[DownYonder]

And yes confirmation Jill still owns Redwine. Now I can get on to choosing another stallion. So much made over a simple question.

I hate to say it, but the fact that Ashland wouldn't confirm they owned him sure pointed to his continued ownership by JillB. And I am not surprised - he is her big moneymaker, and she isn't going to let him go easily. (I had heard through the grapevine she told someone who inquired about purchasing him last year that she wanted 500K for him. Yeah, right...)

[Appsolute]

Well I am still glad that the boys are no longer standing in muddy pens and getting lose / into fights.

But bummed that Jill Burnell will still be making money off of them – while there are so many she has scammed and victimized.

I really hope that people stop funding her activities.

[JB]

Ugh, that really stinks. It's great they are out of there, but some folks were so excited to finally be able to use him because he was out of her hands, and now that's not the case I'm so bummed because he deserves to be *owned* by someone who actually cares about him

[FalseImpression]

I hate to say it, but the fact that Ashland wouldn't confirm they owned him sure pointed to his continued ownership by JillB. And I am not surprised - he is her big moneymaker, and she isn't going to let him go easily. (I had heard ,through the grapevine she told someone who inquired about purchasing him last year that she wanted 500K for him. Yeah, right...)

Yes... and the fact it did say "Standing for the 2013 Season"... If they had bought him, they would have bragged about it. So, are they considered Jill's minions???

[Galileo1998]

If nobody breeds their mares to Redwine then he's not a moneymaker for her. She had such a terrible reputation that very few, if any mare owners were going to go to Jill direct. Now with a change of geography, rather than a change of ownership money still goes into her pot. The only way to stop any Jill connection to these stallions is an outright sale. A sale still gives her money, but it prevents this fiasco from affecting mare owners ever again.

[vineyridge]

Redwine is an EVA Positive stallion, isn't he? Or was that Federalist or Romantic Star? I know one of them was. Doesn't Canada have any import rules on that? Is there no quarantine between Canada and the US? What about the CHSA? Anything on EVA Positive status? Does it have to be disclosed in stallion information on the website?

The way to keep Jill Burnell from making money on her stallions is for people not to use them. And one way to do that is to make sure that people know she still owns Redwine.

Jos, where are you? Did the Ashland guy lie to you when he said he had "purchased" Redwine?

[FalseImpression]

RW is EVA positive and it is disclosed by Ashland as they state on their FB page:: All requests for breeding contracts will be sent an EVA information sheet as well. All we want to do is service our mare owners to the best of our ability."

[Lynnwood]

Perhaps he did not lie so much as show all his cards. It is possible that they have purchased into the stallion half owners /partners /shares who knows. I'm sure they are also aware of the negativity surrounding Jill and perhaps choose to omit the continued connection in an attempt to keep it from affecting bookings for the stallion. Not entirely ethical or honest but I guess the burden as always is on the purchaser.

I am sure there are plenty of mare owners who either have never heard of Jill and her issues or simply assume new location= new owner.

At the very least now it is confirmed and people can make an educated choice about putting money in Jills pocket.

[Jos]

Jos, where are you? Did the Ashland guy lie to you when he said he had "purchased" Redwine?

During the course of the conversation with Paul Morgan (Ashland Farm), he referenced the following points:

• That he had initially been approached to act as agent for the sale of the horses;
• He twice said that he now "owned the horses";
• He referenced possession of a Bill of Sale;
• He told me that it would be acceptable to him if I posted that information on the Internet.

If any of those points are subsequently found to be untrue, then it would be correct to say that he lied to me in making them.

I hope this clarifies the veracity of the conversation, as I see it.

Regards to all,

[melhorse]

Interestingly enough Ashland farms is for sale and has had a little trouble over the past two years keeping things running....

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...ey=-2067531347

I would be very suspect that they own any of these new stallions and are only looking for a cash grab with these "big" names

Red wine looked IR in most of the pictures I have seen, along with a meh show record and EVA positive-I'd never consider him even with his pretty white legs.

[Koniucha]

Ugh, that really stinks. It's great they are out of there, but some folks were so excited to finally be able to use him because he was out of her hands, and now that's not the case I'm so bummed because he deserves to be *owned* by someone who actually cares about him

Well he may be in a better place now, but since Jill still owns him, she can take him back to her own place later on.

[horsenut93136]

Interestingly enough Ashland farms is for sale and has had a little trouble over the past two years keeping things running....

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...ey=-2067531347

I would be very suspect that they own any of these new stallions and are only looking for a cash grab with these "big" names

Red wine looked IR in most of the pictures I have seen, along with a meh show record and EVA positive-I'd never consider him even with his pretty white legs.

Sorry but Ick. I hate the stallion being picked on rather than the people. I love Redwine and when I compare his brief record to a slew of stallions I see out there that don't do a thing, haven't showed and look awful I would choose him in a heartbeat if under a new owner.

[Kenike]

During the course of the conversation with Paul Morgan (Ashland Farm), he referenced the following points:

• That he had initially been approached to act as agent for the sale of the horses;
• He twice said that he now "owned the horses";
• He referenced possession of a Bill of Sale;
• He told me that it would be acceptable to him if I posted that information on the Internet.

If any of those points are subsequently found to be untrue, then it would be correct to say that he lied to me in making them.

I hope this clarifies the veracity of the conversation, as I see it.

Regards to all,

Wait...Ashland AND Pikturesque (or however it's spelled...not looking back right now) both own Aloha? I thought Pikturesque bought him outright and Ashland was only standing him.

More mud...

[Pennywell Bay]

Interestingly enough Ashland farms is for sale and has had a little trouble over the past two years keeping things running....

http://www.realtor.ca/propertyDetail...ey=-2067531347

I would be very suspect that they own any of these new stallions and are only looking for a cash grab with these "big" names

Red wine looked IR in most of the pictures I have seen, along with a meh show record and EVA positive-I'd never consider him even with his pretty white legs.

Troll. Nice first post. This is not about picking on the stallions. Go back under the bridge.

[melhorse]

Sorry not a troll at all! I have been on this site for four years but was away for a few months and can not reactivate my account due to the crazy questions I can never get correct. Much easier to create a new account.

I am entitled to my opinion as much as anyone else

[sid]

Yes, there was discussion about RW being IR (in fact I think I may have started that when pics were posted about a few thousand pages ago). It was very apparent. The fatty, cresty neck and "muffins butt" are so telltale. If other horse in her care were starving, most IRs never look like it unless you look at the ribs...and one couldn't see those in the pics.

My elderly stallion became IR, as did most likely Secretriat and others who fell to laminitis in their senior years, despite the very best of care...I digress.

Personally, I would never breed a stallion that had become IR as it would most likely mean an earlier death from the hormonal stressors (despite the fun for them). At that stage frozen semen would be the best course.

Was RW ever frozen? If not, as popular as he was, I'm surprised that he wasn't or isn't. I digress again.

Just looking out for the horses' best interests, stallion or not...as that was the intention of the beginning of this thread.

If RW is to continue stand, I sure hope those who are standing him understand IR and what a wretched condition it can be and do what is best for the boy.

[3Dogs]

Yes, there was discussion about RW being IR (in fact I think I may have started that when pics were posted about a few thousand pages ago). It was very apparent. The fatty, cresty neck and "muffins butt" are so telltale. If other horse in her care were starving, most IRs never look like it unless you look at the ribs...and one couldn't see those in the pics.

My elderly stallion became IR, as did most likely Secretriat and others who fell to laminitis in their senior years, despite the very best of care...I digress.

Personally, I would never breed a stallion that had become IR as it would most likely mean an earlier death from the hormonal stressors (despite the fun for them). At that stage frozen semen would be the best course.

Was RW ever frozen? If not, as popular as he was, I'm surprised that he wasn't or isn't. I digress again.

Just looking out for the horses' best interests, stallion or not...as that was the intention of the beginning of this thread.

If RW is to continue stand, I sure hope those who are standing him understand IR and what a wretched condition it can be and do what is best for the boy.

Sid - while I don't have any interest in whether RW breeds ever again- I do care that if JB still OWNS the stallion and owes money to a whole lot of people etc etc etc (which is now well known) - that then any monies collected to breed to RW (other than fullfilling poor hoodwinked mare owners who did pay and never got any semen) are NOT sent to JB - where the money goes is key and if Ashland a shill company? Shame on them

[sid]

Agree.

[Deardra75]

Okay I know this isn't on the subject, but may someone can answer the question.. how can leading hunter breeding horse for yearling and 3 year old have unknown sire, yet the sire still gets the points for both horses according to USEF. I find this a little odd.

[DownYonder]

Okay I know this isn't on the subject, but may someone can answer the question.. how can leading hunter breeding horse for yearling and 3 year old have unknown sire, yet the sire still gets the points for both horses according to USEF. I find this a little odd.

I am assuming one of the ones you are talking about is Red Label, who topped the USEF 3 y/o hunter breeding category in 2012 –
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/pointsA...0&section=1903

If you click on Red Label's name on the above document, you get the 2012 horse report for Red Label - which shows him with an "unknown” sire.
http://www.usef.org/_IFrames/Searche...ltsReport.aspx

Now, if you look at the leading sire rankings for hunter breeding, you will see Redwine at the top of the leader board, with 526 points.
http://www.usef.org/documents/points...erBreeding.pdf

If you click on Redwine on the above PDF, you get a list of the horses that contributed to his ranking. They have Red Label listed as contributing 268 points to Redwine – yet Red Label is listed as sired by “unknown”.

So if you knock off the 268 points from Red Label, Redwine’s total points drop to 258, which would actually put him 3rd place in the 2012 rankings – behind Ragtime and Aloha.

And one of the horses shown as contributing to Aloha’s ranking is Arbor Day – who is also listed as being sired by “unknown”.

Perhaps JillB shouldn’t have screwed around with Brandon…