[Dr. Doolittle]

but is simply too damned tactful--and/or concerned about the repercussions--to actually do it...?

This is an ongoing problem with me, but sometimes my frustration with these types comes to a head when I am stressed by ALL other aspects of life.



Examples:

My new BM is very opinionated, dismissive of me, and full of herself, she is "never wrong". About anything. I have confronted her (mildly) a few times and put my foot down, but I still feel as though I need to tiptoe around her if I am to ensure that she treats my horses (hostages!) well. She is pretty much like this to *everyone*, except her "special friends" (Grr), but it makes me feel like crap when I should be enjoying this precious and all too fleeting time with my weanling and my mare; instead I feel unwelcome at the barn, and as though I am a pain in HER ass (and I am, um, paying her!) The care is good and they are happy and in good health, so I have no plans to move them for the time being--but I stew and fret about it. I don't want to put my horses in any sort of jeopardy, and this BM is very experienced and competent; heaven knows it's hard to find that these days. As a result, I put up with her personality disorder (and grind my teeth about it.)

There are some posters on the Breeding Forum who deserve a good slap in the chops, they are mostly men (SHOCKER! ), and they get away with this obnoxious behavior; some folks call them on it (but they bat them aside and continue with their contemptuous dismissiveness and arrogant opining), and this, um, bothers me. On a bunch of levels.

Let's not even talk about the farriers who weigh in on the Horse Care Forum! (See above.)

My family says that I live in a dreamworld where I want it to be a Meritocracy, and that I need to get over it.

Anyone else suffer from this problem, and long to hire out the smackdown service?

If so, PLEASE VENT AND COMMISERATE HERE, and thank you!

Bless the Mods for these Off Topic Days, BTW

[JanM]

I think most of us were brought up to be nice, never make waves, and in the case of my family to be pushovers. I watched my parents never stand up to my mother's mother, people who hurt the kids, another boy that sicced a dog on my brother on the public street for no reason, another kid that bashed my brother's head into the sidewalk, and other ridiculous things. I watched that, and now react much differently. I think you consciously have to go through how you want to react to potential problems, and learn to stand up for yourself. And I would also shop for different barns, because i don't care how good the care is, you are a paying customer and have the right to be treated as such, and not have to worry about your animal's safety if you stand up to a bully. Bullies get away with as much as you let them, and being a doormat isn't the answer.

[Monica67]

I find it funny that even though you don't even mention names, by reading your vent, most everyone will know who the posters are that you are venting about.

In real life, I don't deal with it very well and tend to tell people off. Especially if my BO was like yours. Even if the care is top notch, you spend an awful lot of money to allow yourself to feel unwelcome.

One thing I have learned on the internets is you can't argue with someone else's ignorance.

[partlycloudy]

That's why we need thomas1 back.

[winfieldfarm]

Wait.... what would thomas1 add to this posting? just curious.

You can handle people like this two ways. treat them like an unruly and pushy horse. Keep your cool, don't raise your voice but in no uncertain terms, let them know that you are not one to mess with. sometimes personalities like this respect a person who gets in their face.

or

You manipulate them psychologically with "we're in this together" interaction. This takes a great deal of forethought and the ability to manage an interaction expertly. It's like hostage negotiation. Ya know the saying, Keep your friends close, your enemies closer. Well, it's like that. Inside, you know they are a complete waste of skin, a total pain in the arse. But on the outside, nothing you say or do lets on that you absolutely think they are twits.

The tough call is that this douche is responsible for you horses when you aren't around to witness their stupidity.

[Dr. Doolittle]

Jan, yes--I am working on this situation (and I agree with you)--the problem being that my baby horse is in a pretty much ideal situation for the time being; I am staying there primarily for that reason. It's the best thing for *her*, even though I don't get a chance to see or work with her as much as I would like. (It's very hard to find good boarding for babies any less than an hour's drive from where I live. :-/) The BM is "superficially cordial" to me, and from her standpoint she is just doing what she always does (in the most efficient and in her case *brusque* way possible.) I am just another client (a necessary nuisance when I have opinions about my animals ), and she has 90 horses under her care.

WRT bullies, you hit the nail on the head (and there are all forms of bullying; cyberspace has made it possible to be anonymous, unfortunately. (Well--on THIS board--"somewhat anonymous" )

The bullying you describe sounds horrific! I can't imagine standing by and allowing that to go on, you must carry some emotional baggage from that to this day..

Monica, Yeah...And that's the problem--you can't argue with other posters on the BB, it almost always winds up "devolving" into a trainwreck, with people becoming infantile, defensive, and then just plain rude. Ignorance doesn't automatically merit a nasty response (personally I roll my eyes, and find it humorous), and fortunately there are numerous nice and helpful posters on this board who attempt to "educate the ignorant" without making them feel foolish--it IS possible to do this. I have even done it myself a few times

And personally, I do NOT miss Thomas! There is only so much vitriol and contempt that I can stomach, and it is NOT funny when it turns personal, and becomes an attack by an arrogant, pretentious, ill-mannered blowhard--no matter HOW knowledgeable he is, or how satisfying it may be to see him verbally slap dumb people around (so good riddance!)

[Frank B]

I'd like to start at the top -- inside the DC Beltway. Too many Secret Service types, though.

[Dr. Doolittle]

Wait.... what would thomas1 add to this posting? just curious.

You can handle people like this two ways. treat them like an unruly and pushy horse. Keep your cool, don't raise your voice but in no uncertain terms, let them know that you are not one to mess with. sometimes personalities like this respect a person who gets in their face.

or

You manipulate them psychologically with "we're in this together" interaction. This takes a great deal of forethought and the ability to manage an interaction expertly. It's like hostage negotiation. Ya know the saying, Keep your friends close, your enemies closer. Well, it's like that. Inside, you know they are a complete waste of skin, a total pain in the arse. But on the outside, nothing you say or do lets on that you absolutely think they are twits.

The tough call is that this douche is responsible for you horses when you aren't around to witness their stupidity.

winfield, PERFECT!

Yes, exactly...

I have been using the first way, could I switch over to the second way, or is it too late at this point??

This BM has a good reputation, and is very experienced and knowledgeable, BUT she think that her way is "the only way" (fairly typical of long-time horsepeople who have been doing it one way for decades, and have had success with "that way"; this simply reinforces to them that this is "the only way"), but she is very dismissive of other ways of doing things, and is generally bossy and impatient.

I have learned to pick my battles with her.

My horses are healthy and happy, and as mentioned, it's difficult to find RELIABLE care (for babies especially), good pasture and T/O, good quality hay, etc. For the time being, I am sucking it up for the sake of the beasties, though will be looking for another situation where I will be happier. Probably a smaller operation where I will be allowed more autonomy.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I'd like to start at the top -- inside the DC Beltway. Too many Secret Service types, though.

[GoForAGallop]

.

[Adamantane]

It's interesting to me how my way of dealing with obnoxious overbearing behavior has changed (for the most part) over the years.

I will never back away from a confrontation over anything of consequence, though my way of dealing with it is different now. I once took great pride is being able to lacerate jerks, a skill I set gently in the toolbox and rarely dust off any longer, though to be sure it's still available.

But I find that in many cases the past 15 years or so, I just don't care what people say or do as long as they don't attack me directly. And when they do, while I still get very angry, with rare exceptions, I try to keep my rejoinders low key. [A few days ago one of those rare exceptions occurred, so I'm not claiming to be saintly.]

Maybe the difference over time is that I'm better at separating someone's bad behavior from the essential person behind that behavior. Yes, everyone's responsible and accountable, but to borrow a phrase from the Christian universe, "hate the sin but love the sinner". Loving is a bit over the top; I'd go for "hate the sin but try to figure out the sinner". I think the better I understand how people work, the greater my empathy.

When I do react I try to keep focused on what was objectionable rather than to attack the person. Sometimes I just feel sad for the person and the circumstances that have led them to behave badly.

This is not all about me, but the way the thread is constructed, I don't see any other way to respond other than to explain why I try to do or why.

[Dr. Doolittle]

It's interesting to me how my way of dealing with obnoxious overbearing behavior has changed (for the most part) over the years.

I will never back away from a confrontation over anything of consequence, though my way of dealing with it is different now. I once took great pride is being able to lacerate jerks, a skill I set gently in the toolbox and rarely dust off any longer, though to be sure it's still available.

But I find that in many cases the past 15 years or so, I just don't care what people say or do as long as they don't attack me directly. And when they do, while I still get very angry, with rare exceptions, I try to keep my rejoinders low key. [A few days ago one of those rare exceptions occurred, so I'm not claiming to be saintly.]

Maybe the difference over time is that I'm better at separating someone's bad behavior from the essential person behind that behavior. Yes, everyone's responsible and accountable, but to borrow a phrase from the Christian universe, "hate the sin but love the sinner". Loving is a bit over the top; I'd go for "hate the sin but try to figure out the sinner". I think the better I understand how people work, the greater my empathy.

When I do react I try to keep focused on what was objectionable rather than to attack the person. Sometimes I just feel sad for the person and the circumstances that have led them to behave badly.

This is not all about me, but the way the thread is constructed, I don't see any other way to respond other than to explain why I try to do or why.

That's pretty much what I was looking for!

This thread was part simple "vent", and part "what are your personal experiences with jerks like this, and what do you think/do"?

The older I get, the less I tend to care what people think of me--I have actually become more assertive as a result. However, I am never rude or mean or confrontational (I do a LOT of tongue biting), even when it might *actually* be warranted. The horse world is a small place, and I don't want to burn bridges!

[LauraKY]

Ohh I thought this was about people in daily interactions, not just crazy ass horse people!

I smacked down a middle-aged woman the other day. (I'm fresh off the college boat.) I was waiting in line at the pharmacy and there was some issue with the old lady in front, insurance not approving prescriptions or something. Yes, they should have opened another line, and yes, even I was annoyed that I was unable to just get my waiting prescription and go.

But this lady walked up and IMMEDIATELY started tapping her feet and huffing and going "omg..". So I turned her, a few people behind me, and said "You've been standing here for 30 seconds. Stop being a fu#king child."

Shut her right up.

(Now maybe I should go check in on the f-bomb thread. )

That's a bit over the top.

[GoForAGallop]

That's a bit over the top.

Eh, it's a bit over the top for someone to start throwing a childish fit when they've JUST walked up to the line, when the holdup is an old woman who just needs her medications and is the most frustrated party of the whole bunch.

[fordtraktor]

Being nasty to people rarely works. I am an attorney, so I deal with a lot of people who are frustrated with various situations. More often than not, people just want to talk (and someone to listen) and get out all the frustration, so I have mastered the art of the sympathetic ear. Then more often than not they walk away happy, even though nothing really changed at all. They don't really need you to DO anything, they just want some empathy.

If you take a confrontational approach, you can really blow a situation up into something it doesn't need to be. Lots of people think that if you don't stand up vociferously you must be a doormat. That's very shortsighted. I "win" far more with my honeypot approach than most people do with being aggressive. The end result for the client is typically far superior than the "sharks" can get.

Inside, however, I am a very sarcastic person and I too need somewhere to get it out. That's what the Interwebs are for.

[Hulk]

I think most of us were brought up to be nice, never make waves, and in the case of my family to be pushovers. I watched my parents never stand up to my mother's mother, people who hurt the kids, another boy that sicced a dog on my brother on the public street for no reason, another kid that bashed my brother's head into the sidewalk, and other ridiculous things. I watched that, and now react much differently. I think you consciously have to go through how you want to react to potential problems, and learn to stand up for yourself. And I would also shop for different barns, because i don't care how good the care is, you are a paying customer and have the right to be treated as such, and not have to worry about your animal's safety if you stand up to a bully. Bullies get away with as much as you let them, and being a doormat isn't the answer.

This was how I was raised too. It made me nothing but a big ol doormat. Now when people act badly or bullyish towards me, they get deleted from data base. This includes but is not limited to family members. Love this new system I have adopted. And since I started deleting people I feel so much better. Didnt know life could be so good. Wish I would have figured it out sooner. Life is too short to let jerks ruin it for you. People like that just get what they want through bad behavior.

[Long Spot]

Eh, it's a bit over the top for someone to start throwing a childish fit when they've JUST walked up to the line, when the holdup is an old woman who just needs her medications and is the most frustrated party of the whole bunch.

I dunno. I'm thinking turning around and saying "I know, I feel badly for her too. She's just as frustrated as we are." might have gotten your point across better.

[texan]

I don't agree with leaving the barn. I also don't think the BM is the one with the problem. You could move your horse and find yourself in the very same situation minus the good care. You just have to find a way to be more assertive (not rude) when dealing with her... "NO" is a good place to start. Never say yes but. Always say No, that is not how I want it done. Rinse and Repeat.

[Crackerdog]

If you are confrontational then you are no better than the people you are annoyed by. Take the amused approach, be sorry for the people who are miserable inside and who try to paint others with their brush, it's all water off a ducks back to me.

[ccoronios]

I found a card at a great little shop (Beyond Timbuktu, in Edwardsville, IL if anyone's interested) - and HAD to have it. It's hanging next to my desk.
"As much as I try to be an easygoing, stretch your wings and fly type...I just can't stop trying to burst people into flames with my mind"

Oh yeah..... :-)

C