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  1. #261
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    Mar. 24, 2012
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    The cult members worship the parellis. I had a parelli boarder who was off the wall in her infatuation with Linda Parelli. She spent several thousand dollars just to go to Florida and AUDIT LPs clinic re the secret of contact! Like LP had the corner on that! SHe could have signed up to actually participate in a clinic with LP's mentor, WAZ for a fraction of that price.

    While here, Parelli boarder (PB) spent all her time trying to get horse to lead and so on. HUH? Seriously, the horse was FINE to lead for me - very easy- but PB could not lead her horse from A to B. . I led the horse every day with absolutely no problems and without figuring out her left brain introvert whatever...lol.. PB now has a blog where she writes essays on basic stuff like leading which include analysing her horse's emotions when she tries to lead her. She also could not load her horse on the trailer despite yrs of parelli.

    When she left here , she hired a Parelli trainer who spun her horse in tiny circles and into a sweat for 4 hours - excellent technique!

    Funny that my horses load and lead without ever being analysed re rt brain left brain carrot sticks or spinning in tiny circles for 4 hours . lol.

    A fool and her money are soon parted., there is a sucker born every minute, etc etc..

    .


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #262
    Join Date
    May. 20, 2005
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    Desert Southwest
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    6,253

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    , mp!

    There's hope for Skally.

    Eclectic Horseman, you rock!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #263
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2011
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    1,188

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    I had the exact same experience with a boarder as Crockpot..I could have written that..It was ten years ago, and the same people the boarder still hangs with are still doing the exact same thing...lol


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #264
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Spotsylvania, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFFarm View Post
    Never said she was a dressage trainer? I suggest reading the title of this new one:
    PS. Actually some nice riders. At least she has the sense to have Hess in charge. But boy, how her attitude about dressage has changed. All gushy about 100 years of the training scale.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2aL...RvbUb-XioKh6SE
    I watched the first 10 minutes of this video and once you get past the introduction it's not bad. Nothing new i would pay money for though. But Hess is having the rider do what LP should have told the rider to do in the Calming the "Hot Horse" clip on the dressage summit page. Obviously this was filmed prior to the Dressage Summit....did she forget what she was supposed to learn?
    Last edited by carolprudm; Feb. 21, 2013 at 01:55 PM.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #265
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    Feb. 26, 2008
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    753

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    Amazing, so many pages of bickering and nothing constructive.

    How about discussing concepts, vs individual's failings. I bet even if Edward Gal was to instruct some of those on here, they would be no more successful at applying his teaching to real life then the Parelli followers are of following Parelli's advice or example correctly.

    Concepts then. What do you think of the use of "disengage" the hindquarters as a way to teach a horse to stop? IMO, not useful for dressage where we want the horse to use hind end, even in the stopping.
    Horses should be trained in such a way that they not only love their riders, but look forward to the time they are with them.
    ~ Xenophon, 350 B.C.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #266
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2010
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    Land of Enchantment
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    780

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    Quote Originally Posted by mzm farm View Post
    Amazing, so many pages of bickering and nothing constructive.

    How about discussing concepts, vs individual's failings. I bet even if Edward Gal was to instruct some of those on here, they would be no more successful at applying his teaching to real life then the Parelli followers are of following Parelli's advice or example correctly.

    Concepts then. What do you think of the use of "disengage" the hindquarters as a way to teach a horse to stop? IMO, not useful for dressage where we want the horse to use hind end, even in the stopping.
    I know mzm, right ?? Oh and totally agree - horsey's hind end must remain engaged all the time for it to be an effective "engine". But this change in conversation will make this thread very boring. OK carry on


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #267
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    May. 20, 2005
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    Desert Southwest
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    Well, the thread started out with a perfectly fine question.

    I spent plenty of time and money attending the WDM and the WDFNA and missed the FEI Trainer's Conference -- I can't afford to do everything and don't want to be away from my aging Dad for more than a week.

    I had little to no interest in attending the Parelli event, but was interested in feedback. Evidently, very few who attended post here.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #268
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    Hunterdon County NJ
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzm farm View Post

    Concepts then. What do you think of the use of "disengage" the hindquarters as a way to teach a horse to stop? IMO, not useful for dressage where we want the horse to use hind end, even in the stopping.
    I can speak to this directly.

    1) Disengage HQ is a great, great tool.
    2) Many amateur, one-ride-per-day riders are sorely in need of great tools. Heck, even good, functional tools.

    Where I am, too often people are over horsed. "Engagement of the HQ" is all great and lovely, but what creates huge amounts of frustration, fear, and thus MUCH distrust/disrespect in the horse, is fearful riders. Riders who have a heart attack when the horse scoots off because the feed truck just parked outside, etc.

    Too many people attempt the more advanced elements of riding, ie engagement, straightness, schwung, etc, when they are not capable of riding from point A to point B in the first place. They want to write novels when they are not competent at the alphabet. They want to plot a flight plan for the space shuttle even though they know nothing about flying.

    I see far, far, FAR too many people who are frozen, terrified, and frustrated because they attempt 'horse ballet,' when they cannot accomplish horse 'walk in a line between two points.'

    Few people would crash a 5' oxer over and over and over again. But many, many people will beat, yank, scream and pull their way past a scary spot in the arena with absolutely no success. Often destroying their own confidence and the horse's in the process.


    This is why PP and others have found an eager audience. There are plenty of people for whom 'drive and bend' have not been successful strategies for solving their problems.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  9. #269
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Quote Originally Posted by fairtheewell View Post
    I had the exact same experience with a boarder as Crockpot..I could have written that..It was ten years ago, and the same people the boarder still hangs with are still doing the exact same thing...lol
    Ditto! pb I knew never actually sat on her horse. NEver rode.
    The horse hated her, Pinned his ears whenever she was around him.
    If that does not speak volumes, He was fine for everyone else, compliant and pleasant. The worst thing was, She hired another trainer who rode the horse and really did great with him. Nice mover etc. She was annoyed that the woman did so well and fired her after a month, She had taken a few basic lessons by then, but was really a dead beginner. She finally sold the horse to a VERY happy person. I heard she got out of horses!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #270
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
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    4,011

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    We removed a post and replies to it that referenced a professional's personal life.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  11. #271
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    Oct. 15, 2007
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    the heartland
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    I liked the video and probably won't make it through this thread. I think they were trying to do something different along the lines of elevating the horses part in the partnership of dressage. The horse at the end stretching his head and softening was inspiring. I want my horses to be enthused when we ride.
    Quote Originally Posted by NOMIOMI1 View Post


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #272
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    Dec. 23, 2010
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    79

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    What I see more and more, and not just with the Parelli's, is the idea that the horse is the one that needs fixing not the rider or handler. In the Contact Game video, why do you think the horse is stiff in its neck and back? Because the RIDER is sitting behind the motion with no base of support. If I had that weight slapping down on my back I'd be stiff too. But we live in the era of the quick fix and no one wants to hear that it takes years to learn how to ride with an independent seat and aids. These trainers offer nothing more than a quick fix. Unfortunately when the trainer is "finished" training the horse and the rider starts riding it again, the issues eventually return requiring more fixing by the trainer.

    If your horse isn't doing what you are asking it to do always ask yourself what you are doing wrong that is causing the problem.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  13. #273
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    70

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    Just for some historical perspective. In the 1850s, there was a fellow named Dennis Magner. He was famous for curing and taming vicious and wild horses, and fixing runaway buggy horses and work horses prevalent in the day. He eventually went about finding the most "untamable" and infamous horses in various counties and would put up a tent, and people would pay to come see him work. He was the real deal, and got results. He even drove horses without a bridle, just a little rope, to prove a point. He was the basis for the character in Walter Farely's "The Horse Tamer"
    At the same time there was a fellow named Rarey. Rarey had some money behind him, a benifactor, who made him famous. Rarey even went to England and performed in front of the Queen. (sound familiar). But Rarey was a sham. The taming of a famous stallion was staged, for the sake of the show. Even so, nobody has heard much of Magner, except Walter Farly. Rarey was credited with most of what Magner did. The US Cavalry layed horses down for combat, and called it, Rareifying your horse. This was all in the later half of the nineteenth century. There is nothing new about money and fame versus something true and meaningful. Money and fame seem to win everytime.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #274
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2006
    Location
    NoVa
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    224

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    I was there. Thank you to everyone that has commented - it motivated me to finally sitdown and type up my notes....here you go :-)

    Day 1
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...-building.html

    Day 2
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...advancing.html

    Day 3
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...-applying.html

    My overall thoughts, and some fun Wellington pics
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...ge-summit.html


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #275
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2006
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    3,505

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    Shall the thing is at a dressage clinic you expect to work on actual dresage. Look at the fact that you are advanced and on an advanced horse. A clinician could say 'Its good to do a few minutes of half seat and loose rein" but to show mostly only this? I could have had a jumper trainer advise me or a pleasure trainer to go around flopping the reins but where the real meat of dressage is riding all of the gazzillion movements at that level.

    My own thought is that Id just wasted money either paying to lope around on a loose rein or I just wasted money watching an upper level rider lope around on a loose rein.

    Its not wrong but perhaps a clinic should show dressage movements since its a dressage clinic?
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #276
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2006
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    NoVa
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    224

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    Maybe you didn't read through all of them? That was one or two comments from one hour long session.



  17. #277
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    Jul. 14, 2003
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    MA
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    6,102

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    I agree with NOMIOMI1-

    the notes show that they were instructing on basic riding concepts that would be common to every discipline. Where did they discuss collection? Impulsion? Shoulder In? Travers? Renvers? Half Pass, etc. etc. etc. Gymnasticizing the horse for strength and balance. Anything?

    Those things are what make dressage dressage, as apart from just basic riding instruction.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #278
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    70

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpymeister View Post
    I was there. Thank you to everyone that has commented - it motivated me to finally sitdown and type up my notes....here you go :-)

    Day 1
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...-building.html

    Day 2
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...advancing.html

    Day 3
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...-applying.html

    My overall thoughts, and some fun Wellington pics
    http://twobitsovercoffee.blogspot.co...ge-summit.html
    Well, that was helpful to read. I noticed that all the really good inspiring stuff came from everyone else but Linda and Pat. They somehow regurgitate what has all ready been said, and don't say it as well, but try to be clever saying it.
    The only thing Pat brings to the table, is that a lot of upper level riding have never seen just regular ol' western colt breaking done with any tact. But it's just cowboy 101. There is nothing really remarkable about it. He presents it as remarkable, and has invented all kinds of ways to describe ordinary things as extra ordinary, because he is Pat.
    But it is flawed. One example of this, his is insistence that you allow a horse to make a full mistake before you can correct him. Pat is all about correction, and correcting bad behaviors that a problem horse has learned. He is all over that. For a guy who supposedly was a student of Ray Hunt, a claim which isn't really true, he has missed the point that you can help a horse stay out of trouble, by heading things off before they get started, by paying attention to detail, so that you don't need to keep correcting him.Ray would never purposefully allow a horse to be wrong. Pat teaches people that the reins are to "give your horse a speeding ticket". Really. This is suppose to inspire us to achieve a higher form of connection through the reins with a horse? I could go on....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #279
    Join Date
    Jun. 13, 2001
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    usa
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    ".....his is insistence that you allow a horse to make a full mistake before you can correct him. Pat is all about correction, and correcting bad behaviors that a problem horse has learned. He is all over that. For a guy who supposedly was a student of Ray Hunt, a claim which isn't really true, he has missed the point that you can help a horse stay out of trouble, by heading things off before they get started, by paying attention to detail, so that you don't need to keep correcting him."

    INDEED. Horses are best trained by directing responses to say yes, not setting them up for failure.
    I.D.E.A. yoda


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #280
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2006
    Location
    NoVa
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    224

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    Glad this is helpful to some. Again, this was not a seminar focused on "improving the half-pass," or "how to teach tempis," etc....the title's of the three days were Building a Solid Foundation, Advancing Through the Levels, and Applying the Foundation to Competition....it was a broader focus on the goals of classical horsemanship, not a "how to" seminar. There was a very strong focus on the scale of training (rhythm, relaxation, contact, impulsion, straightness, collection) throughout the entire event, so yes, they did speak on those a LOT. Everything that came out of each clinician's mouth could have absolutely applied to any one that wanted to improve as a rider, regardless of discipline. (and there was a session on schooling Grand Prix that I missed unfortunately to catch my plane )



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