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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    You know the Magna Carta was signed in 1215, right? Maybe they got some inspiration from the Cleisthenes and Pericles?

    Also I'm willing to go out on a limb and suggest the Declaration would have been signed regardless of the available weaponry, but I'm kind of silly that way.
    Okay, you've got me ... What is the significance of the Magna Carta in relation to weapons. Besides hyperbole and pretentious aspirations on this forum ...Sigh !! In actual fact it really was intended to cause the royals to share power with the nobility (barons) of England. (peasants not included)



  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsepoor View Post
    You are certainly entertaining me. No argument there.
    You're welcome ...



  3. #103

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    I don't own a gun and also don't buy the home protection argument for owning a gun( I'm fine with people who own a gun for hunting). Several years ago I was awoken in the middle of the night by strange men's voices in my home. Naturally, I was terrified, and assumed that my home was being robbed (or worse). So, I summoned up my courage, got out of bed, and discovered two police officers in my house! They had been driving by, noticed that I left the front door open (it was summer time and the screen door was shut) and they thought perhaps my home was being robbed and entered my home without identifying themselves. If I had owned a gun, I am certain that someone could have easily been shot and perhaps killed


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  4. #104
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    I don't own a gun and have no intention of owning one. I live in a fairly dangerous city. I have a good alarm system and try to be aware/careful. I know that doesn't guarantee my safety. Neither does a gun.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time Rider View Post
    I don't own a gun and also don't buy the home protection argument for owning a gun( I'm fine with people who own a gun for hunting). Several years ago I was awoken in the middle of the night by strange men's voices in my home. Naturally, I was terrified, and assumed that my home was being robbed (or worse). So, I summoned up my courage, got out of bed, and discovered two police officers in my house! They had been driving by, noticed that I left the front door open (it was summer time and the screen door was shut) and they thought perhaps my home was being robbed and entered my home without identifying themselves. If I had owned a gun, I am certain that someone could have easily been shot and perhaps killed
    If you had been properly trained, you would know to not shoot until you have clearly identified your target. You would know to not jump out of bed and confront the intruders. You would know to take a defensive position behind the side of the bed opposite the bedroom door, and call 911 - and keep them on the line. If the intruders approached your room, you would know to loudly advise them that you have a gun and the police are on the way. You would know to not shoot unless they came at you anyway, despite your warning. And you would know to tell the 911 operators WHERE you were in your horse, so they could advise the police, so they will properly announce when they enter (so you don't shoot them, and they don't shoot you).

    Proper training involves much more than just learning how to load and shoot. It also includes info on selecting the right firearm and ammunition for YOU, info on federal, state, and local laws, info about when to shoot or not shoot, and what to do or not do if someone breaks into your house, etc. That is why, instead of just going to the range to learn the fundamentals of shooting, it is usually better for beginning shooters to take a firearms safety course that includes classroom instruction by certified instructors, police officers, and attorneys.

    You can see if there is a nearby course taught by certified instructors by going to this site - http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx . There are two courses that are highly recommended for people just getting into firearms ownership for personal protection. They are "Home Firearm Safety" (4 hours, classroom instruction only, no shooting), and "Basic Personal Protection in the Home" (8 hours, classroom and live range instruction and practice). You can plug in your zip code and see what courses are offered near you. Detailed descriptions are available for the courses under Course Catalog. And if you think all these courses are taught by NRA fanatic good ol' boys, think again. The courses Mr DY was involved in running were taught by a retired IBM senior manager, a former Army Ranger, an assistant DA and criminal defense attorney, the owner of a software services firm, a police firearms training expert, a retired FBI agent, etc. Just regular guys, who believed in a citizen's right to defend herself.

    Edited to add you don't have to do an NRA course - there are many shooting ranges that have similar courses taught by highly qualified individuals. One of our local ranges has courses taught by a SWAT team commander and law enforcement training instructor. He particularly likes working with young people, new shooters, and women who feel a bit uneasy about handling a firearm.
    Last edited by DownYonder; Feb. 10, 2013 at 09:17 AM. Reason: addition


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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    If you had been properly trained, you would know to not shoot until you have clearly identified your target. You would know to not jump out of bed and confront the intruders. You would know to take a defensive position behind the side of the bed opposite the bedroom door, and call 911 - and keep them on the line. If the intruders approached your room, you would know to loudly advise them that you have a gun and the police are on the way. You would know to not shoot unless they came at you anyway, despite your warning. And you would know to tell the 911 operators WHERE you were in your horse, so they could advise the police, so they will properly announce when they enter (so you don't shoot them, and they don't shoot you).

    Proper training involves much more than just learning how to load and shoot. It also includes info on selecting the right firearm and ammunition for YOU, info on federal, state, and local laws, info about when to shoot or not shoot, and what to do or not do if someone breaks into your house, etc. That is why, instead of just going to the range to learn the fundamentals of shooting, it is usually better for beginning shooters to take a firearms safety course that includes classroom instruction by certified instructors, police officers, and attorneys.

    You can see if there is a nearby course taught by certified instructors by going to this site - http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx . There are two courses that are highly recommended for people just getting into firearms ownership for personal protection. They are "Home Firearm Safety" (4 hours, classroom instruction only, no shooting), and "Basic Personal Protection in the Home" (8 hours, classroom and live range instruction and practice). You can plug in your zip code and see what courses are offered near you. Detailed descriptions are available for the courses under Course Catalog. And if you think all these courses are taught by NRA fanatic good ol' boys, think again. The courses Mr DY was involved in running were taught by a retired IBM senior manager, a former Army Ranger, an assistant DA and criminal defense attorney, the owner of a software services firm, a police firearms training expert, a retired FBI agent, etc. Just regular guys, who believed in a citizen's right to defend herself.

    Edited to add you don't have to do an NRA course - there are many shooting ranges that have similar courses taught by highly qualified individuals. One of our local ranges has courses taught by a SWAT team commander and law enforcement training instructor. He particularly likes working with young people, new shooters, and women who feel a bit uneasy about handling a firearm.
    If someone wakes me out of a sound sleep they had better not count on my ability to think clearly or remember any training. My body wakes up about 5 minutes and one cup of coffee before my brain does. Even a middle of the night earthquake is not enough to jump start my brain.
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsepoor View Post
    My impression of the intent of the OP in starting this thread was not to argue about it, but just to reassure her(him?)self that they were not alone in not owning a gun. I think there were many of us who agreed, kind of wanting to have our own little thread of non gun owners get together...then one by one, the pro gun folks crashed the party. I don't get it at all.
    .
    Dani et al ... There are many more non gun owners than gun owners in the USA. By posting on this horse forum, you self select a population. It only seems that you're in a minority. I would venture to say that forum posters are more likely to have a tractor too. So, horse owning implies a lifestyle that likely requires tools, living areas, and different mindset than the general population.

    Horsepoor: As to why gun owners have "crashed" your party... it's the same as a neighbors loud party at 3 am... It's annoying to see posts that promulgate ignorance that affects our rights through feel-good laws that accomplish nothing.



  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Dani et al ... There are many more non gun owners than gun owners in the USA. By posting on this horse forum, you self select a population. It only seems that you're in a minority. I would venture to say that forum posters are more likely to have a tractor too. So, horse owning implies a lifestyle that likely requires tools, living areas, and different mindset than the general population.

    Horsepoor: As to why gun owners have "crashed" your party... it's the same as a neighbors loud party at 3 am... It's annoying to see posts that promulgate ignorance that affects our rights through feel-good laws that accomplish nothing.
    So, gun owners are the loud party goers?

    ETA:There are probably 2 or 3 firearms in this house, including the .410 that was given to me for Christmas
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by carolprudm View Post
    So, gun owners are the loud party goers?

    ETA:There are probably 2 or 3 firearms in this house, including the .410 that was given to me for Christmas

    Serious question ...
    What do you use a .410 for ? Seems to me ... expensive to shoot & limited utility compared to 12 or 20 gauge.



  10. #110
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    I do not. I will not. The only possible reason I would ever have is if I lived alone in the wilderness and needed a deer rifle to hunt food, which is about as likely as hell freezing over.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry


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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Serious question ...
    What do you use a .410 for ? Seems to me ... expensive to shoot & limited utility compared to 12 or 20 gauge.
    I have shot it once, it was, as I mentioned, a gift, from my son who seemed to think it was appropriate. He was with NATO in Yugoslavia....
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.


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  12. #112
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    The one thing that's troubled me about this thread -- and to be sure until 9 months ago although a longtime if lapsed ideological 2nd Amendment supporter member of the NRA, I owned no guns although both my former wives did -- is that it is an invitation to mayhem to publicly announce that you are unarmed and undefended.
    If I knew what I were doing, why would I take lessons?

    "Things should be as simple as possible,
    but no simpler." - Einstein



  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by hosspuller View Post
    Okay, you've got me ... What is the significance of the Magna Carta in relation to weapons. Besides hyperbole and pretentious aspirations on this forum ...Sigh !! In actual fact it really was intended to cause the royals to share power with the nobility (barons) of England. (peasants not included)

    You say hyperbole, I say a High School knowledge of history...

    The Magna Carta was the first step in equalizing power between the monarchy and everyone else - realistically at that time, the nobility. But it was the first step in transitioning from a monarchy to a democracy (and really laying the foundation for our own constitution). You know, before guns, unless we count China's invention of gunpowder, but safe to say they were not calling the shots in England at that time.

    But even if you think that's not a pertinent example of a shift in the balance of power without the "advantage" of guns, Pericles fashioned out a fairly nice democracy without the aid of guns. And having a lot of firepower "available" in the southern states didn't exactly end slavery in short order with just their majikal presence. If it was that easy, I'm sure there were plenty of people (white and black) willing to arm the slaves. It still took two well matched armies, four years of fighting and 646,000+ dead and wounded.

    Have your gun, don't have your gun, I could give a flying one. But do it without tossing out a half baked statement that makes mockery of several thousand years of military history. Because unless you can get in the wayback machine and fight yesterday's wars with today's weapons, wars are mostly fought with an equalizing level of weaponry, be it 2BC or 2013 AD. There may be advantages on one side, but even those have never guaranteed victory. If so I doubt the British, then Soviets and now the Americans would have so delightfully enjoyed our time in Afghanistan. And in spite of that, we are still mostly done with slavery and feudalism. Still haven't stomped out stupid though.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Just thinking hypothetically here. Let's say aliens invade earth, or some horrible virus escapes a lab somewhere and really does turn people into "the walking dead", or civilization as we know it otherwise collapses...

    For those of you who don't own guns, don't want to own guns, and don't think anyone else should have them, either - who would you run to for protection? I'm betting you would expect those of us WITH GUNS to save you.

    If "The Walking Dead" has taught me anything, it's that -- in the event of the zombie apocalypse -- shovels, crow bars, knives, or crossbows are the weapon of choice for your well-prepared zombie fighter who wants to fight the zombies in front of her without attracting half the undead in North America. In the event of World War Z, I'm going to find the chick with the samurai sword and pack zombies. YMMV.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.


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  15. #115
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    Losh, you and me both. She's my hero!
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


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  16. #116
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    Guns, particularly high-powered rifles, are a great weapon in the zombie apocalypse for the first few months, assuming you have a supply of ammo that you can stretch that long. After that, it's all about bows and arrows baby. Bows and arrows. The best offensive improvised weapons for a zombie apocalypse that is in full-swing would be flame throwers and remote controlled IEDs because you can take out groups of shuffling un-dead very easily with those.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


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  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    Guns, particularly high-powered rifles, are a great weapon in the zombie apocalypse for the first few months, assuming you have a supply of ammo that you can stretch that long. After that, it's all about bows and arrows baby. Bows and arrows. The best offensive improvised weapons for a zombie apocalypse that is in full-swing would be flame throwers and remote controlled IEDs because you can take out groups of shuffling un-dead very easily with those.

    Well, yeah, you could go that route if you want a mass-produced Wal-Mart zombie apocalypse. I prefer a more boutique experience. Handcrafted, if you will, with only the finest of blunt objects and employing a personal touch. I'll have to do some research on the appropriate wine with which to refresh myself after a hard day in the street.

    One thing is certain: I won't be stupid enough to ride a horse into a dead end in the middle of Atlanta and get it killed. That poor beastie had so much more acting talent than Lori.
    According to the Mayan calendar, the world will not end this week. Please plan your life accordingly.


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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by loshad View Post
    In the event of World War Z, I'm going to find the chick with the samurai sword and pack zombies. YMMV.
    truth! And I'm going to start building a city off the ground. So far, haven't seen any of the zombies learn to climb trees or buildings w/o steps.



  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by threedogpack View Post
    truth! And I'm going to start building a city off the ground. So far, haven't seen any of the zombies learn to climb trees or buildings w/o steps.
    It might ruin their make-up.



  20. #120
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    Well, I was going to leave this be, but I can't resist the fallacies of NEEDING guns in a zombie apocalypse. I mean, seriously. We KNOW zombies, though dead many months or years, have great hearing and are ATTRACTED to gunshots, so a machine gun in a crowd of zombies is NOT going to solve your problem.

    Zombies, home invaders, scary men bigger than you I think are all better addressed with a baseball bat, pick ax, samurai sword, etc.



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