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  1. #41
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    The other thread has nothing to do with this thread! You have a multi world champion riding her retired champion without tack here. Gracefully. The horse is totally with her. That's different from the other thread and people training horses without tack. Isabell's riding here. Not training. Not training.

    The side rein part of that other thread was just strange. Put a horse in side reins to make a frame until the rider can adjust to bareback? But a beginner on a horse with side reins cuz the horse will be in collected canter? Don't think so.

    Y'all miss the point if you think that the other thread relates in any way to a world champion dressage rider riding her retired champion without tack. Y'all just miss the point.

    This is an awesome video.
    Last edited by Kaluna; Feb. 9, 2013 at 02:06 AM. Reason: oops!


    10 members found this post helpful.

  2. #42
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    LOL! Let's not go revising history. Nowhere was it advocated to use side reins to put the horse in a frame.

    But you're right; it is a lovely video. I've added it to my list of awesome bareback dressage videos for me to meditate on, and to remind me where I want to go with regard to rapport and connection.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    LOL! Let's not go revising history. Nowhere was it advocated to use side reins to put the horse in a frame.
    From the I-1 bareback thread:
    Quote Originally Posted by candaceclemens
    Add the side reins, and then you are good to start. The side reins will keep the horse in a proper "posture" until YOU, the rider, establishes your own contact and "feel." I have done this so often, with people who have never even sat on a horse before....and, with my trained horse, on a longe line, I can usually have them learn to ride a collected canter, in a frame, as soon as I see that the side reins have gone "loose" as the rider establishes that connection, which is from their lower back into the horse's hind quarters
    And my favorite:
    Quote Originally Posted by candaceclemens
    Every instructor should have at least one and/or should suggest all students purchase a kit.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
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    Thank you. In fact my own trainer in RL uses side reins. I wonder if Isabell's Satchmo was never trained with side reins?

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    Thank you. In fact my own trainer in RL uses side reins. I wonder if Isabell's Satchmo was never trained with side reins?

    Paula
    Many horses ARE trained up the levels without ever using side reins, but that's beside the point... Surely you realize that skilled use of side reins for training the horse is one thing; using side reins to create "collection" so that a bareback rider bounces less is quite another.

    But I really think you must know that.

    I think this thread just jumped the tracks completely.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
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    Would someone please go Friend Izzy so she has something else to think about other than picking nits?

    This is a nice, pleasant, video of a top rider on a retired top horse doing pretty work. How Izzy found it in her hard little puckered up soul to even think about that old thread, is beyond me... and of no interest to anyone but her. And PE, together they form the latest iteration of 'yesbutwhataboutme' brat pack. If only Ace was here to join in, we'd have a new set of Three Mousekateers.

    In Other News....
    Satchmo looks happy, sound, willing, and eager. What a lucky, lucky horse.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
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    I know that everyone doesn't use side reins, I was wondering if Isabell was one of those who has come out against them or supporting a certain training or riding approach like Uta Graf and her bitless dressage.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  8. #48
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    Maybe I'm being unclear. I don't have an issue with side reins on the longe. I don't. They've been around for ages and can really help young/unschooled horses learn to trust the contact and work over their backs. So I'm not on a vendetta against an innocent piece of tack that has its purposes.

    I don't understand the tone of some of these posts. Rereading the I-1 Bareback Debacle Thread, I didn't see anyone vilifying riding bareback. What I saw was a disagreement-- horror of horrors for a forum!-- on methods specifically relating to tack. And then there's some sass on the side about what is and is not advertising, which, let's be honest, is par for the course for this forum as well.

    Playing the woe-is-me victim card with regards to equal treatment of bareback riding whether it be TL or Isabel Werth is not an effective conversational style. Nobody is being burned at the stake because they removed a layer between themselves and the horse-- not you, not Isabeau, not IW, not candaceclemens. Hawking merchandise, yes. Riding bareback, no. Let's not conflate the two.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost_at_C View Post
    Many horses ARE trained up the levels without ever using side reins, but that's beside the point... Surely you realize that skilled use of side reins for training the horse is one thing; using side reins to create "collection" so that a bareback rider bounces less is quite another.

    But I really think you must know that.

    I think this thread just jumped the tracks completely.

    Good luck with sound logic and reason, C.

    I'm off to take a shower and head to a Horse & Tack Swap. If I'm going to listen to more puffery, bragging, foolishness and lies, I'd rather do it a horse sale. It's vastly more entertaining, and I might make a buck or two


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
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    Good idea Katerine... I shall go stuff some hay nets and bring my boys in for the night, a much more satisfying endeavour. I'll leave it for someone else to explain that Uta Graf is not an advocate of "bitless dressage" as a training system.
    Proud COTH lurker since 2001.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #51
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    I guess you can read "riding approach" as training method. I just enjoy dressage riders having different ways of going. There was a cool article in Eurodressage "Bitless or Not, It’s About Having the Choice" where a number of riders talk about training bitless and riding bitless. Indeed, the article even mentioned lower level competition bitless. Andrew McLean said of training bitless,

    "how you train the bitless bridle depends on the hands at the other end. I think you can have the horse light in anything. A bit does hurt more because the negative reinforcement can be higher in an extreme case and it’s safer. It’s how you train it.”"

    http://www.eurodressage.com/equestri...-having-choice

    The article is what I found after someone posted the video of Uta Graf riding bitless http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5XUq56P_I0

    So in does seem that there is interest in this approach. There seems to be alot of curiosity about how you can approach dressage (so far I've encountered bitless dressage, bareback dressage, and Western dressage) in some circles and it interests me. I like learning new things.

    Thank you.
    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #52
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    Great video; they both look lovely.

    My thoughts on unconventional/alternative training in general? There is a saying, you have to know the rules before you can break them, which is pretty much it in a nutshell for me. IW and Satchmo are able to do what they're doing so fluidly because IW is a fantastic rider and trained Satchmo using conventional methods, not despite them. Same with Uta. Know and use the rules (aka traditional dressage training techniques). Then when you break out the rainbows and butterflies, people will at least think you might have some clue that you know what you're talking about. Until then, not so much.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01


    10 members found this post helpful.

  13. #53
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    Obviously the exhibition of a rider able to perform various movements in dressage without a saddle and bridle display both riding ability and demonstrate the training already completed. This is a finished product so to speak.

    For a horse at a fairly rudamintary level we would expect there to be something more conventional while new things are being introduced to give the horse the best chance of grasping the concepts before they are confirmed.

    Werth has obviously taken great care to give both her horses and herself incredible success and the best odds for that

    Love it!
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #54
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    I have been riding my mare bareback this winter, with a halter......it makes ME a better rider. I SO HOPE my mare and I climb the levels, with a saddle, so that someday I can post a video half as good as hers. ALSO, she might be a bit heavy handed, but by goodness.....the woman has a fantastic seat and independent hands. What I would give to ride like her, on that much of a powerhouse!

    Oh and bareback, you cannot grip.....it really is a great way to develop your seat!


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  15. #55
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    I shared this video on Facebook a couple of days ago. I LOVED it. Too bad this thread has been derailed.
    Sheilah


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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by RTF View Post
    I have been riding my mare bareback this winter, with a halter......it makes ME a better rider. I SO HOPE my mare and I climb the levels, with a saddle, so that someday I can post a video half as good as hers. ALSO, she might be a bit heavy handed, but by goodness.....the woman has a fantastic seat and independent hands. What I would give to ride like her, on that much of a powerhouse!

    Oh and bareback, you cannot grip.....it really is a great way to develop your seat!
    I thought she was occasionally being heavy handed, but that article on bitless dressage said that sometimes you might find you have to use stronger aids (in the debate pro and con). But you cannot beat that seat -and on such a forward, athletic horse.

    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  17. #57
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    I first saw the video on a FB Page That Shall Not Be Named. The Godlike creator of said group made snarky comments about IW's seat and hands and said she should go back to basics. Many people (sadly) agreed with him and ripped the ride and rider to shreds. People will see what they want to see Said Creator then deleted the thread when too many people wanted him to post a video of his own riding to compare with those he so enjoys bashing.

    Great video, BTW. Loved the pirouette to piaffe. And certainly so did Isabel!



  18. #58
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    The Godlike creator of said group made snarky comments about IW's seat and hands and said she should go back to basics

    Dear God. Oh well consider the source. I can only guess it is the narcissistic and delusional nutbar reverend .


    3 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
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    I went to behold the video again, but it was gone. So I found it on Youtube for my personal list. Here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMo-w69I0WA


    Paula
    He is total garbage! Quick! Hide him on my trailer (Petstorejunkie).



  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crockpot View Post
    Dear God. Oh well consider the source. I can only guess it is the narcissistic and delusional nutbar reverend .
    Yep, it was He and his troops were ripping IW for bouncing and pulling Satchmo's head around (Oh those HANDS!!!!) When the reasonable folks tried to explain the sheer size and bounciness of the horse's gaits and the fluency of the ride, the most vehement bashers-of-all-that-is-modern-dressage got downright insulting (most of whom freely admit to NO dressage experience whatsoever , they just DONT LIKE IT). Led, of course, by their clueless leader.



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