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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Speaking of which what is up with them putting these treats to their mouths to get the dogs to look at them? Are they taste testing for Purina?
    Some handlers store their bait in their mouths because they do not have pockets. It is not terribly unusual. You need somewhere to put it, after all. I don't think I've ever seen a man do it--lucky them, pockets are par for the course in men's suits.

    I did see a handler pull her bait out of her BRA, which is a first for me....

    All of the jiggling going on, though, has inspired me to pick up some Spanx for my puppy's debut this weekend. I'm FAR from the size of some of the handlers I saw on TV, but do have about 10 lbs of holiday weight I haven't been able to shake and I don't want my @$$ distracting the judge. Or for people ringside to be whispering behind their hands!


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  2. #102
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    I cannot help watching some of this because I am nuts about dogs but I do not know why I do because it is always the same these days, the weird little fairly useless dogs get the Best In Show, and I never agree that it is the best dog.
    Oh, I am grumpy because I just woke up. But seriously.

    There are 175 AKC recognized breeds and every one of them has a chance as BIS. Just about everyone walks away disappointed - that is just the nature of dog shows. Why would you agree with the best dog unless you are a BIS judge -- honestly, I couldn't even judge the group my breed belongs to let alone any other group.

    I told my kids they are welcome to "vote" for Best in Group/Show based on the dog *they like* the most but that is not how it works at a real dog show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    If they wanted to do real service to the dogs overall a much bigger deal would be made out of dual champions, herding, hunting, working champions and bench or show dogs. I have little to no use for the little fru fru dogs, not sure how you would showcase a toy's dog talent for the purse or lap.
    This is a conformation show. They only do the conformation part...they can only judge this one thing at this type of show. But you will find your share of breed performance events and believe me, some breed clubs DO make a big deal about them.

    It is only possible for my breed to be inducted into the Hall of Fame with a hunting title (with one notable exception). And our breed nationals are held every year in Arkansas because that is where the field trial grounds are located that are paid by our dues. 2+ weeks of field events at the nationals and ONE day of conformation.

    But..back to the show...I did not watch it all; I couldn't stay up.

    I am happy for Banana Joe and not surprised (although I was rooting for the sporting dog). I am really thrilled for the OES breeder/owner/handlers. What a night!!



  3. #103
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    I hold bait in my mouth. It's hard for me to get it out of my pocket quickly without drawing my dog's attention to my hand/pocket. I always have bait in my pocket, but use a small piece for baiting in the stack and want to be able to grab it quickly; so usually when I enter the ring I put a piece in my mouth....

    So, a lot of factors are necessary in selecting bait. My dog will eat anything, that's the easy part. It can't "dissolve" like cheese; it can't taste very bad; it can't be greasy in my pocket or on my hands, and it can't be too tasty so I want to eat it. Still searching for the elusive perfect bait.



  4. #104
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    Oct. 21, 1999
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    Rochester, NY
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    I enjoyed those two nights of watching. Not knowing anything, I couldn't disagree with what the judges were deciding, though I will say that the only animal that really made me go "oh" was Fifi, the Dobe. She had such incredible presence. I can't say I learned too much, though that isn't supposed to be part of this particular experience, I guess. I did like it when, every once in a while one of the announcers would mention one or two of the standards of the breed.

    I have nothing against Banana Joe, I'm sure he's a lovely dog, but, I wouldn't ever want one. The breed is just not one that appeals to me. Obviously there are different types of dogs for everyone's likes. Even though Fifi was my favorite, I wouldn't want one of them, either, simply because the Dobe is not a dog that would fit my lifestyle.
    Originally Posted by Alagirl
    We just love to shame poor people...when in reality, we are all just peasants.



  5. #105
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    Well, while I did like the Affenpinscher, I am seriously bummed that the Portuguese Water Dog beat that gorgeous - actually breathtaking - Doberman in the group. Judge must be a hard-core Democrat. Or maybe received a bribe from the White House? Seriously, I didn't like the Water dog at all & found that to be a shocking upset. Without the Dobie there, I still would have chosen ANY of the other dogs over that one.

    The Dobie's solid chest, legs, nicely-proportioned head, & straight back (with only a slight slant) looked textbook perfect to me. No narrow-chested, spindly-legged, slanted-back dog here - & they've made it to Westminster before.

    Oh well. At least the Affenpinscher was worthy.


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  6. #106
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    Nov. 29, 2007
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    Virginia
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    When the Wire Fox didn't take the terrier group, I was rooting for the GWP. He is a DOG and I would love to see him working in the field. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous.

    Agree that Fifi is out of this world. One of the best Dobes I've ever seen, not that I'm any Dobe expert by any means.
    "However complicated and remarkable the rest of his life was going to be, it was here now, come to claim him."- JoAnn Mapson


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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg View Post
    Why aren't standard poodles in the sporting group?
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Because they no longer do what they were bred to do?
    I have no doubt they COULD. True, no one uses them in the hunting field anymore. But poodles have retained the brains and ability to do pretty much whatever you want them to do, be it agility or therapy work or hunting. And then you can just wash them off, give them the topiary treatment, and take them to a conformation show. Really remarkable breed.


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  8. #108
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    Mar. 4, 2010
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    Hunting poodles.

    I remember when I got my Afghan hound as a child in 1974, he was half price from the breeder as a "pet quality" dog because he had a small white spot on his chest, and any white disqualified and Afghan from the show ring. Now it seems like they all have a white blaze on their chests.

    I'm interested in Irish Water Spaniels - my grandfather bred and trained them for the field, as well as other field breeds. My mother tells the story about one night during the Depression, when someone came to look at one of my grandfather's Irish Water Spaniels. That night he heard a ruckus from the kennels and went out with his gun. The "buyer" had a long-handled rake and had caught the dog by her collar and was trying to pull her up and over the side of the kennel. My grandfather the cop shot at him and he ran.

    StG


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  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by mg View Post
    Why aren't standard poodles in the sporting group?
    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Because they no longer do what they were bred to do?
    Quote Originally Posted by StGermain View Post
    Too. Freaking. Awesome!
    I suppose I should have researched a bit before my answer to Calamber!


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  10. #110
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    My golden retreiver always shows a deep interest in watching Westminster. He seemed unimpressed by the golden in yesterday's sporting group but was greatly interested in the Irish Red and White Setter. He stood on his hind legs to get a better look at the TV. I did not watch to the end so I don't know if he chose well or not.

    Personally, having once owned a vizsla, the sight of one still makes my heart go pitter patter.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  11. #111
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    Mar. 27, 2008
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    People in my breed are snarking a bit over the Shiba that took the breed. After watching the video today, I can see why he won and I would have picked him too. He was not flashy but had beautiful and CORRECT movement. I think that gets overlooked too often.
    He never put a foot wrong either. So, good choice Mr. Judge.
    You are what you dare.



  12. #112
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    Question - are there "BNHs", or Big Name Handlers (Scott Sommers comes to mind), sort of akin to the BNTs in the horse world? And is there a degree of similar snark and grumbling going on outside the ring, e.g. "That dog only placed first because of the person holding the leash."



  13. #113
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    ^^ Yes.

    I have heard some stores that make you know judges do often favor professionals, or at least certain professionals. On the flip side, a really good handler really can make a dog look totally different. Even sometimes a different professional handler just works better with a dog and makes an "meh" dog look really fabulous. My dog's breeder was just talking about a professional who "dragged that bitch around all last year" and never won anything, then it went to a different handler and is winning like crazy...



  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mara View Post
    Question - are there "BNHs", or Big Name Handlers (Scott Sommers comes to mind), sort of akin to the BNTs in the horse world? And is there a degree of similar snark and grumbling going on outside the ring, e.g. "That dog only placed first because of the person holding the leash."
    Oh absolutely! Dog show people can be really bitchy. There are "face" judges out there who look at the handler rather than the dog. If you are an owner handler you learn who they are and avoid entering under them.

    On another subject, I get really tired of toy dogs being referred to as useless. They were bred to be companions and IMHO, that is a very useful occupation. It would not make sense, for example, for an elderly apartment dweller to have a Border Collie but having a small "useless" toy dog might give her a reason to get out of bed in the morning, a reason to get some exercise, stave off loneliness and depression and actually improve and extend her life. A dog doesn't have to herd or hunt or guard something to be useful, just being a loving companion for someone can be enough. That said, I don't like to see little dogs treated as fashion accessories or babies. They might be small but they are still dogs and should be afforded the dignity of being treated as such.


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  15. #115
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    Oct. 4, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by wireweiners View Post
    On another subject, I get really tired of toy dogs being referred to as useless. They were bred to be companions and IMHO, that is a very useful occupation. It would not make sense, for example, for an elderly apartment dweller to have a Border Collie but having a small "useless" toy dog might give her a reason to get out of bed in the morning, a reason to get some exercise, stave off loneliness and depression and actually improve and extend her life. A dog doesn't have to herd or hunt or guard something to be useful, just being a loving companion for someone can be enough. That said, I don't like to see little dogs treated as fashion accessories or babies. They might be small but they are still dogs and should be afforded the dignity of being treated as such.
    Thank you! I completely agree, and I've never even HAD a small-breed dog.

    My pit bull mix and houndish mutt are also largely "useless" dogs. Just because they're 75 pounds each doesn't make that fact less pertinent!
    In order to think outside the box, one must first know what is in the box.



  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    Seriously, I didn't like the Water dog at all & found that to be a shocking upset.
    What about the PWD adherence to its breed standard did you not like? Where would you fault that dog?


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  17. #117
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    When I was a lot younger, I was stewarding at our local dog show. The judge I was stewarding for asked what breed I had. I told him standard dachshunds. I could tell from his response that he did not care for dachshunds but I will always remember what he said. "One can always appreciate quality even in a breed you do not care for." There are lots of breeds that I would not care to own for one reason or another but I can always appreciate a quality example of any breed.


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  18. #118
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    Default Westminster, dogs, & etc.

    There are a lot of useless dogs out there, toys just are too easily stepped on and broken, besides sitting in someone's lap usually are not treated like a dog but a cosseted toy and suffer as a result. Miniaturization of dogs like Australian Shepherd is an obamanation and is usually weirdly yappy and neurotic. The origin of that herding dog, much to my surprise was decided by the Westminster announcer as California. Did not mention that what used to be called the French Poodle was actually a working dog of German origin.

    As well, a lot of politicking with the "grandeur" and glitz of the show ring and vast sums of money of course is just par for the course. The Affenpinscher I knew was going to win best of show because that was the dog that was pictured on the MSN stories before the start of the show, his owner jetted off to the Netherlands afterwards, and the quality of the Portuguese Water Dog has already been commented upon. This is another breed that seems to have no hunting drive for the most part, and are not water dogs really. I have seen Pits with a better drive than the ones that sprang up because people love imitating the rich and infamous on Bainbridge and many were purchased after you know who made his choice. That did not help a breed that may have been a good dog. I don't know, all I know are the ones I met were particularly stupid, impossible for the owners to control, and had no water drive.

    Of course, there being reductionists among us, anyone making a fair comment about the ridiculousness of this display is accused of being the old Debbie Downer, because, of course, Americans don't like to have fantasies disrupted until it becomes almost too late. I have a great passion for most dogs, but this insanity of long haired dogs with silky coats, the Skye Terrier for instance, having that coat hang to the ground, the overwrought domed headed Irish Setters, and I could go on, just has the normal effect on anyone who really cares about their betterment.

    I wish all of the dogs who worked in one sense or the other, could only win the right to go to Westminster if they also won significant points or championships in what they were bred to do. That would help a lot in weeding out neurotic dogs but it still makes me sad to see a great working dog like the so called Australian Heeler, otherwise known in Australia as the Queensland Heeler, hauled around those rings, all of the jerking, yanking and pulling is pretty sad to see also. I certainly have the right to express what I think of it, as do others have the right to swoon. I confess, I swooned over the gorgeous male Chesapeake Bay Retriever, a genuinely handsome, well put together and happy dog, with a good handler who did not have to spit out food in their hand to catch his attention. I find that pretty gross but does show to go why treat training is not such a hot idea.


    By the way StG, thank you so much for the link to the hunting poodles. I am so glad some people are reviving that quality in those wonderful dogs. I am totally infatuated with Irish Water Spaniels but have not succeeded in finding a breeder near enough to me, when I am ready to have another dog, I will hunt up the hunting poodle breeders...wow. On another note, when I was a child (a long time ago) I read a story about an Irish Water Spaniel, and a swimming test or episode in the story where the dog had to swim a great length along a sea wall in heavy surf. That is all I can remember of the story, do you know it?
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
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  19. #119
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    Um, Calamber, I know Pres. Obama gets blamed for a lot of things but exactly what did he have to do with breeding down Australian Shepherds to a miniature variety? BTW, miniature Australian Shepherds are not recognized by AKC. The rest of your post makes absolutely no sense.


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  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    and the quality of the Portuguese Water Dog has already been commented upon.
    Um, by whom, exactly? Two people who don't show dogs said they didn't like it; a couple others admitted it was an upset.

    Apparently there are a few judges who quite liked it over the last 3 months:

    Greater Ocala Dog Club 11/18/2012 B/G1
    Savannah Kennel Club 11/29/2012 B/G3
    Beaufort Kennel Club, 11/30/2012 B/G1/RBIS
    Beaufort Kennel Club, 12/01/2012 B/G1/RBIS
    Savannah Kennel Club 12/02/2012 B/G1/BIS
    Greater Hickory Kennel 12/07/2012 B
    Forsyth Kennel Club, Inc. 12/08/2012 B/G1
    Forsyth Kennel Club, Inc. 12/09/2012 B/G2
    Greater Daytona Dog 01/05/2013 B/G1
    Greater Daytona Dog 01/06/2013 B/G1
    Northern Neck Kennel 01/09/2013 B
    Northern Neck Kennel 01/10/2013 B
    Greater Fredericksburg 01/11/2013 B/G3
    Greater Fredericksburg 01/12/2013 B/G2
    Chesapeake Kennel 01/13/2013 B
    Annapolis Kennel Club 01/17/2013 B/G4
    Carroll Kennel Club 01/18/2013 OS
    Carroll Kennel Club 01/19/2013 B
    Annapolis Kennel Club 01/20/2013 B/G3
    Middle Peninsula Kennel 01/26/2013 B/G1
    Middle Peninsula Kennel 01/27/2013 B/G1/BIS
    Westminster Kennel C 02/11/2013 B/G1

    ETA: the more I look at the show records of her and the Doberman, I don't think it was actually that much of an upset. She wasn't a "nobody" that's for sure.
    Last edited by S1969; Feb. 13, 2013 at 05:28 PM.



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