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  1. #61
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    Apr. 3, 2011
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    Waaayyyyy back in the dusty recesses of my memory I recall someone being disqualified for using a banned bit? The judge got suspicious based on the horse's behavior and made the rider go into the center, dismount, and drop the bit. Whatever it was was against the rules because the rider was excused, I believe. I can't tell you more than that, I'm afraid, because I just don't remember.

    But that's the only instance I ever witnessed where someone was disqualified from the hunters for unconventional tack/apparel. Dinged, that's another story. When the GPAs were new I remember that the judges didn't like them in the hunter ring, but now I don't really think it matters.



  2. #62
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    Jun. 2, 2009
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    A couple of years ago I took several students to a local circuit hunter show. It was very laid back-they excused jackets, allowed standing martingales in flat, and several other "no-no's" I can't remember - a fun/get your horse out to play show.

    One of my girls won her flat class (did well over fences too) and AFTER her placing ... SEVERAL classes later ... it was announced that she was dropped from first to last because of illegal equipment...a flash noseband.

    Apparently...another competitor lodged a complaint. turned out her placing screwed up their points for end of year champion. It was/is a local SCHOOLING circuit.

    We've beatten that competitor multiple times since that year



  3. #63
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    Jul. 9, 2007
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    Cincinnati, Ohio
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    This weekend my trainer, at a A show, wore her Volants, won the hack, and had good ribbons in the OF fence classes. I think there were 15 in the class and probably half of the class is shipping to Florida to show next week so good, good company.She normally does jumpers but has a very nice hunter she is bringing along and love her Volants.



  4. #64
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    Apr. 5, 2007
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    Tampa FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    And to think you let hearsay turn you away from a wonderful discipline. Sad.

    Honestly, how in the world did you "know" you were going to get 2nd, and "know" that someone told on you and you got "disqualified?"
    because it happened AFTER the prize award ceremony...
    Honestly, OP was asking for feedback, I told my story and I know it's hard to believe what happened, trust me I was the most annoyed. It's fine that you don't believe me. It was a low level show with not many riders in the class, there really was no reason to brag about finishing 2nd, and it's certainly not what I intended to sound like... If you can find someone that was in the Augusta State University riding team in 2000, they might even remember as everybody was pretty pissed. If you do, let me know, cause I've lost contact with all of them and would love to get back in touch



  5. #65
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by MILOUTE55 View Post
    because it happened AFTER the prize award ceremony...
    Honestly, OP was asking for feedback, I told my story and I know it's hard to believe what happened, trust me I was the most annoyed. It's fine that you don't believe me. It was a low level show with not many riders in the class, there really was no reason to brag about finishing 2nd, and it's certainly not what I intended to sound like... If you can find someone that was in the Augusta State University riding team in 2000, they might even remember as everybody was pretty pissed. If you do, let me know, cause I've lost contact with all of them and would love to get back in touch

    This was IHSA? They have a whole 'nother set of rules and I think that's an entirely different scenario than what the OP is proposing.
    ~Veronica
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  6. #66
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Even if it was IHSA, imitation leather boots are not a problem. IHSA is about affordability and equitation, not clothing. I'm guessing someone was just being nasty to you.

    There are no banned bits in hunters.



  7. #67
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    Even if it was IHSA, imitation leather boots are not a problem. IHSA is about affordability and equitation, not clothing. I'm guessing someone was just being nasty to you.

    There are no banned bits in hunters.
    Agree, but there are all sort of other rules in IHSA that if you're not aware of-- you could easily run afoul of. And I wonder if THAT was what got Milouette in trouble and not the boots.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  8. #68
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    Sep. 7, 2006
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    WNY
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    I judged a schooling show last summer, leadline up to 2'. If a horse had unconventional tack (flash, kimberwick), I made a note on my sheet for tie-breaking purposes only. It being a schooling show, we never got to that point . Not scaring me ranked over tack .

    I don't see much point in DQing someone because of unconventional tack.. Let them ride, knock them down in placings if the situation calls for it.
    Against My Better Judgement: A blog about my new FLF OTTB
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  9. #69
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    Jan. 29, 2003
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    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by amastrike View Post
    . Not scaring me ranked over tack .

    .
    Haha; been there.

    Just wanted to add, it's not the actual tack that makes a judge knock someone down in the placings....it's what it infers. Hunters, even at the lowest levels, are supposed to represent steadiness and rideability. Gag bits & running martingales don't exactly scream rideability. If a horse *needs* a running martingale (or any martingale really), there are probably other issues anyway that are going to keep them out of or low in the placings.
    \"Don\'t go throwing effort after foolishness\" >>>Spur, Man From Snowy River



  10. #70
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czar View Post
    If a horse *needs* a running martingale (or any martingale really), there are probably other issues anyway that are going to keep them out of or low in the placings.
    In some cases, bits for example, this can be true but it isn't for martingales. Both a running and a standing are used to to keep a horse from raising it's head too much: One just acts on the nose the other on the bit. The standing is de rigueur and you are almost expected to have one on your hunter. The very tippy top hunters in the nation tend to go in standings. There is no inference of lack of rideabilty.

    And yet, the same can't be said about the running , which can be considered unconventional for the hunter ring. It's fashion. Admittedly, the running is an ugly piece of equipment...and when in effect, it also detracts from the overall picture.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  11. #71
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Czar View Post
    Haha; been there.

    Just wanted to add, it's not the actual tack that makes a judge knock someone down in the placings....it's what it infers.
    Nothin' "infers" nothin'.

    A text or action can "imply" things.

    But the reader or observer does "inferring."

    Tell me this grammatical bit of fussiness doesn't belong in this thread.

    The imply/infer thing is a common mix-up, so as long as we are talking about rules for tack, I think it fits.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  12. #72
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    Sep. 24, 2010
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    Western NY
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    I find this thread highly appropriate since my trainer just mentioned taking me to some unrated hunter shows to get my new horse out and about. I'm primarily an eventer, but do like to pop over some jumper courses in the winter/spring for a change of pace.

    New guy goes in a flash noseband with a running martingale... He CAN go without the martingale on the flat, over fences not quite yet. I'm not planning on doing the flat classes, so I'll probably end up just using the running and taking what I get. We're going for mileage, not ribbons. The flash is loose, but still needed. My event saddle with long billets might also be a dead giveaway that the hunter ring is not our usual scene... We're not up to jumper heights yet, so can't go there right now.

    My previous horse I took to a local schooling show. I usually rode him with a figure 8 noseband, but knew that might not fly. I brought a regular cavesson and asked the steward before the show started if she minded I used the figure 8. Steward and show secretary had no issue with it whatsoever, but we were clearly the one that didn't look like the others along with my IRH Elite helmet amongst the velvet hunt cap lookalikes. After our equitation round, the judge came up to me after the pinning telling me about why I had pinned where I had (I went on the wrong side of the cones for the pattern, whoops) and that I was "clearly a jumper." The next show of that series that summer, different judge DQd a rider under my friend's instruction because she had a flash on... That kind of set some people off because the tack rules were not kept consistent from show to show.



  13. #73
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    Jan. 27, 2003
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliodoro View Post
    I find this thread highly appropriate since my trainer just mentioned taking me to some unrated hunter shows to get my new horse out and about. I'm primarily an eventer, but do like to pop over some jumper courses in the winter/spring for a change of pace.

    New guy goes in a flash noseband with a running martingale... He CAN go without the martingale on the flat, over fences not quite yet. I'm not planning on doing the flat classes, so I'll probably end up just using the running and taking what I get. We're going for mileage, not ribbons. The flash is loose, but still needed. My event saddle with long billets might also be a dead giveaway that the hunter ring is not our usual scene... We're not up to jumper heights yet, so can't go there right now.

    My previous horse I took to a local schooling show. I usually rode him with a figure 8 noseband, but knew that might not fly. I brought a regular cavesson and asked the steward before the show started if she minded I used the figure 8. Steward and show secretary had no issue with it whatsoever, but we were clearly the one that didn't look like the others along with my IRH Elite helmet amongst the velvet hunt cap lookalikes. After our equitation round, the judge came up to me after the pinning telling me about why I had pinned where I had (I went on the wrong side of the cones for the pattern, whoops) and that I was "clearly a jumper." The next show of that series that summer, different judge DQd a rider under my friend's instruction because she had a flash on... That kind of set some people off because the tack rules were not kept consistent from show to show.
    Sounds like a 4-H or Western type show...based on your information (velvet hunt caps, cones/patterns, etc). Your probably better off asking management for what is okay than going by what you see here.

    I run small schooling shows that try to mirror USEF rules, however, we can be pretty lenient. I will ask the judge in the morning on what they want to do and then announce it. Some people will use boots in the hunter classes and if they are concerned about ribbons, I want them to understand they will be DQ-d. We've also had problems with length of whips before. We get dressage saddles/whips sometimes and even close contact saddles with dressage whips. As long as everyone is on the same page, I think it's fine.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  14. #74
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    Feb. 5, 2007
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    Would a jumper judge or steward DQ you if you did not have rein stops on your reins when using a running martingale? I was watching a schooling show where several people did not use rein stops. It made me real nervous especially with a full cheek snaffle. I don't believe there is anything in the rules, but it seems like such a safety violation to me.



  15. #75
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    Nov. 13, 2004
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    The only letter R in my name is in the front, not behind it, but to me not having rein stops on a running martingale with a full cheek bit is an issue of safety, not convention. I would think a rider could be disqualified at judge's discretion and asked to leave the arena if that person came in with unsafe equipment. Didn't it used to be (or maybe it still is in the rulebook) that if a rider's chin strap comes undone on course and the rider does not fix it, that rider is disqualified? Again, safety issue.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
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  16. #76
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    Sep. 5, 2007
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    I pulled myself from a class when my TB decided a HUS class was the Kentucky Derby

    Otherwise at another show, I felt REALLY bad when I forgot to tell my trainer (who was an eventer from South Africa) that his horse couldn't wear boots in a hunter class. He wasn't DQ'd once I explained to them the situation. They allowed him to remove the boots and return to the ring. It was a schooling show, and he had very little knowledge of American Hunter classes. He read up on them after that!



  17. #77
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    Apr. 5, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Agree, but there are all sort of other rules in IHSA that if you're not aware of-- you could easily run afoul of. And I wonder if THAT was what got Milouette in trouble and not the boots.
    I honestly don't remember what type of show it was, but it was my first time in the US and I was very unfamiliar with hunter rules so it's possible that it was something else. I just remember being informed afterwards that I was DQ'd, someone mentioned the boots being the reason, can't remember if it was a team mate or organization staff but to me that's always been the reason and it's too late to go dig this story back up and seek for justice now



  18. #78
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    Apr. 28, 2005
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    Chicago
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    Quote Originally Posted by thrghbrd View Post
    A couple of years ago I took several students to a local circuit hunter show. It was very laid back-they excused jackets, allowed standing martingales in flat, and several other "no-no's" I can't remember - a fun/get your horse out to play show.

    One of my girls won her flat class (did well over fences too) and AFTER her placing ... SEVERAL classes later ... it was announced that she was dropped from first to last because of illegal equipment...a flash noseband.

    Apparently...another competitor lodged a complaint. turned out her placing screwed up their points for end of year champion. It was/is a local SCHOOLING circuit.

    We've beatten that competitor multiple times since that year


    Pretty sure that was me judging. In August? Chicago area?

    It was my first time judging and I wish I had made a bigger stink about allowing your rider to keep her ribbon. But the circuit had no official rules and the other trainer approached the people managing the show and insisted on taking your kid's ribbon away. I felt really terrible as she deserved to win. For a small schooling show like that I felt it was ok for her to show in a flash. Her horse, big grey TB right?, was well-behaved and the nicest mover in the class.

    And regarding the standing martingale...the pony had literally thrown the kid into the arena fence in the over fences class preceding the flat class. I saw the trainers removing the martingale for the flat and immediately asked the announcer to say that martingale a would be allowed - for everyone's safety.
    ~ Citizens for a Kinder, Gentler COTH...our mantra: Be nice. ~


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  19. #79
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    Oct. 13, 2011
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    Boot suggestion: Middleburg boots. Cheap and they look great!



  20. #80
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    Nov. 6, 2001
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    I think a rider was DQ'd at upperville GP a year or so ago for no stock and unbuttoned collar.



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