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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lieb Schon View Post
    It's not about being marked down. We we were judged fairly. The question is, do the judges understand the rules? This situation makes me think , "maybe not?...."
    I'm like anyone else, and the appeal of dressage is the idea of an even playing field. This comment totally took me off guard. This is not meant to be opinion hour with the amateurs. I want a professional "r" or "R" judge's response, please.
    The judge was probably letting you just know that it isn't common....and thus you can spend your time and effort on things more important if you want...like reviewing your test, getting your mind in the game etc.

    The judge did NOT comment that braiding is not allowed. That would be different.

    If you want to braid the tail...than do it. But most do not. Same with eventing. There will be some braided...most will have their tails pulled or trimmed and a few will do nothing.

    A schooling show is all about schooling...and learning. Having a judge make a comment like that is TYPICAL. At a rec. show, you probaby wouldn't get any such comment....but at a schooling show I would expect them as the intent of the schooling show is to learn more than compete.
    Last edited by bornfreenowexpensive; Feb. 6, 2013 at 02:13 PM.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  2. #42
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    I have done it a lot and been complimented on turnout by judges.
    I do it because I like formal turnout and like my horse to have protection when in the pasture.
    Last edited by Equibrit; Feb. 6, 2013 at 04:03 PM.
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


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  3. #43
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    In the Canadian rules it states in one section that braiding is permitted, but the section about braiding only comments on mane braiding being permitted (but then says you can't put ribbons and such in the tail).

    I could see this leaving some room for interpretation, so is it possible the judge was Candian?

    The US rules are much clearer that tail braids are permitted, and as such I agree that the comment was innappropriate at a US show.
    Freeing worms from cans everywhere!



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    I have done it a lot and been complimented on turnut by judges.
    I do it because I like formal turnout and like my horse to have protection when in the pasture.
    Confused... how does braiding for a show protect your horse when in the pasture? You leave the show braid in when you get home and turn out?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  5. #45
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    my take on this is that the judge probably figured out that you were new the dressage ring - as you mentioned it was your first test, there were probably a lot of hints that you were new. So the comment was probably meant as more of a comment to let you know the fashion trend more than anything else.

    I bet if you looked around you would not have seen many braided tails - it's the fashion and part of the whole picture. And as part of the picture it probably helped to let the judge know that you were new and she was just trying to help you.

    I see nothing wrong with bucking a trend - I have done it - dressage braids in a breed class that is geared towards hunters - and no braided tail. Do what you want imo - personally, I don't like braided tails and feel it would affect the impression of the judge and cause some degree of tightness in the tail.

    making a mountain out of a mole hill. I would look to what you can improve in the actual test instead of worrying about this imo.


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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Confused... how does braiding for a show protect your horse when in the pasture? You leave the show braid in when you get home and turn out?!


    Err no duh. You do not need to trim the top of the tail if you braid, in fact it's better left as nature intended..
    ... _. ._ .._. .._


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equibrit View Post
    Err no duh. You do not need to trim the top of the tail if you braid, in fact it's better left as nature intended..
    Still not following. So what you're saying is an unpulled tail provides better protection than a pulled tail. Agree.

    What does that have to do with braiding for a show? You can show dressage in an unbraided tail whether the top is pulled or not?!

    Am I misunderstanding?
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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  8. #48
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    One also should consider that the scribes are madly scribbling notes. Even at TL and 1st it can be tough to keep up with the judges comments. This can make the comments come across as harsh or unkind when in reality the scribe was just capturing the key concepts rather than what the judge spoke word for word. Without any way of discerning tone or exact verbiage I would just interpret it to be intended as a helpful comment and then do with it whatever you would like within the rules.

    I hear SO many competitors interpreting the comments on their tests in the most negative possible way.... You'd think all judges are horribly awful people. In reality the vast majority of judges are rooting for you to succeed and want to be as helpful as possible. Give them the benefit of the doubt. It will make showing far more fun and helpful.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    One also should consider that the scribes are madly scribbling notes. Even at TL and 1st it can be tough to keep up with the judges comments. This can make the comments come across as harsh or unkind when in reality the scribe was just capturing the key concepts rather than what the judge spoke word for word.
    In many years of scribing for many judges, I have never written the final comments for the judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb


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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    Still not following. So what you're saying is an unpulled tail provides better protection than a pulled tail. Agree.

    What does that have to do with braiding for a show? You can show dressage in an unbraided tail whether the top is pulled or not?!

    Am I misunderstanding?
    The point is that a braided tail shows off the horse's hind end shape welll and gives a neat appearance similar to the goals with pulling or triming BUT allows them to leave the top natural for the protection that gives in the field.

    It is a personal preference.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    In many years of scribing for many judges, I have never written the final comments for the judge.
    Sorry, you're correct... I was editing when the boss popped by at work. I hit submit without going back finish after he wandered off

    The judge should be the one writing the end comments but I intended to say that the same is true for them. While I often feel like it takes foooorever for the bell to ring, it is in reality a very short amount of time. For the judges that are actually trying to stay on schedule there is very little time between rides for the comments. They are usually in exactly the same position as the scribes, scribbling out thoughts quickly and without time for linguistic flourishes.

    My point is, I think we tend to take all of the comments made on our tests personally and so many people assume the most negative interpretation. I find that is rarely the way the judge intended the comments.



  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    Sorry, you're correct... I was editing when the boss popped by at work. I hit submit without going back finish after he wandered off

    The judge should be the one writing the end comments but I intended to say that the same is true for them. While I often feel like it takes foooorever for the bell to ring, it is in reality a very short amount of time. For the judges that are actually trying to stay on schedule there is very little time between rides for the comments. They are usually in exactly the same position as the scribes, scribbling out thoughts quickly and without time for linguistic flourishes.

    My point is, I think we tend to take all of the comments made on our tests personally and so many people assume the most negative interpretation. I find that is rarely the way the judge intended the comments.

    I scribe a great deal. And there are two international judges for which the scribe writes the final comments (that I know of).

    Anyway. A great deal made over not a big deal.



  13. #53
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    As a judge (British not American) I think it is totally inappropriate to make comments re turnout on a dressage sheet!! I do not think it would go down to well with our ruling body in the UK if judges started doing this!!

    As long as the rules are not being broken then it is entirely at the competitors discretion to plait or not the mane and/or tail.

    There's lots of things I see day to day that I don't personally like ie people wearing white gloves with cream or beige breeches, (actually I hate beige breeches full stop!!!) big mane plaits, taped plaits, funny shaped saddlecloths etc etc but I would never comment on these things because other people like them and they are not against the rules.

    I don't like pulled or plaited tails.....all my horses are 'au naturel' in that respect but I also hate feathers on legs and long manes, others disagree and that's fine as long as no-one is breaking the rules.

    It's nice to see riders have made an effort to turn themselves out smartly but I'm only really interested in how the horse goes at the end of the day. Turn out has NO effect on the marks whatsoever and therefore has no place being commented on IMHO.


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  14. #54
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    I want a professional "r" or "R" judge's response, please.
    I haven't made it past the beginning of this thread, sorry if you've already gotten your answer, if so mine can simply be another judge's perspective to add to the pot...

    You can braid the tail. But most people usually don't. There are things which are in fashion and which are done by the majority of competitors, so they become accepted as the norm. Braiding tails is something which simply isn't done by dressage riders (not a single one I can think of.)

    If I were judging you at a schooling show and I saw your horse's tail braided, I'd assume you didn't know better. Depending on how much time I had I might comment on it TO HELP YOU if it was a schooling show. It would have no bearing on your score at all. But most people go to schooling shows in preparation for rated shows, and letting you know tails aren't braided for dressage helps you prepare for future shows and rated shows. Would you prefer the heads up, or would you prefer to arrive at your first rated show and realize you look entirely out of place?

    A braided tail screams "beginner, amateur, hunter crossover, dressage newbie". It sounds like you spent a lot of time on your horse's appearance, presumably so she'd look nice, is ""beginner, amateur, hunter crossover, dressage newbie" the message you want to send?

    We (judges) are not the enemy. Most of us are rooting for you! I would not assume the worst from the judge's comment, I'd assume she was trying to help.
    "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." George Burns


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  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by RedmondDressage View Post
    Sorry, you're correct... I was editing when the boss popped by at work. I hit submit without going back finish after he wandered off

    ...
    How many times have I been caught "Cothing" at work ?

    Luv this thread guys especially the mountain being made of the molehill. Keep it up and I'll pop some corn and pour the glass when I get home

    P.S. I hate braiding - its all I can do to do a Euro mane with the big fat braids, tie them off with some wool or bands and be done with it! Tails? Pas de question!!!!


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  16. #56
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    I'm also amused at the mountain out of a molehill. It's interesting how the OP didn't bother to talk to the judge at the show but wants ONLY a judge to respond on a public bb. Oh I have been educated by this thread but not about braiding tails...


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  17. #57
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    I don't think it's that big of a deal. Maybe the judge, like people have said, was trying to 'help' you. Or he/she was making an assumption that you don't know the rules/turnout/etc. Some judges are quite particular with regards to turnout. I've had a judge tell me to learn my test before (OT: I had a reader, no mistakes or anything...)... anyway, it's not that big of a deal, maybe just a little shocking to read after a test...



  18. #58
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    There isn't really a place in the score for "well muscled hind end" to show up, is there?! Does it really matter if you're beautifully turned out but have an unpulled tail?! Isn't the judge more likely to notice a braided tail in a "that doesn't belong" way than to focusd on how it sets off the booty?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  19. #59
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    My client has braided her horses tail and its looks lovely. It does not impact how he moves under saddle. She has gotten complements on it from other competitors. I am fine with it. I think it suits this horse. He has a big haunch and carries his tail low and quiet so it looks nice without being distracting. On my own OTTB who carried his thin tail high and out to being with it looked ridiculous (and that was for a hunter show!)! But being a dark brown bay he looked stunning in the white bands on his mane.

    If she or I received a comment about tail braiding, bands, quarter marks etc. then I must be doing everything else well.....right?

    Tempest in a teapot!

    This is up there with quarter marks. I love them and when they are done right they are the cherry on top! Some people have an apoplexy about them!

    If it looks good, is legal then go for it! Nothing wrong with feeling like you look good to boost confidence! A huge, major part is being ready to ride the hell out of the test. Another small part is liking how you and your horse are turned out.

    I have had had several "S" judges tell me they are too busy looking at how well (or not) the horse and rider are doing the prescribed movements to notice pads, jacket color, stock tie design etc. I know this because I asked about white bands, quarter markers, white gloves, beige britches, stock ties & pins and other fashion choices! It is the TD & ring stewards job to make sure horse and rider are legal not fashion models!
    "You're horse is behind the vertical!"
    "Of course he's behind the vertical, I haven't jumped it yet!"
    - NLK
    "I am a sand dancer... just here for the jumps!" - Schrammo
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  20. #60
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    The phrasing of the comment sounds similar to how a very popular open show judge made comments to me when I was ring steward. She also judges dressage shows, but I do not recall if she has letters or not. She would say thing like "illegal whip," and "that flank cinch is too loose and dangerous, needs to be fixed," no more, no less. Very blunt, very direct, and very good for me to understand that she did not mean anything but what she said. She did not mark people down for these at all (it was a schooling show) but she certainly did not go about with the attitude that everything was A-OK.

    I do not see this as a huge deal. So the judge made the comment that tails are generally not braided in dressage in a less-than-polite phrasing. So what? It happens. Maybe they were pressed for time and just jotted down the note, maybe they are an asshole. Either way, if it did not affect the score I would not think of it as a big deal. I also think that your turnout should not be the thing that first pops into a judge's head when they think back on your ride, good or bad. Either way, it means you did not do something quite right in your test.


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