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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    What I'm wondering is what will happen when the BNR/Ts of today who started in long format and were trained by the Old Cavalry Guys all push up daisies?
    How many centuries of knowledge will be lost?
    Ummm, none. There are those of us under 50 who can actually, you know, learn and read and contain knowledge...

    I'd actually be happy if eventing was out from under the IOC's interests, so I hope for that.

    Wish I could offer some insight on EKG's and horses, DW. We sometimes have a similar problem with PIT (microchip) tagging some types of animals -- if the animal has a larger body mass or the tag migrates, we might not pick it up with the reader. Is it possible for the rider to have say, an armband receiver that collects data from the transmitter so it can then be "dumped" at the end so you wouldn't have to have a zillion computers along the way? Not a live feed unless, OH OH, you then get the rider's device to tap into the cell towers and stream the data for you! Why, you're welcome! ROFL.



  2. #142
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    I think we could just use satellite surveillance and we're all set.

    Having a receiver can be done in a number of ways--you can buckle that onto the saddle, the rider, whatever. It is the transmitter that is problematic--having a pure, clean, interpretable (noise free and accurate) EKG signal is vital. And being able to pick up this clear, pristine signal from a galloping, sweaty, hairy thing whose heart lies buried in a mass of bone and muscle surrounded by tack, a rider's leg and a pair of front legs . . . daunting.

    The implantable recorder is not going to go anywhere once it's put in--it can be sutured down. The challenges are:

    a) coping with the movement of a galloping horse
    b) putting it in a spot that will maximize the EKG signal (needs to be very close to the heart) without it being in the way of the girth or the rider's leg
    c) it is a minor surgical procedure, with small but measurable risk of infection, etc.
    d) there has to be a means of interrogating/downloading the data, which requires another instrument. Fortunately it need not be "on hand" as the device has a memory, but still it's adding complexity.
    e) comfort for the horse. The thing is about the size of my little finger and has to sit under the skin.
    f) it has to be removed when one is done with it
    g) and finally, it will only tell us about one thing: the cardiac rhythm. It would tell us virtually nothing about an aortic rupture or pulmonary hemorrhage. So it's only attacking one part of the puzzle. But it's still going to happen if I can put the pieces together.
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  3. #143
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    Aug. 14, 2000
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    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
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    18,567

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    You may believe that, but it's very difficult for knowledge (oral, particularly) to be passed down intact and correctly. The game of gossip is a good example of that; and errors inevitably appear over time in just about everything. I'm no expert, but it's possible for scientists to calculate time from genetic changes which just happen. I think people who deal with manuscripts face much the same problem. In fact, it seems to be a principle that governs existence. The more transmission points, the higher the risk of breakage/error.

    When something like long format conditioning isn't considered useful anymore, it tends not to be transmitted either orally or in new publications. Which is one reason that I hope the world continues to be literate and to publish things in book format. The digital world is very evanescent; instant editing and deletion are all too common. Records aren't records at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by wildlifer View Post
    Ummm, none. There are those of us under 50 who can actually, you know, learn and read and contain knowledge...

    I'd actually be happy if eventing was out from under the IOC's interests, so I hope for that.

    Wish I could offer some insight on EKG's and horses, DW. We sometimes have a similar problem with PIT (microchip) tagging some types of animals -- if the animal has a larger body mass or the tag migrates, we might not pick it up with the reader. Is it possible for the rider to have say, an armband receiver that collects data from the transmitter so it can then be "dumped" at the end so you wouldn't have to have a zillion computers along the way? Not a live feed unless, OH OH, you then get the rider's device to tap into the cell towers and stream the data for you! Why, you're welcome! ROFL.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  4. #144
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    When something like long format conditioning isn't considered useful anymore, it tends not to be transmitted either orally or in new publications
    If it is no longer relevant, then the likelihood exists that conditioning techniques will no longer EVOLVE or IMPROVE, either. That is as bad as losing old knowledge--the obsolescence retards the accumulation of NEW knowledge.
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  5. #145
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    Sep. 13, 2002
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    Azle, Teh-has
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    I'm another eventer in the "Yes" department.

    At one point I thought I wanted to be an [UL] rider.
    After running just a few prelims I easily decided that I love Training and Prelim.

    This latest accident breaks my heart just like all the others. Just like the trailer accident that took so many horses from the Pollards.

    But I won't stop eventing and I won't stop trailering.

    I will also add that my horse has now had a week off because he strained a hing leg saving us from what was a near rotational fall. We were cantering around the pasture.

    He was two shakes from a rotational fall. He went down to his head. I'm pretty sure he pulled something during the save.
    All I can remember when I was looking down at the ground with the reins yanked form my hands was "OMG--if there is anyone watching they are about to see and I-Witness Video"
    http://kaboomeventing.com/
    http://kaboomeventing.blogspot.com/
    Horses are amazing athletes and make no mistake -- they are the stars of the show!



  6. #146
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    Aug. 19, 2012
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    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    finally, it will only tell us about one thing: the cardiac rhythm. It would tell us virtually nothing about an aortic rupture or pulmonary hemorrhage. So it's only attacking one part of the puzzle. But it's still going to happen if I can put the pieces together.
    I think it will be very useful to have information on the horse's cardiac rhythm during the exertion demanded by eventing. I know very little about equine cardiology myself ... Has anything like long QT syndrome ever been identified in the horse? Will we someday be doing screening EKGs as part of a prepurchase exam?



  7. #147
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    I don't know if LQTS has been described in horses, but there are people on the case, I believe. There is all kinds of stuff on AF, and horses can do some rather distressing things with their heart rates during AF. Since this isn't at all uncommon, it's one avenue to explore.

    As to a screening EKG for prepurchase, unless there is discovered a LQTS type of disorder, I'd put that in the same column as screening stress tests for healthy young adults: virtually useless.
    Click here before you buy.


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