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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    Skally, "natural" techniques have been around for centuries. The P's have simply found a way to repackage and market -- and have dumbed it down for the first-time inexperienced or fearful horse owner. They cannot teach "feel" if a person doesn't have it. A person who lacks "feel" will work the horse through the majikal "games" without understanding when enough is enough and it's time to go on to something else.

    I've watched good trainers have to fix problems created by NH practices. Horses that will not take positive contact with the bit, horses that are chronically behind the aids, for instance.

    Pat Parelli is a joke even among Western disciplines. He's all hat, no cattle.

    Before you accuse me of having a closed mind, I've audited clinics and presentations by Parelli-accredited instructors, Monty Roberts and others. I asked a highly-regarded Western trainer here in Colorado for help with one of my horses. My coach used the same fellow for issues with her horse, too.

    I am perfectly capable of winnowing the wheat from the chaff as far as "NH" techniques are concerned.
    Amen, figs.

    Pat Parelli is a good hand with a horse. But he is first and foremost a showman. Nothing wrong with that. But selling the notion that you -- yes, YOU, Ms. first-time, middle-aged female horse owner who is scared of her horse -- can master the techniques by purchasing these DVDs and buying my equipment is just pure BS.

    And as proof, I give you Mrs. Parelli as exhibit A. Despite many years with her husband as a mentor AND working with Walter Zettl AND riding very nice horses, she has improved ... about as much as I have. And I work full-time, ride a nice (but NOT particularly well-suited for dressage) horse 3Xs a week (if I'm lucky) and take lessons when I can.

    skallywag, you can puff all you want about the convergence of Parelli/NH and classical dressage. But that's just what it is -- more puffery, suited only to their target audience, which I described above.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    4 members found this post helpful.

  2. #182
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    I liken it to the inter relationship marriages.. Not accepted at first but now it is..and so will come to pass the Classical Dressage and Natural Horsemanship technique..
    Don't be afraid of it..

    There are many, many seasoned horse men and women who have embraced Natural horsemanship...Parelli invent this?? Of course not... But he has produced a way to bring it to light for the novice as as well as the seasoned horse lover,rider, competitors., and the lists goes on.. Of course, I know this is not accepted by many of you, but it is true.....

    Continue on with the train wreck.... It does make for an entertaining day....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #183
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Skally: one thing you can't learn from a DVD is feel. Your posts demonstrate this perfectly.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #184
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    May. 20, 2005
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    I find it very interesting that you evidently do not ride -- at least you have not admitted whether or not you "do dressage". So I think you are another 7HL, simply here to poke sticks at dressage devotees -- who have done nothing to deserve your abuse.

    Go play some games with your horse, why don'tcha.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  5. #185
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    Sep. 18, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    I liken it to the inter relationship marriages.. Not accepted at first but now it is..and so will come to pass the Classical Dressage and Natural Horsemanship technique..
    Don't be afraid of it..
    Comparing an equine marketing scheme to the struggle for civil rights ... really? I mean REALLY???? Talk about a skewed perspective.

    There are many, many seasoned horse men and women who have embraced Natural horsemanship...Parelli invent this?? Of course not... But he has produced a way to bring it to light for the novice as as well as the seasoned horse lover,rider, competitors., and the lists goes on..
    And where do you think Mrs. Parelli fits in on that continuum of expertise? Just curious ...
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    I liken it to the inter relationship marriages.. Not accepted at first but now it is..and so will come to pass the Classical Dressage and Natural Horsemanship technique..
    Don't be afraid of it..

    Quote Originally Posted by mp View Post
    Comparing an equine marketing scheme to the struggle for civil rights ... really? I mean REALLY???? Talk about a skewed perspective...


    This^^ Merci, MP

    Oh and Skallywag -
    I am in an "inter relationship marriage" although I would actually, more correctly, call it "interracial marriage" if that is what you indeed intended to say. And I found that comment to be a little over the top but due your other comments, not surprising...

    BTW - Skally, what is an "inter relationship marraige" is it a marriage with many other outside relationships going on??
    If you will permit me to say - you really live up to your screen name


    2 members found this post helpful.

  7. #187
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    Aug. 25, 2007
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    "Natural Horsemanship" is an oxymoron, like "jumbo shrimp" or "reality TV." As soon as the human puts a fence around the horse and/or a halter and leadshank on them they are no longer in a "natural" environment.

    Indeed, we spend a great amount of time removing the "natural" response of the horse to all sorts of situations. In "nature" when a horse gets spooked it runs. In "nature" it's always in a herd. In the human world we want the horse to never spook or, if it does, "spook in place" so we can calm it. We work hard to create a "spook free environment" and supplement that with "sacking out." We work hard to make the human it's herd mate, and, more importantly, its superior herd mate.

    Put another way, we spend a LOT of time using training to overcome nature.

    This does not mean we don't use the horse's nature when it helps us. If you want to introduce a green horse to scary situation (like gunbreaking for Mounted Shooting) having one or more broke horses is a brilliant approach. As "fear" can spread, so can "calm."

    Here's a fine example of the Parelli approach to horsemanship (please, watch the whole thing; the example will be very clear):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RviRADnyFPs

    Get the connection?!?!?!

    The Parelli Faithful are never going to accept that their Prophet is somehow flawed. We humans all share a "religious" tendency and it manifests itself in different ways. Sometimes those ways are benign and sometimes not.

    The "bottom line" for me is that I can learn a whole lot more than Parelli can ever offer from a bunch of different sources for a lot less money than I'd pay with him. If folks want to enter his world and have the spare change to do so then God Bless 'Em. But don't expect the rest of the world to don the "rose colored glasses" that are standard issue in Parelliland.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #188
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    Aug. 19, 2009
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    It sure doesn't take much to rattle your Tiaras...


    And yes, I intended to refer it to "interracial" relationship.. Sorry I confused you..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    It sure doesn't take much to rattle your Tiaras...


    And yes, I intended to refer it to "interracial" relationship.. Sorry I confused you..
    We weren't confused, just amused
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    It sure doesn't take much to rattle your Tiaras...


    And yes, I intended to refer it to "interracial" relationship.. Sorry I confused you..
    No confusion. Despite the garbled term, your meaning was clear. It's just a wildly inappropriate comparison.

    Note to Three Figs -- I didn't get an answer to my question, either. But I bet we can both guess the answers ...
    Last edited by mp; Feb. 19, 2013 at 02:21 PM. Reason: edited to keep it factual :)
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #191
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    In the game of cat and mouse, "skallywag" does not make a very rewarding mouse.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #192
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    Dec. 13, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeFigs View Post
    I find it very interesting that you evidently do not ride -- at least you have not admitted whether or not you "do dressage". So I think you are another 7HL, simply here to poke sticks at dressage devotees -- who have done nothing to deserve your abuse.

    Go play some games with your horse, why don'tcha.
    When someone doesn't agree with your posts you call it abuse?

    MOST if NOT ALL posting did not attend. The whole tread is filled with DQs posting anti-Parelli rhetoric. I question whether many of you are just week-end hackers with a few ribbons. That doesn't make you an expert on anything.

    Many who attended enjoyed the experience. Many that went, attended with some preconceived ideas on what were they getting into. Many of them left having a great time. NO ONE is forcing anyone to use Parelli techniques.

    Get over it. Many people do play games with their horses. We also ride and enjoy our equine partners.



  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by LarkspurCO View Post
    ... Prepare to be assimilated ...

    It's unfortunate that you are so insecure and lacking in your horsemanship that you feel the need to come here and taunt others. Why not go forth and prosthelytize where the clueless will be more receptive?
    Pot calling the kettle black.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  14. #194
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    Oct. 13, 2006
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    I personally want it to be illegal for them to work with anything hotter than a 2 on the scale.

    They are border line abusive to anything with an active mind above a stand still.

    I feel sorry for everthing they get ahold of that is athletic beyond a jog.

    If it doesnt stare at them from across the round pen for hours I want it to be literally illegal for them to touch it.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #195
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    It sure doesn't take much to rattle your Tiaras...


    And yes, I intended to refer it to "interracial" relationship.. Sorry I confused you..
    Sorry! you have the wrong end of the stick as to whose mental state is one of confusion.

    Bye, Bye!!!
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #196
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    Aug. 19, 2009
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    No, I do not ride Dressage....I can't afford it..I truly appreciate those of you who do...honestly! I have watched spellbound at Leslie Morse, Steffan Peters and Jan Ebeling, amoung others ....it's a beautiful discipline...

    But because I don't ride it, does it mean I don't appreciate it and the beauty of it? Nor do I dare have the right to express what I feel is good.. Such blindness is all that comes from many of you..

    I guess because I don't ride THIS disipiline, it means I can't view it appropriately..another closed minded view...

    I have been with horses since 1968.... Many miles of trails, many hours of riding lessons, many shows, many hours of just wanting to be with horses ... Just like the rest of you..no different. My path lead to the Parelli method, about 4 years ago. I wasn't looking for it nor any other clinician to follow. Friends took me to a Horse Expo and that's where I saw the Parelli team... I enjoyed it and decided to pursue it... My current horse, who's 12, I have had since he was 6... A Rugged Lark Grandson... He is not, nor ever has been a troubled or problem horse.. He is my partner, my joy...

    It's not, nor should it be about "who's done what and how much with horses.." It's not about trying to convince people to do this or that.. It was simply bringing to light something occurring in the Dressage world that was happening...and like all other threads, whenever Parelli is mentioned the feathers are ruffled and insults begin... For whatever insults I stated or implied, to any of you, my apologies..

    I was not the OP of this thread..


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #197
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    Feb. 23, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by skallywag View Post
    No, I do not ride Dressage....I can't afford it..
    Dressage DVD's are a whole lot cheaper than Parelli

    Try anything by Jane Savoie or this book http://www.amazon.com/Build-Better-A...f=pd_sim_mov_1
    and the associated DVD's though they are hard to find
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #198
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    Here's my take on the "calming a Hot Horse" video http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=...type=3&theater

    Linda has the rider turning the horse in small circles until the horse is forced to slow down or fall over...notice how he is off balance and leaning in. I really wouldn't have called him a hot horse

    Other people can comment what they would do but here are my thoughts.

    Post the trot you want. When you sit on a tense horse you tend to make him more tense. If you want to slow the rhythm post high and slow. Rhythm brings relaxation, the bottom of the training scale. The horse isn't going to relax if he is off balance. Forget the circles for now, mostly straight lines with a constant rhythm, followed by shallow serpentines
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #199
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    Sep. 18, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    MOST if NOT ALL posting did not attend. The whole tread is filled with DQs posting anti-Parelli rhetoric. I question whether many of you are just week-end hackers with a few ribbons. That doesn't make you an expert on anything.

    Many who attended enjoyed the experience. Many that went, attended with some preconceived ideas on what were they getting into. Many of them left having a great time.
    $5 will get you $10 that skallawag wasn't there either, 7. Were you?

    But that doesn't stop skallawag from being sure that NH and dressage are on a path of epic convergence. And the upshot will be that those of us who ride dressage but don't believe the Parellis are the next coming of Xenophonn will be forced to eat our words, left in the dust of the new age of NH dressage.

    skallawag, you don't have to tell anyone what you do or don't do with horses. If the Parelli methods have helped you, that's great. As long as the horse isn't harmed, everyone is free to enjoy his horse experience in his own way.

    But please don't make pronouncements about dressage and how the Parellis are revolutionizing it. I've watched enough of Mrs. Parelli's videos and her riding to know better.

    FYI -- riding dressage isn't any more expensive than other disciplines. Lessons are about the same price as other ones I've taken. Going to recognized shows is pricey, but there are much less expensive alternatives to that, too. Besides, you don't have to show to ride dressage.
    __________________________
    "... if you think i'm MAD, today, of all days,
    the best day in ten years,
    you are SORELY MISTAKEN, MY LITTLE ANCHOVY."


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by mp View Post
    $5 will get you $10 that skallawag wasn't there either, 7. Were you?
    .
    NO I was not. Had friends that went. Also had fellow boarder where I a at go, that is not using Parelli, but enjoyed ALL the presentations. You might be surprised what you can learn if you keep an open mind.



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