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  1. #101
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2006
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    Spooner, WI
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    2,387

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    Without getting into the details, I saw a report on the news from my neighboring state, MN. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...o-buy-15-guns/

    There are plenty of mentally ill folks out there that should not have access to guns. They are not/never have been criminals until they kill their first and last time. So the NRA's stand on "only criminals will own guns" argument is invalid. Most of these mass shootings are done by those who have NEVER committed a crime, background check is clean. What then?



  2. #102
    Join Date
    Sep. 7, 2009
    Location
    Lexington, KY
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    20,085

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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Without getting into the details, I saw a report on the news from my neighboring state, MN. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_16...o-buy-15-guns/

    There are plenty of mentally ill folks out there that should not have access to guns. They are not/never have been criminals until they kill their first and last time. So the NRA's stand on "only criminals will own guns" argument is invalid. Most of these mass shootings are done by those who have NEVER committed a crime, background check is clean. What then?
    That's true, although Adam Lanza was unable to legally buy a gun and if his mother had stored her guns in a way that he couldn't have access....maybe it would have never happened.

    The Aurora shooter (who was seeing a psychiatrist)...maybe he would be been identified by his large purchases of ammunition online, but no one tracks online purchases. Yet, we all take off our shoes before boarding a plane because one person attempted to blow up a plane with a shoe bomb. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  3. #103
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    5,030

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    NRA states they have asked that mental health issues be included in the background checks for prospective gun purchasers. This has been blocked. Just go to Bing.com and search for NRA stance on mental health and guns. You will see link after link against this and for the "rights" of everyone to keep their mental state private.

    I see both sides of this. At one time mental hosptials were horrible and knowledge of mental health far less than today. Also it was not "unusual" for a healthy sane person to be sent to a mental hospital, for a short period of time or until death, based on little than a doctor or judge's order. Businesses and marriages were 'conveniently' dissolved in this fashion.
    People were warehouses in 'wards' with little or no interaction, treatment in nasty, bare conditions. If they weren't crazy going in, they often ended up crazy after a few years. No we shouldn't go back there.
    But. . . the result is many people who really require treatment, either one-time or on going, are 'main-streamed'. Just re-read some of the posts by our fellow COTHers who have family members or friends dealing with mental health issues. We know several of the last 'shooters' were in some sort of therapy and if this was known, they would have not been able to purchase a weapon or had more difficulty. Wouldn't have stopped the last one - that rests on the shoulders of his parents.

    My gut instinct to track people with ongoing mental health issues that can be 'maintained' with medication but currently there is no cure. Depression - well I am back and forth on that one as many of us experience depression due to life issues and with some counseling and/or a happy pill for a limited period of time are ok. But then those who are clinically depressed, might purchase a gun for suicide.

    So there is no easy answer. But had mental health history been part of back-ground checks some shootings may have been avoided. Another BUT....people shouldn't fear that speaking to a mental health professional will forever block them from owning and/or acquiring guns.

    As the saying goes: This is Simple just not Easy.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


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  4. #104
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    13,657

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr View Post
    Wow. Your post is offensive. Guess the Jews in Germany should have just given up because there was no hope. they dont get to try and protect themselves. ask any military planner - Can civilian arms stop a determined aggressor? possibly not. What it can do is make the cost of the action, going house to house, extremely high and less attractive.

    2nd you don't get to make that call. We have a right to defend ourselves. Period. You don't get to say for someone else, it may not be effective, so it is not worth letting you try.

    How smug, you look back at the holocaust and say ehh, doesn't matter that arms to a small part of the population was restricted since the larger part of the pop did just fine. And it probably wouldn't have helped anyway. Incredibly offensive. As someone who has talked with holocaust survivors, I can tell you that many would have preferred to try to defend themselves, rather than witness the slow extermination of their families.
    I meant no offense. Here is what the ADL has to say about the issue
    http://archive.adl.org/PresRele/HolNa_52/6472_52.htm

    ETA"

    "ADL Says Nazi Analogies Have No Place in Gun Control Debate

    New York, NY, January 24, 2013 ... Concerned over the proliferation of remarks comparing gun control legislation in the United States to policies upheld by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today called on critics of gun control legislation to stop using references to Hitler and the Nazis, saying they are "historically inaccurate and offensive," especially to Holocaust survivors and their families.

    "We know that the national debate over gun control is one of the most divisive issues in the land, and while Americans are entitled to have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate and offensive in any such discussion," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director and a Holocaust survivor. "The idea that supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what Hitler's Germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the Second World War is historically inaccurate and offensive, especially to Holocaust survivors and their families."

    Several national pundits and others outside of politics in recent weeks have compared the issue of gun control in the U.S. to actions taken by the Nazi regime. Some have suggested that President Obama's proposals are reminiscent of Hitler's gun-control policy. Others have argued that if the victims of the Holocaust had better access to guns, the Nazi regime would not have been able to systematically murder six million Jews and millions of others in the Holocaust.

    Some examples of those bringing Nazi and/or Holocaust analogies into the discussion over gun control include:


    • The Drudge Report, under the headline "White House Threatens 'Executive Orders' on Guns," featured photos of Adolf Hitler and Josef Stalin (Jan. 9).
    • Former Major League pitcher John Rocker wrote on WorldNetDaily.com about what he described as "…the undeniable fact that the Holocaust would never have taken place had the Jewish citizenry of Hitler's Germany had the right to bear arms and defend themselves with those arms" (Jan. 15).
    • During an interview on the Fox News Channel, Lars Larson suggested that, "…if the president does it that way, everybody in America will be required to go in and give fingerprints…. It will be 'your papers, please' like Nazi Germany" (Jan. 9).
    • Ohio State Board of Education President Debe Tehrar reportedly posted a photo of Adolf Hitler on Facebook with a variety of anti-Obama, pro-gun slogans and images (Jan. 23).
    • Sean Hannity, discussing the gun debate, stated that, “We don’t talk a lot about -- what were the intentions of our founders and framers? And we have Stalin, um, we have Hitler, we have countries, tyrannical. They talked a lot about that” (Jan. 23).
    • Judge Andrew Napolitano, senior judicial analyst at Fox News, suggested in a column on Fox News.com that, "If the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto had had the firepower and the ammunition that the Nazis did, some of Poland might have stayed free and more persons would have survived the Holocaust (Jan. 10).

    According to ADL, the small number of personal firearms in the hands of the small number of Germany's Jews (about 214,000) remaining in Germany in 1938 could in no way have stopped the totalitarian power of the Nazi German state. When they had weapons, Jews could symbolically resist, as they did in the 1943 Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and elsewhere, but could not stop the Nazi genocide machine. Gun control did not cause the Holocaust; Nazism and anti-Semitism did.

    The Anti-Defamation League, founded in 1913, is the world's leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry. "
    Last edited by carolprudm; Feb. 10, 2013 at 02:26 PM. Reason: add
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