.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!


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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    http://www.chai.org.il/en/campaigns/...pr_nov2012.htm

    I often wonder in different regional and economic situations how a ban would seem on one hand adventitious yet on another. If the animals are no longer useful to their owners ..what becomes of them?

    My personal point of view is they are raised to view their livestock differently then you or I. I think organizations like http://www.thebrooke.org/ and http://www.princefluffykareem.com/

    That focus their efforts on education and rehabilitation seem to be the better way to go.

    The organization behind the push to ban http://www.chai.org.il/en/about/about_mission.htm

    Clearly states in their own mission page :
    "We believe that animals do not exist to serve human needs, and we are opposed to the exploitation of animals in all its forms. CHAI and Hakol Chai approach the challenge of reducing animal suffering with concurrent initiatives. Some of these efforts result in abolishing a particular form of abuse, while others result in regulations that reduce abuse through incremental changes. Nevertheless, we believe that all animal exploitation must ultimately be abolished and not merely regulated. "

    Seems vaguely familiar...if I could just put my finger on where I'd heard that before.


    Lynn, I just put in an email to the Brooke today about this. I will post their response when it arrives.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  4. #4
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    Default

    Maybe that is what the HSUS president was coordinating when he went jet setting all over Europe and other for international conferences on animal rights?

    That source is where you may have heard that misguided idea that animals should be off limits for any human uses, disregarding that we have evolved to be each other's resources in this world.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by CHT View Post
    I wonder what will happen to the people that currently earn income by using horse/donkey drawn vehicles. I can't imagine that they will now magically be able to buy a truck and fuel.

    i wonder if this will really pass into law.
    According to CHAI's sight for whatever their opinion or word is worth :

    ". The ban still needs a signature by a parliamentary committee, but Nina Natelson of CHAI – Concern for Helping Animals in Israel calls that “a formality.” The ban will be the first of its kind in the world."
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  6. #6
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    That's interesting. And of course the ban will negatively impact Arabs the most. I doubt that is a coincidence.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    That's interesting. And of course the ban will negatively impact Arabs the most. I doubt that is a coincidence.
    And that was my very first thought too.


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  8. #8
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    That is going to be very hard for the poorest of the workers. They need their donkeys to help support their families. The Brooke understands this and works to better the lives of these little beasts of burden without ruining the lives of their owners.

    There are literally millions of donkeys out there without a hope of getting help from anyone tho. (sadly).

    Check out the Brooke.org - it is interesting, enlightening, AND they organize amazing rides in far off places.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    That is going to be very hard for the poorest of the workers. They need their donkeys to help support their families. The Brooke understands this and works to better the lives of these little beasts of burden without ruining the lives of their owners.

    There are literally millions of donkeys out there without a hope of getting help from anyone tho. (sadly).

    Check out the Brooke.org - it is interesting, enlightening, AND they organize amazing rides in far off places.
    Just seems so wrong from a humanities point of view to swoop in and take away what in all accounts is a lively hood simply because some feel they are ethically superior.

    Their culture is different they view their little donkeys as a farrier would his hammer not as a pet or a hobby. Yes they are in need of education and encouragement to reform for better husbandry practices. But who are "we" to sit upon our throne and condemn them.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  10. #10
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    All y'all missed it.

    There have been, for many years, efforts to help these folks with education, easier access to veterinary care, help with hoof care and nutrition. In other parts of the world there has been success with simply helping people - rather than forcing our upscale, elitist values on people who often go to bed hungry at night.

    You have to remember that these are extraordinarily poor people who for political reasons have been relegated to the sewers. In so many ways. There is a reason the average resident of that city lives well and drives a nice car, eats in nice restaurants, and has a nice life. And there is a reason the people who own those animals don't look to be in much better condition than their animals.

    Once that ban passes those animals will die. And the people who own those animals will not able to feed their families, much less buy a BMW. We are talking about survival, here. This is a harsh landscape.

    You're catching a glimpse into what it is to be a Palestinian in Israel, and why Hamas is able to recruit members simply by offering people food and shelter.

    I don't support animal abuse, and I would like to see all working animals provided basic care and nutrition, as well as access to veterinary and farrier care. But this is a helluva lot more than simply a group of wealthy elitists cramming their agenda through.

    You're seeing the seeds of terrorism being sown.
    Last edited by JSwan; Feb. 14, 2013 at 03:14 PM.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


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  11. #11
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    There's that Forel gal again.... 4 paragraphs down.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skykingismybaby1 View Post
    And that was my very first thought too.
    Mine as well.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  13. #13
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    JSwan..there have been other groups trying to assist the Palestinian population. They are unable to purchase gas due to restrictions or money and the carts are crucial to their movement of food and goods to the population.

    This is also a way for Israel to "stop the flow" of weapons hidden in carts...so they claim.

    I was very surprised when the U.S. Forein Affairs department became involved in this. They never had before. HSUS have a rep to the current administration on "world'animal care" and she is also very close to the Presidents wife having gone to college with her.

    A move such as this would normally be quietly challenged by the U.S. stating Israel should consider the inevitable hardship on the Pals.

    Very strange when one considers the direction this president has taken which has usually been against Israel in favor of the middle east.

    I wonder if HSUS is going to step into Egypt to have the carriage donkey's removed under a hostile Arab government? When I phoned their H.O. after the overturn of the Egyptian Government and asked HSUS they stated they had not yet formulated a plan. I gave them names and numbers of British citizens who had established donkey help lines but they did not seem to be very interested.

    Diplomats are a little puzzled over this "small" legislation. It is almost as though those supporting it..from outside Israel...are hoping it will create a hardship resulting in uprisings.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post

    This is also a way for Israel to "stop the flow" of weapons hidden in carts...so they claim.
    .
    Well, they would claim that, wouldn't they. Anything to keep those people in penury.

    No - HSUS is not interested in helping animals - it's common knowledge they wouldn't work with other nonprofits trying to help educate owners and help with veterinary care.

    It's always been about the complete abolishment of all human contact with animals - domestic or wild. From the Israeli perspective - this is just another nail in the coffin for Palestinians. A convenient marriage with AR groups to accomplish very different agendas.

    It makes me want to vomit - and I am ashamed to learn that any American had a part in it.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


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  15. #15
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    The issue of Israel is another one of the "third rails" in U.S. politics. This means that we give them lots of money and they don't have to worry about accounting much for how they spend it.

    Katusha rockets weigh in the neighborhood of 90 pounds and are five feet long; you're not going to haul many in a donkey cart.

    Animals in the Third World live a hard life; so do the people there. The Occupied Territories are about as "third world" as it gets.

    So, ban the donkeys...ban the humans...?

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    The issue of Israel is another one of the "third rails" in U.S. politics. This means that we give them lots of money and they don't have to worry about accounting much for how they spend it.

    Katusha rockets weigh in the neighborhood of 90 pounds and are five feet long; you're not going to haul many in a donkey cart.

    Animals in the Third World live a hard life; so do the people there. The Occupied Territories are about as "third world" as it gets.

    So, ban the donkeys...ban the humans...?

    G.
    I suspect "ban the humans" might be the plan.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    I suspect "ban the humans" might be the plan.
    truth. How humane can an organization be when they allow themselves to be used to destroy humanity . Although from a few dealings with their ilk I'm not surprised at all.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  18. #18
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    Lynwood, I was talking about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Were you?
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  19. #19
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    I didn't miss the point at all - but it seemed a hot potato to get involved in discussing the whole situation over there. A lot of innocent, hard working families will be hurt if it goes thru.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Lynwood, I was talking about Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Were you?
    I understand whom you were referring too. My comment was aimed at those organizations who were allowing themselves to be used as a weapon to further destroy each other. I am sure it is not lost on those animal rights groups , the impacts a ban like that might have on the humans affected but as long as their agenda is sated they do not care.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



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