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  1. #241
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    only one testicle descended?



  2. #242
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    Mar. 11, 2005
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    CO
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    4,878

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    Yes, rig = cryptorchid

    But the stallion TC mentions sounds like he had a LOT more reason to be gelded than being a rig. Sure sounds like he should never been intact to begin with.
    "IT'S NOT THE MOUNTAIN WE CONQUER, BUT OURSELVES." SIR EDMUND HILLARYMember of the "Someone Special To Me Serves In The Military" Clique



  3. #243
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    4,360

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    Kenike - he was pretty "usual" for a race stallion that lived his life in segregation and only saw mares when he was expected to jump up on their backs and breed them. The set up at our barn was unlike anything else he had been exposed to, I think - mare across from him in a foaling stall, mares and geldings being led by him in the aisleway - he really needed to decompress in a big way

    He was a decent race stallion - winner of $86,000 before he bowed and retired and he sired many winners in the $50,000 - $100,00 range, 2 in the $150,000 earnings and his top earner was $266,000 so he wasnt a bust by any means I just dont think with what the farm was charging to keep and stand him he was getting enough mares to him for him to pay his way let alone give a ROI to his owner

    Back to the subject at hand ...



  4. #244
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    It would not surprise me at all if she sold Aloha outright, as she always told me she was on the fence about him. I would be VERY surprised if she ever sold RW. I would bet money she still owns him and has leased him out for a year.
    Quite the inside track on what JB is up to LP - again think your involvement makes you less than a disinterested party. Seems you have personal contact with what JB intends?

    JB owes a lot of money to many people - and given her miserable horse environment and bad debts and horse care leading to seizure of some of her horses? I hope the sale of Aloha who "she was on the fence about" since she didn't pay for his stallion inspection and who sadly is not that profoundly talented? I hope the "sale" went to pay of her BILLS and to help MCHS who have had to pay to help the sad cases they found on her "farm" - as for RW? IR and EVA positive - what do you all think caused the latter condition? Whatever - sad sad sad
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    I do not understand all this "they have to make an announcement" !

    Come on: the two stallions are at a good place, well kept for. They are no where in hiding for those who would want to claim them for unpaid bills (Yes convienently across the border, but known place).

    Everyone who wants to know for sure before breeding to them about the status of ownership can wait until it is declared. If not, well just make you decision against it. But I really do not understand why people think it is their right to know details of a business relation ship and a deal between tow people that they do not even know. I agree that sort of information is interesting, but no one has a right to get it, unless you have a claim against Jill.
    If you do not get thids info - just do not give any party you think is involved business. Nothing as easdy as that.
    If I would start thinking about who own which stallion or not in Germany and ask for ownership infp, I could long wait and honestly if I do not get it , I just do not use a stallion of that station. Know a station that likes not to pay what they buy. So from my side certainly no business towards them. Easy enough, and I do not go on the internet and demand they should give an official statement why they did not pay horse A, B or C that they bought at an auction.
    People: get real !
    I appreciate that the stalllions seem to be in good hands carewise and I wonder what is going on with the others still at the farm. Maybe people on this board could use their time to help the other horses or towards those that were cheated in the past. ...
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    http://youtu.be/1O23BeiKpkY


    8 members found this post helpful.

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2008
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    5,492

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    If people aren't suing her for fraud (and it sounds like they really should be doing that), then the next best thing is to boycott her and her affiliates


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #247
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    Sep. 14, 2000
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    Goochland, VA
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    3dogs, get over yourself. As I have said MANY times, I haven't spoken to Jill since July. My comments are based on previous conversations and nothing else. I am sick of your innuendo and accusations when you are no friend, confidant or anything else to us and have absolutely NO knowledge of any of our business. Anyone thinking that this person has any clue at all to our former business with Jill - she doesn't. Not at all. She is a pot stirrer extraordinaire.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #248
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Co
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandra View Post
    People: get real !
    I appreciate that the stalllions seem to be in good hands carewise and I wonder what is going on with the others still at the farm. Maybe people on this board could use their time to help the other horses or towards those that were cheated in the past. ...
    Many people on this board have done just that.

    The questions regarding ownership are legitimate. Some people would breed to those stallions, but only if Jill Burnell was no longer involved with them in any manner. They want to know , very simply, if Jill Burnell owns and will profit from breedings to either of those stallions.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  9. #249
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    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Seriously 3dogs, your agenda is getting in the way of common sense. I wouldn't know Jill from john, have zero interest in sparkly black stallions, and yet that was exactly my suspicion (with exactly zero inside knowledge). We could be wrong, but Vegas wouldn't give us long odds on that bet if Vegas came with more than one neural synapse. And it usually does.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  10. #250
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    Sep. 20, 2002
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    Hannover, Germany
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    Quote Originally Posted by skydy View Post
    Many people on this board have done just that.

    The questions regarding ownership are legitimate. Some people would breed to those stallions, but only if Jill Burnell was no longer involved with them in any manner. They want to know , very simply, if Jill Burnell owns and will profit from breedings to either of those stallions.
    I understand and I think aswell that the questions are o.k. to ask, but what in my opinion is not right is that people think they have a right of knowing. They think that the owners owe them this information.
    I think yes interesting and important information. I also agree for a lot of people the basis of making a decision towards breeding to these two or even other stallions of that station. But I think it is not like "They have to tell" "I have the right to know" that some people post.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    http://youtu.be/1O23BeiKpkY


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #251
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    Aug. 20, 2012
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    Rutland, England, by way of Hawaii
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    174

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    only one testicle descended?
    I've always thought a rig was a gelding with one undescended testicle. That is, a gelding acting very "stalliony" because he's actually got one undescended testicle instead of having "nothing."
    Last edited by RutlandH2O; Feb. 24, 2013 at 07:43 AM. Reason: spelling



  12. #252
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by RutlandH2O View Post
    I've always thought a rig was a gelding with one undescended testicle. That is, a gelding acting very "stalliony" because he's actually got one undescended testicle instead of having "nothing."
    My understanding has always been that a rig was any male horse with an undescended testicle - didn't matter if he had been "gelded" or not.

    As for it being considered genetic - that has always been my understanding also, and the reason dog show judges check for both testicles in male dogs. I also believe some horse breed associations do not allow it - most of the warmblood registries will not approve a stallion with only one testicle, and in fact, some colts get spun out in the stallion selections because they have one that likes to "hide".



  13. #253
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    And regarding the Redwine situation - it appears from comments made here and elsewhere that Ashland is leasing him. But I doubt very seriously JillB is paying one cent for board or upkeep, and if the principals at Ashland were smart, they would not be paying JillB one cent for his lease. My guess is that Ashland is paying all the expenses, and either splitting the income from breeding fees, or, again, if they were smart, keeping all that income themselves. But JillB probably gets as many free breedings as she wants - it will be interesting to see in a couple of years how many foals end up in the USEF database that were born in 2014, sired by Redwine, and bred by JillB/Gray Fox Farm.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexandra View Post
    I understand and I think aswell that the questions are o.k. to ask, but what in my opinion is not right is that people think they have a right of knowing. They think that the owners owe them this information.
    I think yes interesting and important information. I also agree for a lot of people the basis of making a decision towards breeding to these two or even other stallions of that station. But I think it is not like "They have to tell" "I have the right to know" that some people post.
    Technically you are correct. But as so many have pointed out there has been an outpouring of care and concern directed towards this particular situation, close to 30k earned at the auction. Why on earth would you think people are not going to want to know where there funds are going to? It would be ridiculous not to! (for those who would like to breed to RW anyway)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
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    Central Florida
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    4,056

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    They anounced on FB (Redwine's page)

    Yes we are leasing presently but working on buying him
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #256
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    Ontario
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    Can't see the announcement, but good and mostly good luck to them....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #257
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    May. 6, 2007
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    Napanee ON
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  18. #258
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    Aug. 11, 2003
    Location
    Midwest
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    916

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    And here's an interesting observation! As soon as everyone knew the answer to the question, "Do they own him?" you hear nothing but crickets.... No posts since yesterday.

    So there you have it. All people wanted was transparency. And now people can go about making their breeding decisions with information in hand. Problem solved. I think at the end of the day everyone understands that whether someone buys Redwine or leases him, or leases him and then buys him, at some point some cash is going to head in Jill's direction. But at least this way we can all agree the stallions are in better care and better management, and with any luck the Morgans will buy Redwine outright eventually so he'll have a good long-term home.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #259
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    Dec. 27, 2009
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    233

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    I'm the one that posted on the Redwine FB page stating that Jill still owned Redwine. That sparked the "We are leasing but working on buying" comment. I asked after that post if Jill was getting any money, and both my posts got deleted. My opinion is that if they want to stand the stallion, they should be willing to answer these questions. Didn't they know this was coming?!
    What I lack in preparedness I make up for in enthusiasm


    10 members found this post helpful.

  20. #260
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    All the more reason to cross them off the list forever and move on. A person couldn't believe what they said anyway, so why bother asking?


    10 members found this post helpful.

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