[CFFarm]

Sigh....perhaps 7HL will enlighten us. I've never understood WHY, if the goal was to ask the horse to back up, they didn't tap the horse on the chest with the "carrot stick" the man was holding. The horse clearly thought that raising his head was the correct response to the rope waving under his chin.

LOL. You nailed it. And in the "game of contact" video she taught the rider how to ride the head and the horse how to "root the reins".

I could never figure out what LP had against using her voice more with the half blind horse. The simple word "back" with a touch on the chest can do wonders. No rope wiggling needed. Especially in regard to a horse with limited eye sight. I guess her toolbox isn't as big as she thinks.

[Eclectic Horseman]

. I guess her toolbox isn't as big as she thinks.

Not nearly as big as her ego.

[merrygoround]

[QUOTE=horsehand;6847324]I am not a PNH fan at all. I despise the "rope wigglers' he has created.
That being said, I find "torture" a rather exaggerated claim. If I look at the videos as no-biased as I can, I see the point of the exercise was;
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A-Then you are smarter than the rest of us

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how do you get a horse who has learned to walk all over you and pay no attention to you to pay attention and not do that?
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A--Not by wiggling a rope in his face. The horses I've know that would walk all over you would continue to walk right over you.

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And my answer is; it all depends, and there are a lot of ways that could be accomplished. The horse made some changes, but I thought most of what she did necessary.
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A---Only if you know no better. Her tool box is barren.

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It is the insistence on one particular technique, the rope wiggling technique, and the inability to adjust to fit the situation. I would hope what the owner got out of that was, just don't let your horse walk all over you, its not good. But instead, I assume he will just end up being another rope wiggler. The horse was bothered and harassed until he changed, there wasn't much feel going on, but ugly is hardly torture.
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A---I saw no change!!
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As to the "contact game", (and I hesitate to give LP any credibility) I actually liked the analogy of holding hands. But then, I try to look for the good, in horses and people.[/QUOTE
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A---Her "accomplished rider" and my idea of an accomplished rider diverge. I think she needs to turn that tub right side up.

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[skydy]

Yeah right.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIjDkqkNXFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhE1YIT3zAY

Honestly, it's been so long since I have watched that horror, masquerading as training, "natural" or otherwise, (I couldn't get past the rope flapping at the horse's head) that I had forgotten just how unpleasant and ridiculous it is.

That poor saint of a horse,trying to figure out what the hell his handler wanted.

I did mention (see post 213) my feelings about the ignore list.

I really try not to "ignore" anyone (even if I disagree with their opinions 100% of the time) I think it's a good thing to listen to the perspectives of others,who have opposing views.

It really takes consistent, ignorant, negative, and hostile posting for me to "pull the plug". So far there are only two that I have found unbearable.

skallywag; "too blinded (sic) to see?"

[skallywag]

I've noticed that any time the PP followers/believers are confronted with the PP video's they get defensive and leave. Is there any wonder why.

Still here.. I too dislike the video of lack of proper rope handling skills displayed and coaching on the video with the big bay horse... No horse should have gone through that.. You need to get firm when necessary but stop when necessary too... Its timing and in the feel... that was not displayed there.. That video is a thumbs down from me..

But let me be clear.. I've practiced PNH for several years and have seen wonderful things being taught in the polite and positive way for horses and humans....
I dont expect to convince any of you to think they way I do... I hope I receive the same respect from you...

[Retropony]

Interesting. I went to watch the video of LP riding and my computer was misbehaving so it was like slow motion and it was so obvious how badly she was pulling with her hands in the rising trot, it was ridiculous.

[alibi_18]

Still here.. I too dislike the video of lack of proper rope handling skills displayed and coaching on the video with the big bay horse... No horse should have gone through that.. You need to get firm when necessary but stop when necessary too... Its timing and in the feel... that was not displayed there.. That video is a thumbs down from me...

So why are you advocating for the PP?!?

What Linda does in that video is what she promotes and does on a regular basis.

Most here don't really care about NH practices in general. What we don't like are the Parellis in particular.

Do you think Linda has more skills in riding and teaching dressage? NO. She has no feel, not much timing and clearly lack of experience.

[skallywag]

I have NEVER seen Linda do this in such a harsh manner in any other video.. and I've seen a LOT of them and I've watched her in person etc....
She does NOT teach Dressage, no one including her, ever said she did..
Like I said, I ve been in PNH for years have seen many, many wonderful things and this bad example is not the whole deal... I do PNH and have never had to go that extreme with a horse, nor would I ever... I do believe you need to get firm when needed, but know when to stop...
That said, I can tell all of you I have also watched horrible dressage riders with heavy hands go flopping around tugging and pulling,
and trainers do some not so impressive things with horses as well..

So respectively, let's agree to DISAGREE .... I am fully aware how the people on this forum feel about NH and frankly, well, lets just leave it there....

This is a forum for horse people, as far as I know it's open for all disciplines and philosophies ... I hope there is respect.. So far, not so much on both sides !

You do your horsemanship your way, I will do mine my way.. Enjoy your horses and I will enjoy mine! . The game of trying to convince either side is a no win.... Just resorts to a lot of name calling and insults and it's ridiculous!

[Frizzle]

I don't think anyone here is "anti-NH." Many have commented that they have learned from people like Ray Hunt, Tom Dorrance, Buck Branaman, etc. It's just that most people here don't buy what the Parellis are selling, for the videos posted as well as many others.

And, when Linda is "instructing" dressage riders, claiming she invented this whole "contact" thing, etc., she most definitely is claiming to be a teacher/authority in dressage. Heck, the one video from the summit showed her "teaching" JJ Tate! So, can you see how people think that's ludicrous, given the fact that LP has zero dressage credentials? I haven't seen name calling, etc. for the most part, just people pointing out how absurd the Parellis' new schtick is.

[alicen]

She does NOT teach Dressage, no one including her, ever said she did..

New Parelli promotional video: In which LP utilizes dressage language and terms w/o speaking directly about dressage and does, very subtly (6:05), offer a disclaimer to her teaching that discipline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFIHq...oKh6SE&index=2 . A fascinating study in marketing.

[Graureiter]

New Parelli promotional video: In which LP utilizes dressage language and terms w/o speaking directly about dressage and does, very subtly (6:05), offer a disclaimer to her teaching that discipline. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFIHq...oKh6SE&index=2 . A fascinating study in marketing.

That last sentence summs it up.

[Graureiter]

[CFFarm]

Never said she was a dressage trainer? I suggest reading the title of this new one:
PS. Actually some nice riders. At least she has the sense to have Hess in charge. But boy, how her attitude about dressage has changed. All gushy about 100 years of the training scale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L2aL...RvbUb-XioKh6SE

[carolprudm]

I have NEVER seen Linda do this in such a harsh manner in any other video.. and I've seen a LOT of them and I've watched her in person etc....
She does NOT teach Dressage, no one including her, ever said she did..
Like I said, I ve been in PNH for years have seen many, many wonderful things and this bad example is not the whole deal... I do PNH and have never had to go that extreme with a horse, nor would I ever... I do believe you need to get firm when needed, but know when to stop...
That said, I can tell all of you I have also watched horrible dressage riders with heavy hands go flopping around tugging and pulling,
and trainers do some not so impressive things with horses as well..

So respectively, let's agree to DISAGREE .... I am fully aware how the people on this forum feel about NH and frankly, well, lets just leave it there....

This is a forum for horse people, as far as I know it's open for all disciplines and philosophies ... I hope there is respect.. So far, not so much on both sides !

You do your horsemanship your way, I will do mine my way.. Enjoy your horses and I will enjoy mine! . The game of trying to convince either side is a no win.... Just resorts to a lot of name calling and insults and it's ridiculous!

AFAIK every trace of it has been pulled rom the internet but have you ever seen the "thunk" video of LP and the gray arab?

You may enjoy this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueprRcH5B4

[Eclectic Horseman]

This is a forum for horse people, as far as I know it's open for all disciplines and philosophies ...

Not really. This is the DRESSAGE forum. You may be thinking of the "Off Course" forum on this board.

[CrotchetyDQ]

She never has stated nor implied she is a Dressage Instructor...

Linda Parelli is doing more than implying she is a dressage trainer by simply attaching her name to an event entitled 'Global Dressage Summit' and using their marketing machine to produce and sell videos on the training scale!

On a side note, the 'Motivating the Lazy Horse Using Psychology' video is, ummmm, interesting. Who is picking these video clips? They are not particularly flattering . . .

[mp]

Still here.. I too dislike the video of lack of proper rope handling skills displayed and coaching on the video with the big bay horse... No horse should have gone through that.. You need to get firm when necessary but stop when necessary too... Its timing and in the feel... that was not displayed there.. That video is a thumbs down from me..

But let me be clear.. I've practiced PNH for several years and have seen wonderful things being taught in the polite and positive way for horses and humans....
I dont expect to convince any of you to think they way I do... I hope I receive the same respect from you...

It sounds like you've used the NH methods from the Parellis to build on your foundation of knowledge. And that's how good horsemen/women look at EVERY training method.

Unfortunately, that sets you apart from a lot of the people I've seen using NH -- including Linda Parelli. Because you can't use games or forumulas to handle horses properly. You don't just follow a recipe and *voil!a* trained horse. That's just not how it works.

But talking to people about feel and timing and how to adjust their approach to the individual horse doesn't sell DVDs or fill the seats at huge arenas or pay for world tours.

So the Parellis keep repackaging their formulas and overpromising to green/naive horse people who don't know any better. THAT is what people on this forum find offensive, especially when they start in on dressage, which Mr. and Mrs. Parelli bashed FOR YEARS.

Not really. This is the DRESSAGE forum. You may be thinking of the "Off Course" forum on this board.

Eh. There's no sign on the door saying "if you don't wear white breeches, STAY OUT." I used to read this forum (and occasionally post) before I got bitten by the dressage bug.

Besides, there are plenty of "dressage" people here who talk the talk, but they certainly don't ride the stride, if you know what I mean and I think you do.

[Eclectic Horseman]

Eh. There's no sign on the door saying "if you don't wear white breeches, STAY OUT." I used to read this forum (and occasionally post) before I got bitten by the dressage bug.

Besides, there are plenty of "dressage" people here who talk the talk, but they certainly don't ride the stride, if you know what I mean and I think you do.

I agree. Anybody is welcome to come to the dressage forum and read and post.

But if you come to a DRESSAGE board and start prostheletizing about some other discipline, be prepared to get spanked. Because that's like a Roman Catholic going to a Mormon church and telling the Mormons that they really need to study the Catholic faith and keep an open mind because they might "learn something."

[dotneko]

I agree. Anybody is welcome to come to the dressage forum and read and post.

But if you come to a DRESSAGE board and start prostheletizing about some other discipline, be prepared to get spanked. Because that's like a Roman Catholic going to a Mormon church and telling the Mormons that they really need to study the Catholic faith and keep an open mind because they might "learn something."

OK -You owe me a new keyboard. Best reply evah!

[mp]

I agree. Anybody is welcome to come to the dressage forum and read and post.

But if you come to a DRESSAGE board and start prostheletizing about some other discipline, be prepared to get spanked. Because that's like a Roman Catholic going to a Mormon church and telling the Mormons that they really need to study the Catholic faith and keep an open mind because they might "learn something."

I already made that point to skallywag, She has agreed that Mrs. Parelli is a ham-handed goob in the one-eyed horse vid. So no need to be rude, IMO.

That puts SW way ahead of a certain poster whose screen name includes a number, and who will, under no circumstances, concede that the Parellis are ever wrong. (Please note, three figs, I DIDN'T say the name).

If we don't scare skally off, maybe s/he'll come over completely to the dark side. Stranger things have happened.