The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 170
  1. #141
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    See, an alarm would be my go to here. Why go straight to a gun?
    It boggles my mind that there was no home alarm. If the husband thought it important enough to buy at least two guns to protect his family, he should have thought it important enough to get an alarm system to protect his house, especially since the neighborhood is a prime target with the layout and spreading of homes. I looked at that neighborhood and it looks exactly like many that we have here in Northern VA - built on former farmland no less - and those places always have alarms because they are luxury homes and filled with stuff to steal. It also really bothered me that the husband had the nerve to pull out the responsible and prepared gun owner rhetoric. According to what I read, neither he nor his wife have any background or training in firearms that suggests either one of them would qualify for that accolade. They just bought guns, went shooting a few times, and called themselves awesome when the wife ends up wildly shooting someone at the prompting of her husband. Whoopitydoo!
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    So he didn't need to be shot? Sounds like he did. He had time, he knew people were home, he broke in.

    I know what I'd do.
    By the time he found the mother and children, he certainly needed to be shot or given the chance get the heck out of there with no bloodshed. Nobody is arguing that she shouldn't have shot the guy five times but it would have been better if she hadn't simply to spare her and her children the trauma. If she hadn't been able to bring herself to shoot him - and I think it's very much a possibility given how weak-minded and unprepared she was - and he had gotten the gun from her, the ending would have likely been tragedy, so we can't say that what she did in the end wasn't necessary.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #143
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    12,803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    Carol, the accompanying video does, but you are right it isn't in the transcript below the video.
    You are right, I didn't watch the video. I HATE them, especially when preceded by an add. I would still like to see the police report rather than the TV reporter though
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  4. #144
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2006
    Location
    Larkspur, Colo.
    Posts
    4,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    Carol, the accompanying video does, but you are right it isn't in the transcript below the video.
    Yes. It says right there in the newscast that the intruder "went after one of the nine-year-old twins as they ran upstairs, and then broke through a locked bedroom and a locked bathroom before finding the attic where the kids and their mother were hiding."


    2 members found this post helpful.

  5. #145
    Join Date
    Jul. 15, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    You must have read a different article because the one linked on this page says no such thing and almost all of the news write-ups I've read as well as statements from the police lay it out exactly as I said it happened. She got scared and called her husband, grabbed the kids and a gun, and hid in the attic per her husband's instructions while the intruder went to his car to get his crowbar. He broke in and rummaged through the house before making his way into the attic.

    Lex as I said to Carol, watch the accompanying video. It clearly says that the man "went after" one of the twins and had to get through 2 locked doors to get to this family.
    Yes an alarm would have also worked, but 2 guns are much cheaper than an alarm system and that may have factored into the decision (this last part is of course pure speculation)
    Railgirl.blogspot.com



  6. #146
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2008
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Don't own a handgun but will be attending a class to get my permit in the next month.

    It was simply a coincidence. There was a Groupon for a gun permit class a few months ago, so me and a friend bought them... just cause. We do weird adventures together. Then Newtown happened.

    I've never been around guns, so I don't know if I would actually purchase one but I'm going to take the class and educate myself, and I will be eligible to get a permit if I decide to. I'm on the fence in the whole gun debate. There are no easy answers, it seems.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    Lex as I said to Carol, watch the accompanying video. It clearly says that the man "went after" one of the twins and had to get through 2 locked doors to get to this family.
    Yes an alarm would have also worked, but 2 guns are much cheaper than an alarm system and that may have factored into the decision (this last part is of course pure speculation)
    I watched the video attached to the ABC article on this page and saw nothing about him going after the twins.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  8. #148
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    "so we can't say that what she did in the end wasn't necessary."

    So... what are you arguing about? The woman did what she felt was right. I'd do the same. I'm not going to sit down and talk philosophy with an intruder. I'd rather suffer some post traumatic stress than die. And you keep saying she was shooting "wildly". Ummm. She hit him FIVE times in the face and neck. That's not easy to do. My special forces step dad taught me to empty the gun into the chest area because it was the biggest target. The head is harder to hit.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #149
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2005
    Location
    Spotsylvania, VA
    Posts
    12,803

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MMacallister View Post
    Lex as I said to Carol, watch the accompanying video. It clearly says that the man "went after" one of the twins and had to get through 2 locked doors to get to this family.
    Yes an alarm would have also worked, but 2 guns are much cheaper than an alarm system and that may have factored into the decision (this last part is of course pure speculation)
    I don't know how much guns cost but with the discount on our homeowners insurance our alarm costs next to nothing. You can usually get a system installed for around $100 and very often free. It's about $25 a month for burglary and fire which gives us a substantial discount on our insurance
    I wasn't always a Smurf
    Penmerryl's Sophie RIDSH
    "I ain't as good as I once was but I'm as good once as I ever was"
    The ignore list is my friend. It takes 2 to argue.



  10. #150
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    "so we can't say that what she did in the end wasn't necessary."

    So... what are you arguing about? The woman did what she felt was right. I'd do the same. I'm not going to sit down and talk philosophy with an intruder. I'd rather suffer some post traumatic stress than die. And you keep saying she was shooting "wildly". Ummm. She hit him FIVE times in the face and neck. That's not easy to do. My special forces step dad taught me to empty the gun into the chest area because it was the biggest target. The head is harder to hit.
    I'm not arguing about her shooting the guy. I would have shot him in the chest without hesitation but only if he continued to advance after being warned that I was armed. She had two valid options at that point and made her choice. Either let the guy have the chance to escape after seeing her with the gun or shoot him as soon as he was visible. With her and her children cornered in the attic, she made her choice. Leading up to it, she could have and should have made better choices, but she got very lucky that the guy wasn't in a defensible position coming into the attic and that he happened to be unarmed, was taken by surprise by her being in the home, and most importantly, that she was able to pull the trigger given her weak mindset and inexperience at that time. Situations like that are why simulated situational firearm use courses are used in law enforcement and military training now. They use what's known as Simmunitions. Paintballs more or less but using actual firearms - modified with a few parts that can easily be switched out - in simulated exercises to prepare you physically and mentally to defend yourself and kill if necessary. In "gun country" those are all the rage and those are what people who are serious about self-defense use to prepare themselves.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #151
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    Can you tell me why you think/know she had a "weak mindset" and was shooting "wildly"? And how do you know she didn't tell him she had a gun? Were you there?

    You seem to think that she should have just left her house. Some houses are harder to leave than might think. My house, in particular, is very hard to HIDE in. Believe me, I've thought about it because I'd rather be invisible than to have to shoot someone. However, the doors are very, very viewable. You weren't at that woman's house. You don't know.

    BTW, if I'm cornered in an attic I'm going to shoot. You follow me up there, you aren't coming for conversation.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  12. #152
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    She had a weak mindset because the husband told her everything to do. She didn't even have enough common sense to call the police herself. Her husband told her to hide in the attic, to shoot the guy when he opened the door, and she fired all six rounds at the guy according to the police report and her statements, even after he begged her to stop. That's not the kind of behaviour that someone who is strong-minded and trained to deal with home intrusion practices. As I said, she's lucky that she was able to pull the trigger.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #153
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    "even after he begged her to stop. That's not the kind of behaviour that someone who is strong-minded"

    Sorry, I'm not listening to someone who is begging me to stop after he breaks in and is hunting my family.

    As for "weak minded", I see that as scared as hell. Yes, I want to be in touch with my SO in that kind of situation - if for no other reason to know someone who loves me is there for me.

    I'm single so I can't imagine what I'd do to protect kids. Do you know what you would do if someone broke into your house? You seem very judgmental. I have no idea what kind of adrenalin would be pouring through my body. I'd be lucky to even hit someone. Five times in the face and neck - impressive.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #154
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
    Posts
    4,003

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    "even after he begged her to stop. That's not the kind of behaviour that someone who is strong-minded"

    Sorry, I'm not listening to someone who is begging me to stop after he breaks in and is hunting my family.

    As for "weak minded", I see that as scared as hell. Yes, I want to be in touch with my SO in that kind of situation - if for no other reason to know someone who loves me is there for me.

    I'm single so I can't imagine what I'd do to protect kids. Do you know what you would do if someone broke into your house? You seem very judgmental. I have no idea what kind of adrenalin would be pouring through my body. I'd be lucky to even hit someone. Five times in the face and neck - impressive.
    Well, someone who is strong minded and trained in the use of a firearm would not leave such a wide cluster as face AND neck hits. Also, someone who is strong minded would have had the ability to cease the action of shooting someone when the are begged to stop. They also would have had the presence of mind to announce they are armed and give the person a chance to back off.

    From what I have read of the accounts, I am with Lex in that this woman was not in a good frame of mind and got lucky. Depending on the state she is in, she may face criminal charges for what she did.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #155
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2004
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,179

    Default

    I'll vouch for the veracity of McAllister's post about the intruder pursuing a child though locked doors.
    It's the voice over by ABC's Steve Olson that describes the pursuit.

    There are several different videos on the story at that link.

    No doubt in my mind about the intention of the intruder with that info. Five rounds wasn't enough. He still got to his car to get away. The intruder was lucky the woman was panicked. Better shooting would have killed him on the spot.



  16. #156
    Join Date
    Sep. 24, 2004
    Location
    Piedmont Triad, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,179

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LexInVA View Post
    I'm not arguing about her shooting the guy. I would have shot him in the chest without hesitation but only if he continued to advance after being warned that I was armed. .
    Lex... There is no warning from me to a violent intruder. (the broken doors confirmed the intent) Once I've identified the target, it's on.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #157
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajierene View Post
    Well, someone who is strong minded and trained in the use of a firearm would not leave such a wide cluster as face AND neck hits. Also, someone who is strong minded would have had the ability to cease the action of shooting someone when the are begged to stop. They also would have had the presence of mind to announce they are armed and give the person a chance to back off.

    From what I have read of the accounts, I am with Lex in that this woman was not in a good frame of mind and got lucky. Depending on the state she is in, she may face criminal charges for what she did.
    How often have we been told not to say you have a gun because the nut job after you will get it and use it against you?

    And you think the face and neck is a "wide cluster"? If five out of six shots hit, I'm impressed. The woman had to be scared as heck. She's not in military training.

    I'm thinking you have not ever been in this situation but, wow, can you judge.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  18. #158
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    "even after he begged her to stop. That's not the kind of behaviour that someone who is strong-minded"

    Sorry, I'm not listening to someone who is begging me to stop after he breaks in and is hunting my family.

    As for "weak minded", I see that as scared as hell. Yes, I want to be in touch with my SO in that kind of situation - if for no other reason to know someone who loves me is there for me.

    I'm single so I can't imagine what I'd do to protect kids. Do you know what you would do if someone broke into your house? You seem very judgmental. I have no idea what kind of adrenalin would be pouring through my body. I'd be lucky to even hit someone. Five times in the face and neck - impressive.
    Not to be flippant, but assuming they were attempting to break through the front door and I was on the first floor, I would have grabbed my phone and dialed 911 on speaker and give them a quick sitrep while obtaining my handgun from it's case in my bedroom, then I would proceed to the foyer, stopping within 20 feet of my front door, where the intersection of the hallway and the entrance to my kitchen are. Then I would loudly shout twice in my big boy voice of authority - the same one I often use at the dog park to put people in line - while covering the doorway that I was armed and that the police are on their way. If the intruder then got the door open, I would yell "Stop! I am armed!". If he continued to advance into my home after that, I would shoot him once in the chest and then again in the stomach if he did not halt or retreat due to the first wound. If he continued to move forward in an aggressive manner towards me after being shot twice, I would unload another round into his upper body, probably causing fatal damage to his lungs at that point, and hope that he has the common sense to back off and stay down when I am obviously armed. If he didn't, then my property value is going to go down and I'll have to replace my hardwood floors that I just spent loads of money on having installed as well as my handgun which would be confiscated by the police as evidence in a homicide. First-world problems from a third-world solution but that's how you handle an intruder. I have a dog who barks aggressively at any potential intruders on his domain, so I most likely wouldn't have to do anything because he would probably scare them off, but if he didn't, it would go something like how I outlined above. If the intruder happened to be deaf or didn't speak English, well, shit happens. I work from home, more often than not, and I am trained to deal with such situations having been an LEO, so I can be judgemental and give my say because I have credibility to do so.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #159
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2007
    Location
    Hollowed out volcano in the South Pacific.
    Posts
    11,125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alabama View Post
    How often have we been told not to say you have a gun because the nut job after you will get it and use it against you?

    And you think the face and neck is a "wide cluster"? If five out of six shots hit, I'm impressed. The woman had to be scared as heck. She's not in military training.

    I'm thinking you have not ever been in this situation but, wow, can you judge.
    She shot him point-blank in a crawl-space as soon as he opened the door, according to the police report. Anyone can hit anything at that range if the target is right on top of them.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have,
    at this moment, been thrown up from below!



  20. #160
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2002
    Location
    Calera, AL
    Posts
    1,901

    Default

    Well, goody for you that you are an ex LEO. Not everyone is and not everyone has that kind of training. Do you honestly think that the average person is trained to react to a break in??? No, of course you don't - but you are more than happy to say that they should have acted this way or that way even though you were NO WHERE near them. Just because you were a LEO doesn't mean you have any more right to judge than anyone else.

    And again, I've been told over and over not to announce that I have a weapon. If you want to, go ahead. I'm not gonna. You break down doors coming for me, you're going to die by my hand. Sucks, but there you go.


    4 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 15
    Last Post: Nov. 30, 2011, 11:07 AM
  2. Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sep. 8, 2009, 08:23 AM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: Sep. 7, 2009, 09:20 PM
  4. Anyone ride and carry a firearm??
    By CanterQueen in forum Endurance and Trail Riding
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: Jul. 18, 2008, 09:24 AM
  5. Replies: 210
    Last Post: Oct. 6, 2003, 05:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •