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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2012
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    169

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    Thank you for all the wonderful feedback...and yes I did use an alter because I was afraid of getting bashed. lol. I now have had 3 dogs of the same breed. The first one I bought as a potential show dog but we decided not to move forward with him. But he was the best ever and since I've gotten two rescues.

    I show both the rescues in obedience and agility. Well actually one does both and the other is doing rally because she's not liking the agility. At any rate, I did'nt start either dog as puppies and its been challenging to say the least to re train them as they both had some issues that came wiht them. One had a ton of issues and he's still a challenge at the age of 8ish...

    So...I really want to start with a puppy. I'm older now and have the land/setup for dogs whereas before I didn't. That said, my breed has a ridiculous coat that requires a ton of care. I love, love, love my dogs, but I know with my farm I will never be able to keep them in show coat for the conformation ring. And I'm not sure if someone would give me a breeding bitch to show in agility and obedience.

    I don't know what to do now. I love my breed, but have honestly thought of other breeds ... have even thought of the Jack Russells, but I'm hesitant on them. Another thought has been the Shiloh Shepherds, however, I know a breeder of shilohs and they are not agility dogs...at.all. Border Collies are not the breed for me and I'm not sure about the Aussie's. We have some Jack Russells in my kennel club that are awesome, and I love other peoples' JRT's... but really need to do some more homework.

    I just love my dogs... but I don't want to be in the showring for them. Have no problem wiht all the testing, etc. And I already am into all the training...

    So...that is where I'm at. It will be awhile before I get a breeding bitch if I decide to venture down that road... first I want to find out if there is another breed I can actually show in the ring and be as passionate about as the one I have now. Then I'll decide what to do about breeding with some homework...



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2012
    Posts
    107

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    I used to raise one litter of Labs per year. Highly desired bloodlines and careful thought to breeding choice. I worked closely with my vet to assure excellent care of my momma, and that all pre breeding inspections were done. I produced certifications from doggie Opthamologist, Radiology, and Veterinary School as to the suitability of my momma for breeding. I was a member of two breed associations, and carefully followed the guidelines. I insisted that any purchaser provide a home I approved of and was someone I thought would be good to my puppy.

    Puppies were delivered in my mud room. I was present for the birth of all but one puppy. Everyone was cuddled petted and loved. Socialized ++++ with multiple children and visitors in a very busy home. Momma of excellent temper. Wanted nothing more than people fussing over her children, and would sit proudly beside people as she showed them off. I too was proud of what we were doing.

    I stopped after the rude comments of one client. She had brought her family to our home. Visited with and agreed to purchase. In their presence I marked the puppy with quick dry nailpolish. Arrangements were made for pickup date.

    I released no puppy without well puppy visit/shots. Of course, the morning of the vet visit, snowstorm from hell. Puppies were to go home the next day. I had worked nights, vet appt. for 9. I couldn't get to the house, so left my car running on the sideroad. Snow to my knees. With a sled and three trips I took the puppies to the car. Same trip getting home.

    That evening, when confirming time of arrival (wanted everyone to have their own time) one purchaser indicated that she did not believe that the puppy had been vet inspected as "you puppy mill people fake the certificates". She also told me she did not believe she would get the puppy they had chosen. (Five puppies three male two female marked with nailpolish hmmmm thought I had that covered)

    Puppy mill ???? Faking health status???? I have never been so insulted in my life. I think I cried for about two hours. That puppy still lives with me.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
    Posts
    2,896

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    To the OP, there are more than a few breeders out there that will place a retired show dog that they are not going to use for breeding at reduced cost, or maybe they want to place one of two littermates that they kept for free with a litter back or such. It never hurts to ask. If you are thinking of getting into the showring with a different breed, and its not your real passion, I would search for one that is on the mid to lower end of show popularity. Many of these breeds are finished more easily by owner handlers..For example in the herding group, austrailian cattle dogs are much easier to owner handle than Aussies or G. Sheps. In the working group boxers, dobes are much harder to finish owner handled than say a Tibetan Mastiff..Do some research at the shows and find out the point schedule for breeds you may like. Avoid those that need say 32 animals for a major...Look for ones that require from say 4-10..This tells you that they are less popular for showing and in general so the need to hire a professional is far less. If you have any specific questions you can PM me.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,501

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    Quote Originally Posted by altermetoday View Post
    So...that is where I'm at. It will be awhile before I get a breeding bitch if I decide to venture down that road... first I want to find out if there is another breed I can actually show in the ring and be as passionate about as the one I have now. Then I'll decide what to do about breeding with some homework...
    If you are looking at other breeds where owners can handle successfully in the ring, that helps focus your thoughts. There are some breeds that are commonly owner-handled, and some that are rarely owner-handled.

    As for breeding, I think that if you start working with a new breed, most breeders will tell you not to breed (anytime soon). The learning curve is pretty steep, in my opinion - I have had three of my breed, shown two, and have a really nice young dog now. But I still don't really *get* the ins and outs of selecting for breeding - my dog's breeder tells me why this bitch and that dog would be great together and I don't see it. I'm sure I *could* if I tried very hard, but I feel like I'd be very likely to end up with a litter or two that did not meet my expectations...not sure I'm ready (after 15 years)...and maybe never will be.

    However, owning a nice dog (v. breeding bitch) is sort of a good thing - I can show my dog and have fun with him; and if he's really good and others think he's worthy, I can vicariously enjoy the thrill of breeding without the full responsibility of the outcome (of course I would take care in who I would allow my dog to be bred to - but if it was someone I knew and respected, I would be willing to trust them.) That might be a happy medium for you also.

    Maybe other people can recommend breeds that would be fun to consider as an owner/handler. I have Brittanys and they are great dogs - often owner/handled, excel in all types of performance events (field, agility, obedience), don't have too much coat to have to protect (obviously a show dog does require grooming, but many dogs will show in the ring and the field on the same weekend).

    Here's my boy:

    http://s165.beta.photobucket.com/use...vt=email_share


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,485

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    I am proud to say that I show and breed Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and am an AKC Breeder of Merit. I always have a waiting list for puppies and love every minute of showing, caring for, loving on and breeding my dogs.

    I am also very active in the local Cavalier club in the Houston area and do also support several local dog rescues and always have in house at least a couple of dogs I am fostering for those rescues. I feel it is important to help the less fortunate dogs.

    www.sonestacavaliers.com
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Oct. 15, 2001
    Posts
    4,708

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    For the OP- we bought our corgi from a breeder who tests her dogs for health issues, but does not show them. She breeds for good temperament/health/hardiness. The pups are all raised in her house, handled by her kids, and incredibly well-socialized.

    Our dog is the absolute love of our lives, and pretty much universally adored by everyone who meets her. Judging by the comments/posts on the breeder's facebook page (including the people who have come back to her for second and third pups), it seems to be a pretty common experience among those who get pups from her.

    I know that "serious breeders" insist that breeders should show dogs to championships, blah blah blah before breeding, and I can understand where they are coming from. But by the same token, look at what has happened to German Shepherds that are shown (and win) in conformation. They are total freaks, and don't at all resemble the lovely working dogs we had when I was growing up (dad was a k-9 police officer).


    3 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    4,501

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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
    I know that "serious breeders" insist that breeders should show dogs to championships, blah blah blah before breeding, and I can understand where they are coming from. But by the same token, look at what has happened to German Shepherds that are shown (and win) in conformation. They are total freaks, and don't at all resemble the lovely working dogs we had when I was growing up (dad was a k-9 police officer).
    These are two different issues. Whether you like the way a certain breed has evolved doesn't have anything to do with being a good breeder or not.

    I know quite a few good, established, breeders who have used non-champion dogs in their breeding program. There are often good reasons to use a dog despite not having a specific title, depending on the purpose of the litter.

    The problem is when "breeders" routinely use non-champion/untitled animals because it's cheaper than attaining the title, because the dogs are incapable of attaining the title, and/or their buyers don't care anyway because they don't know anything about the breed (but maybe like the looks). That's when a "breeder" becomes a backyard breeder/puppy mill breeder in my book.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    1,945

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    Having spent the last 3 days whelping a bitch and looking after a sick newborn puppy only to lose it this morning, it's not for the faint of heart. It was my friend's bitch and I was there to help her with the delivery. We are all a little heartbroken.
    Riding the winds of change

    Heeling NRG Aussies
    Like us on facebook!



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
    Location
    Full time in Delhi, NY!
    Posts
    6,397

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    Quote Originally Posted by saje View Post
    Well then, since Luna is the third dog I've bought from them, I hope I've given her breeders a measure of satisfaction Heaven knows I think the world of the dogs I've had from them!
    On behalf of Luna's breeders, I can tell you they are THRILLED to have you as a puppy owner. I purchased my young bitch from quality breeders in MA and I can tell you they are thrilled with every accomplishment and are over the moon that we keep in touch. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    31,890

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    Quote Originally Posted by paintedpony View Post
    I used to raise one litter of Labs per year. Highly desired bloodlines and careful thought to breeding choice. I worked closely with my vet to assure excellent care of my momma, and that all pre breeding inspections were done. I produced certifications from doggie Opthamologist, Radiology, and Veterinary School as to the suitability of my momma for breeding. I was a member of two breed associations, and carefully followed the guidelines. I insisted that any purchaser provide a home I approved of and was someone I thought would be good to my puppy.

    Puppies were delivered in my mud room. I was present for the birth of all but one puppy. Everyone was cuddled petted and loved. Socialized ++++ with multiple children and visitors in a very busy home. Momma of excellent temper. Wanted nothing more than people fussing over her children, and would sit proudly beside people as she showed them off. I too was proud of what we were doing.

    I stopped after the rude comments of one client. She had brought her family to our home. Visited with and agreed to purchase. In their presence I marked the puppy with quick dry nailpolish. Arrangements were made for pickup date.

    I released no puppy without well puppy visit/shots. Of course, the morning of the vet visit, snowstorm from hell. Puppies were to go home the next day. I had worked nights, vet appt. for 9. I couldn't get to the house, so left my car running on the sideroad. Snow to my knees. With a sled and three trips I took the puppies to the car. Same trip getting home.

    That evening, when confirming time of arrival (wanted everyone to have their own time) one purchaser indicated that she did not believe that the puppy had been vet inspected as "you puppy mill people fake the certificates". She also told me she did not believe she would get the puppy they had chosen. (Five puppies three male two female marked with nailpolish hmmmm thought I had that covered)

    Puppy mill ???? Faking health status???? I have never been so insulted in my life. I think I cried for about two hours. That puppy still lives with me.
    you dodged a bullet there, but one twit can derail you?

    be glad she did that before she had the pup!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jun. 20, 2000
    Location
    Full time in Delhi, NY!
    Posts
    6,397

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    Quote Originally Posted by altermetoday View Post
    I don't know what to do now. I love my breed, but have honestly thought of other breeds ... have even thought of the Jack Russells, but I'm hesitant on them. .... We have some Jack Russells in my kennel club that are awesome, and I love other peoples' JRT's... but really need to do some more homework.
    The JRTCA can help you rule the breed in or out. Go to www.therealjackrussell.com and check out the link for the Jack Russell Profiler.

    Keep in mind there are now THREE distinct breeds of JRTs: the original JRTCA Jack Russell, the AKC Parson Russell Terrier and the AKC Russell Terrier. While you can now participate in Performance events with your AKC dogs, the JRTCA offers all events at one location, as opposed to Earth Dog trials, Lure Coursing, and Obedience at separate locations on different days (not always but usually).

    Of course, I'm biased, but unless you're in an area where there are few JRTCA trials your best bet is going JRTCA. Because if your puppy grows over 12.5" it can still show as an "over". Doesn't grow over 12.5"? You can show it as "under". With the AKC if your Russell goes over 12.5 you've got nothing (except an incorrect dog). If your Parson doesn't hit 12.5, you don't have a Russell, you have a DQ'd Parson.

    It is true that either a JRTCA or a Parson is DQ'd if they go over 15" but most reputable breeders keep a close eye on height in the pedigree.
    ~Kryswyn~ Always look on the bright side of life, de doo, de doo de doo de doo
    Check out my Kryswyn JRTs on Facebook

    "Life is merrier with a terrier!"



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2012
    Posts
    107

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    I read my post again, and think I painted a very negative picture. There is also the joy.

    The jou of hearing your baby made CH. or got their WC.

    I had a very little girl bring me 6 cents in her sweaty little hand so she could buy her dog. (I still see Daisy Dog at baseball games.)

    Families who telephone hoping I will start to breed again as they want a new pup before their senior passes.

    Most of all, I own two beautiful, faithful adorable loving girls.



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2011
    Posts
    825

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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    If you go into ownership wanting a nice, healthy dog for a pet with the potential for showing/breeding, you will be much happier than if you go into it hoping for a breeding quality dog. Even the most fantastic breedings don't always produce fabulous show quality puppies, and even in the same litter quality can be different. (I say, as the owner of a breeders "pick of the litter" puppy that grew 3" over the breed standard -- never showed once, but has been a great pet for almost 12 years....!)

    You'll have fun showing her and then you'll know whether she's breeding quality or not. It's way too early to even speculate, except for the fact that you're planning not to spay her so you can show. Are you planning to handle her yourself? Good luck!
    If we show I will show her myself. What is the fun in just watching?
    We are that way about the horses too. I will get help but the joy is in doing the showing yourself.
    If she never wins that is fine, I love the breed and will be happy with whatever we do.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2005
    Location
    Mass.
    Posts
    6,634

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    I spent months looking when I was trying to find a corgi puppy. The Northeast corgi breeders are GOOD. Not one had an active litter that hadn't been pre-sold, and the ones that had litters only bred once a year, at the most. Tribble's breeder in Maryland bred only for show - she has champions on both sides for four generations. I lucked out with Tribble because she has white all the way around one eye - a "defect"! Her breeder insisted that I drive to Maryland to meet her when Trib was about 7 weeks old, to make sure that I met with her approval. Then of course I had to come back to pick her up when she was 12 weeks. I was so impressed by her care for her dogs. She sadly passed away less than two years after I got Tribble. She was a wonderful lady.
    Good breeders are jewels.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2012
    Posts
    169

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    Actually I've looked at your website Sonesta and your breed is intriguing to me as well. Can you tell I'm all over the place? I think I really need to decide if I care about the agility ring as much as I have in the past. My one girl is doing rally and I'm enjoying that.

    I am just unsure if I want a dog that is "on" all the time which is why I've ruled out the border collies. And I think JRT's may be similar in a way. My first choice are the standard poodles, but no way for the show ring. I think I'd really like to just breed a nice parti standard for home, obedience and/or agility.

    Obviously I have more to think about!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2003
    Posts
    2,638

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    Quote Originally Posted by altermetoday View Post
    Actually I've looked at your website Sonesta and your breed is intriguing to me as well. Can you tell I'm all over the place? I think I really need to decide if I care about the agility ring as much as I have in the past. My one girl is doing rally and I'm enjoying that.

    I am just unsure if I want a dog that is "on" all the time which is why I've ruled out the border collies. And I think JRT's may be similar in a way. My first choice are the standard poodles, but no way for the show ring. I think I'd really like to just breed a nice parti standard for home, obedience and/or agility.

    Obviously I have more to think about!

    I know quite a few Cavaliers with Agility titles and know several people who compete their Cavaliers in Rally, Obedience and Agility.

    My dogs would do well in Agility. Willie finished his AKC Grand Champion title and I took him out not very long afterwards and got his RN in a weekend and a half - Cavaliers are very trainable dogs.
    Don't tell me about what you can't do. That's boring. Show me what you can do. - Mom



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