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  1. #1
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    Default Can we ever be prepared enough?(money wise)

    Hi, this is not a Doomsday type of thing. From mine and a friends personal lives can we ever be financially prepared enough? Discussion for and against Please!
    Strange how much you've got to know Before you know how little you know. Anonymous



  2. #2
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    Default

    Bumping because I was wondering if anyone has any experience planning for the unforeseen?(i.e. job loss, medical situations, etc...)
    Strange how much you've got to know Before you know how little you know. Anonymous



  3. #3
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    Mar. 18, 2005
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    Default

    Not us don't have the money to be preppared for something like that. Can't even afford insurance rarely can we afford xtra's. I have scrimped and saved change to beable to buy another horse/mule as mine died last year. And yes I can afford to care for another one as I kept our budget the same as if I still had my horse. so no problems there.


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  4. #4
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    Default

    Yes, you can.

    Look, there *is* a dollar amount out there that you'll need if you projected how long you'd live. Financial planners make these calculations all the time.

    You buy insurance for the uber-bad/expensive and unpredicted.

    If you are magnificently wealthy, you self-insure for stuff of the Big-n-Horrible variety. But most of the people you and I would consider very wealth still buy insurance of different sorts.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  5. #5
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    Jan. 20, 2008
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    Default

    I say the answer is "no". I've had that dollar amount suggested by professionals many times over, and I've had to wipe it out due to medical emergencies and other life circumstances. We have excellent insurance, for the most part spend wisely, do what we should. Sometimes things just happen.
    Hope Blooming- Life with Chronic Pancreatitis

    My blog: Life with Pancreatitis


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  6. #6
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    Jul. 26, 2007
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    Default Maybe not, but try anyway

    So many rules that financial planners, insurers, etc. use have been rendered less relevant by the current economy (manufacturing jobs disappearing and not coming back, which also means manufacturer supervisory jobs disappearing and not coming back, which means communities losing people rather than gaining them, which means fewer goods and services being bought and sold in the community, etc.) that I think we all need to rethink our preparedness. Can you be prepared for anything? Not unless you're really doing awesome, financially.

    But, you still have to try (I think). You still have to do the best you can, because being partly prepared is better than not prepared at all.



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SFrost View Post
    I say the answer is "no". I've had that dollar amount suggested by professionals many times over, and I've had to wipe it out due to medical emergencies and other life circumstances. We have excellent insurance, for the most part spend wisely, do what we should. Sometimes things just happen.
    I work with other people's medical bills every day, and I am here to tell you the answer is absolutely NO, no you can't. Insurance will only partially help, and sometimes not at all. The insurance company's job is to figure out ways NOT to pay for your treatment and care. So please, DON'T be naive enough to feel you are relatively protected if you have insurance. You're not. Even with the extra protections provided by Obamacare, the reality is that if you don't have a million dollars a year guaranteed income for life, you WILL be filing for bankruptcy over medical bills at some point. It sucks, but it's the truth that no overpriced "financial planner" is ever going to tell you.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief



  8. #8
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    I think saying that everyone without a million dollars a year will file for bankruptcy is a little over the top!


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acertainsmile View Post
    I think saying that everyone without a million dollars a year will file for bankruptcy is a little over the top!
    Think what you want. No matter how good you think your insurance is, no matter if you have secondary insurance, you are ONE catastrophic injury or terminal illness away from bankruptcy court.
    "The standard you walk by is the standard you accept."--Lt. Gen. David Morrison, Austalian Army Chief


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  10. #10
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    Jan. 20, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    I work with other people's medical bills every day, and I am here to tell you the answer is absolutely NO, no you can't. Insurance will only partially help, and sometimes not at all. The insurance company's job is to figure out ways NOT to pay for your treatment and care. So please, DON'T be naive enough to feel you are relatively protected if you have insurance. You're not. Even with the extra protections provided by Obamacare, the reality is that if you don't have a million dollars a year guaranteed income for life, you WILL be filing for bankruptcy over medical bills at some point. It sucks, but it's the truth that no overpriced "financial planner" is ever going to tell you.

    That is the point I was making with my post. There will never be enough. I have GREAT insurance, but still there have been times we've been screwed. Thankfully we were able to pay things off slowly since we were wiped out but it can happen again. Insurance will never give me a false sense of comfort.

    I also think though that it make me realize that I should enjoy my life and not try to worry all the time about money. Of course I don't want stress of being broke, but I don't think that DH and I should deny ourselves.

    As for the million dollar thing, I agree with you. One of the potential surgeries I may have to have costs, with follow-ups and meds, and new routine life long medical needs, around 700K. And that's just the number without complications.
    Hope Blooming- Life with Chronic Pancreatitis

    My blog: Life with Pancreatitis



  11. #11
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    I watched my family's finances go to hell when I was in college. It was a bad experience, but it left me with a zen attitude toward "enough." You can't protect yourself against the future. You can be responsible, you can save 50% of every paycheck, you can not smoke, you can jog and listen to smooth jazz, but you will never be safe. Should you try to have a safety net? Absolutely. Should you worry about it? No. Not that much. Be smart, forgive yourself when you're stupid, and just keep getting back in the game when some black swan event hits you. Everybody dies, nobody wins.


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  12. #12
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    Feb. 15, 2004
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    I am so grateful that I saved as much as I could when I was working full time from home. But, you know what, now that I have to take the money from my savings, it is scary! I feel like I am scrimping even more than before. I have been told time and time again that I can take out a good amount every year. Plus, combined with my husband's savings, we are fine. I still can't...I count every penny.
    I am grateful too to live in Canada where medical bills are not a menace. At least, I know I can get the care, the tests, the surgeries, etc. without going bankrupt. This does not mean that it would not cost a lot either. But at least, the initial expenses would be taken care of.
    My major monthly expense is food... and we do not go out! the house is paid for - no mortgage, no car payments, no cc debt. Still.
    And I am just about ready to take on another retired horse I love and I took care of him for 5 years while his owner was MIA.. . She came back... took him back and 5 months later. She admits she can't afford him and he has to go! It just means I will scrimp a bit more...
    I don't buy lottery tickets... maybe I should!



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Think what you want. No matter how good you think your insurance is, no matter if you have secondary insurance, you are ONE catastrophic injury or terminal illness away from bankruptcy court.
    I disagree with this. I've had years (yes, with an "s") where my medical expenses exceeded $500,000. I have two *fantastic* insurances that coordinate benefits and my family and I have not seen hide nor hair of a medical bill in almost 15 years. And we've thrown some serious doozies at them; experimental treatments for autoimmune disease (one drug was 13K a MONTH), recurrent septicemia (almost 6 months total in the hospital, 3 in the ICU), upwards of 10 hospitalizations in a year at top tier (cost-wise) hospitals. Treatments/appointments/hospitalizations all over the country...even "medically necessary" cosmetic surgery (the quotes are only because it was a boarder line issue; needed to be done but they didn't HAVE to pay for it. But they did. To the tune of almost $45,000). So this is not the case for everyone, nor is it the case for every insurance.

    OP, unless you're in the 1% of the 1%, I don't know if it's possible to be 110% prepared at all times for any life-altering financial event, but I do my best to come as close to that as possible. If everything went to pot tomorrow and I lost my health insurance, there's enough in saved liquid assets that I could stay afloat (with the animals and all properties) for 2-3 years. If I paired down to one property and just the necessities (and changed nothing with the animals), I could survive for close to 10 years. If there was something catastrophic that happened at that point? Well, that's a different story. But I would have to assume that 10 years (or even 2-3) would be ample enough time to get back on my feet, get a job/new job/job with better benefits (whatever the situation warranted at that time), and start saving again.

    Do I have a million dollars a year coming in? No. Do I have savings sufficient to support myself for an appropriate period of time? Yes. Would a six figure catastrophe hurt like hell? You betcha. Would it sink me? No.
    Nine out of ten times, you'll get it wrong...but it's that tenth time that you get it right that makes all the difference.



  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Think what you want. No matter how good you think your insurance is, no matter if you have secondary insurance, you are ONE catastrophic injury or terminal illness away from bankruptcy court.

    is this still true if one makes payment arrangements with the medical org?
    my dad told me that as long as they receive a good faith payment every month they will not sue for the balance.
    so if i sent in a hundred dollars a month on a bazillion dollar bill for the rest of my life--then what? will they not accept it? demand a lump sum payment?
    and what about people with no assets?



  15. #15
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    It is hard to figure out how much money you will need. Financial planners used to say you could plan on taking 8% out of your 401k in retirement. That meant you needed 500,000 to generate $40,000 in income. If you can save the maximum $16,000 per year in the $401k, that $500,000 was doable. Now, some of the financial planners are saying a 3% yield is more realistic. That means you need $1.3 million in the 401k account to generate that $40,000 in income. Even if you save the maximum allowed per year, you are highly unlikely to have $1.3 million in the account at retirement. Most people can't even save the maximum per year. If you earn $45,000 per year, it is hard to put 1/3 into retirement savings. In this country, we need to do something to increase the wages of the middle class. Then, all of us need to try to save more.


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  16. #16
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    so what about people who are already retired and living on their pension and social security? i know several who have no additional savings or assets and are doing alright. not wealthy but not scared either-as long as the checks keep coming in that is.



  17. #17
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    I invested a good part of my adult life in education...getting multiple degrees. I realized that I needed to learn how to manage and invest the fruits of my labors or there would not be enough for my retirement to support my herd. I have spent the last five or so more years learning how to invest and manage my IRA and savings. I continue to learn and invest in my knowledge. I don't allow a 'money manager' to control my funds and I "actively" trade stock market options.
    It takes a great deal of time and dedication but I am starting to reap the benefits of my "new" education. There is something very satisfying to me to be able to take control of my finances and not be dependent on a job. I do work as a consultant but even at the high dollar /per hour I charge for my skills I can still make more with well placed investments.



  18. #18
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    I work with other people's medical bills every day, and I am here to tell you the answer is absolutely NO, no you can't. Insurance will only partially help, and sometimes not at all. The insurance company's job is to figure out ways NOT to pay for your treatment and care. So please, DON'T be naive enough to feel you are relatively protected if you have insurance. You're not. Even with the extra protections provided by Obamacare, the reality is that if you don't have a million dollars a year guaranteed income for life, you WILL be filing for bankruptcy over medical bills at some point. It sucks, but it's the truth that no overpriced "financial planner" is ever going to tell you.
    If what you say is anything LIKE true, that's some pretty goddam good incentive to stop assuming that doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals are the primary answer to all problems and GET BUSY on those "lifestyle changes" everyone pays lip service to and no one does.

    Also: The whole concept of "retirement" is going to have to change--it is an anachronism from the days of dirty, dangerous, highly physical factory work in the time before OSHA--if you retired at 65, around the time you'd be physically unable to do that work anymore, they could pretty much count on maintaining you 3 to 5 years until you kicked off--when all these conventions began, the average male's life expectancy was about 68!

    Doesn't work today. The idea that a guy with a white-collar cubicle job is gong to retire at 65 and the company is going to maintain him all-expense-paid for 25-35 years is completely unrealistic! No system on earth can support large numbers of people doing that. My parents' generation (late 70's now) will be the last. Most people also are not going to have even $100K in savings, let alone 3 or 4 million. Just. Not. Happening!

    So instead of worrying about "retirement" in the traditional sense of the rocking chair and shuffleboard, be thinking about what 2nd career you want after you age out of the first one. Best idea--starting your own business!



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by War Admiral View Post
    Think what you want. No matter how good you think your insurance is, no matter if you have secondary insurance, you are ONE catastrophic injury or terminal illness away from bankruptcy court.
    But not everyone has a catastrophic injury or termial illness, so stating that everyone will have to file bankruptcy over medical bills (except those $1M earners) is a bit unrealistic.



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Also: The whole concept of "retirement" is going to have to change--it is an anachronism from the days of dirty, dangerous, highly physical factory work in the time before OSHA... Doesn't work today. The idea that a guy with a white-collar cubicle job is gong to retire at 65 and the company is going to maintain him all-expense-paid for 25-35 years is completely unrealistic! No system on earth can support large numbers of people doing that.
    The only retirement plans that operate like the above are government pension plans. For private retirements, the workers create the savings, with possibly matching funds if the company chooses to do so.

    And the idea that retirement is a failed experiment is bizarre. Retirement isn't some entitlement program from an age of steel workers and miners. It was in part a resignation to the truth that the human body begins to deteriorate after a certain age. To give an example - a 60-year-old man is much more likely to get cancer than a 30-year-old man. From a purely practical standpoint, the value of decades of experience is balanced by the increasing risk you're going to suddenly lose a vital worker to death or disability. Even if the loss is temporary, and the worker can return, it's a major disruption. And that's just the cube jobs. For the vast number of "service jobs" out there, the backbreaking labor issue still applies. The most dangerous job in America isn't being a cop or a fireman - it's being a maid. They have virtually 100% workplace injuries from the endless, repetitive physical labor of changing beds, vacuuming, etc.



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