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  1. #121
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    Oct. 14, 2012
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    Can I just say thank you. While there are a few I completely disagree with it is so nice to see that the world is full of people who are more open than I thought. I'm a military spouse so surrounded by the ultra-conservative values I hate. I forget that the military is not really a microcosm of the rest of the world! Thanks for reminding me.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  2. #122
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    Nov. 13, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy
    Prove to me there is a gay gene. How about a pedophile gene. A school shooter gene. A woman who prefers to sleep with her young male students gene. A fat gene . A alcoholic gene. A drug addiction gene?
    Okay.

    Other posters have already posted research about genetic predisposition to non-heterosexuality, so I'll leave that one alone.

    Pedophile gene: In 2011 Rainero et al. published a study that suggested that a mutation on the progranulin gene may predispose a person to pedophilia. (Source). Why is this important? Because if pedophilia is caused by a genetic mutation, we can treat it as a medical illness.

    A "woman who prefers to sleep with her young male students" gene: the Rainero et al. study may apply to this as well, depending on the age of the students, but there's also a biological imperative. Paraphrasing Dawkins: the goal of a gene, and thus the motivation of an organism, is to reproduce itself. Therefore an organism is concerned with successful reproduction of its genetic material. Sperm viability decreases as men age, just as egg viability decreases as women do. It therefore makes biological sense, in light of the imperative to produce viable offspring, for older women to look for younger men. Just as it makes biological sense for older men to look for younger women. (Do humans have the capacity to overcome their genes? Sure- to an extent. I'm predisposed genetically to store fat in my behind, and I can work to overcome that by diet and exercise. On the other hand, my eyesight is limited by my genetics and I can't override that.)

    A "school shooter" gene: This entirely depends on what you consider responsible for school shootings. Problems with impulse control? Mental illness? Blind rage? Revenge? If you can be more specific on your cause of choice, I'll find the research.

    A "fat gene": beyond genetic predispositions to handle insulin, leptin, etc. this recent study identified a genetic predisposition to obesity in mice. Some of the genes involved correspond to the same in human genes.

    Alcoholic gene/drug addiction gene: we'll treat alcohol as a drug, but a lot of the more recent research does explicitly apply to both. As it happens, according to the National Institute for Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, "that genes are responsible for about half of the risk for alcoholism." (Source) Here are three.

    Any questions?

    I have one. Prove to me that you've made a solid effort to investigate any potential cause of non-heterosexuality beyond your belief that it's a personal choice. And then support your belief that it's a personal choice, using something other than the Bible. I think we can agree that while Christianity believes the Bible to be the word of God, said word was transcribed by humans, and "to err is human; to forgive, divine." It's one of the reasons that most rely on the interpretations and studies of spiritual leaders rather than making their own interpretations of holy writ. Some interpretation is often necessary.

    Incidentally, let's collectively review Matthew 7:1.
    "I'm not always sarcastic. Sometimes I'm asleep."
    - Harry Dresden

    Horse Isle 2: Legend of the Esrohs LifeCycle Breeding and competition MMORPG


    10 members found this post helpful.

  3. #123
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    Nov. 5, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne FS View Post
    Yes, and the like-minded similar interest here is Scouting.

    According to you, there'd have to be separate scout troops with scout leaders who only have sex in the missionary position, and separate troops with scout leaders who like to role play in bed, and separate troops with scout leaders who use toys, or who like doggie style, or who have only dated brunettes, or leaders & scouts who like the NY Giants and hate the NE Patriots, and vice versa. Don't you see how crazy it is to base the decision on who can be a Scout on something that has nothing to do with teaching camping & woodlore?
    Holy cow! How you arrived at that conclusion, I will never know. I would seem you are the one hung up on the sex!
    The point is it is a private club, they can include or exclude anyone they want. And you are free to start a club that is open to everyone or not. If I don't agree with them, I will go somewhere else. I am not going to whine, "but it's not fair! They must accept me!" No, they don't. Tolerance is different than acceptance.
    It is not the end of the world if the Boy Scouts does or doesn't exist either. There are other ways to teach your kids outdoor skills.



  4. #124
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    Feb. 4, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Who cares if someone chooses to have sex with another consenting adult?

    Who cares if someone chooses to have sex with another consenting adult fat person or thin person?

    Or another consenting Christian adult or Jewish adult or Muslim adult?

    Or another consenting Black adult or Asian adult?


    Why does it even matter if being gay is a choice or not. I don't believe it is a choice, but to me it doesn't even matter.

    If you don't want to date a Black person, you don't have to. Someone else may choose to. If you don't want to date White people, fine. If you want to date fat people but not thin people -also your call. No one is forcing YOU to date a thin female Jew just because THEY are dating a thin female Jew. Is it possible people could be allowed to CHOOSE (if you must) a thin Jew or whatever else subcategory without you feeling the need to bestow or withold your approval?

    So if someone else wants to date a man with tatoos who is Muslim ...whotf cares?
    And why does it make any difference if that "someone else" who is doing this potential dating is male or female for you to randomly from your throne determine whether that's ok with you?


    Similarly what's it to you who plays what role?
    If I want to buzz cut my hair, gain 50 lbs, and wear carhartts all day long and the guy I am seeing decides he wants to wear a damn dress, is there some reason you feel God appointed you the fashion police here? Before we consider this potential course of action should we check in with you first?

    And do I get to then make judgment on your sexual orientation based on you and your partner's appearance? Because if sweatpants are allowed in public in your situation, I may have to consider your relationship Unnatural. My parents are Atheists and raised me that that is just WRONG. Also, please detail the relative weights of you and your spouse so I can decide who is playing the man. Perhaps I can hold up a picture of you next to whatever standard of femininity is to hand in the nearest Victoria's Secret catalog and assess whether or not you are purposefully playing the man? If you don't have a washboard stomach and curvy hips, ...I don't know, seems awfully manly...
    I mean, do I ALSO get to decide what is a "feminine enough" appearance for a woman? Or just you?
    Meup...will you marry me? (Just to piss off Candyappy, since I'm a lady...LOLOL)


    7 members found this post helpful.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by loshad View Post
    Because if it is a choice, people like candyappy can smugly continue to condemn people to hell for violating their moral code regardless of whether or not the "condemned" folk follow that code or believe in her deity. It is far easier to condemn people as sinners than it is to love and accept them the way they were made.

    And yes, there are numerous studies demonstrating that homosexuality is genetic. My brother -- a microbiologist -- was telling me about colleagues who have been able to make animals that are straight, gay, bi, and asexual depending on how they manipulate the genes. The studies will be out there if you look.

    I'll say it again: Bigotry and discrimination are choices. Sexuality is not.
    People like that don't believe science when it comes to anything else (dinosaurs, evolution, age of the earth, yada yada yada), so why would they believe that gay people are born and not made through choice? Sad. Science and faith don't really go together, unfortunately...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #126
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    Sep. 18, 2000
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    Tatertown, KY, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    The practice of any religion that is based on any other foundation for salvation then the blood of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross, His death, burial and resurrection is flawed and deceptive. Salvation is- God's grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. There is only one way, not many.
    Any religion which condemns other religions as flawed and deceptive and declares that it is the only way is flawed and deceptive.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #127
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    Mar. 30, 2007
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    "Blub blub blub blub glub blub glub blub", said the fish.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #128
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    Aug. 3, 2004
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    San Francisco
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    sure it's a private organization and many of the people who have supported it over the years want it to change.

    and it is a big private organization.

    in the early 60s I remember the country club that my parents belonged to had a men's only lounge. lots of business took place in that room and women were kept out not only of the room but of the chance to do business.

    granted, most of the women in the club at that time were only doing business with the junior league.

    keep the black people away, keep the women away, keep the gays away.

    who will be there to complain when they want to keep you away?
    A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #129
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    Alabama
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    threedog-I'm assuming that the economic reasons that you were supposed to marry the in-laws made sense then, because women didn't have their own means of support. Remember that it hasn't been all that long that women were accepted in the workforce in this country, or weren't expected to quit work when they married. I'm not sure that women had the right to own property and control their own money into some of the 20th century. It's amazing how things change isn't it?
    Last edited by JanM; Feb. 8, 2013 at 10:49 AM.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  10. #130
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimpsoMatt View Post
    Any religion which condemns other religions as flawed and deceptive and declares that it is the only way is flawed and deceptive.
    If nothing else because, when you start with the premise that any one God made it all, well, why did he make the rest of the world, all those that have other God/s?

    If He truly made all, well, better not be too ugly to others, even the horrible gay people, that choose not to be like everyone else.
    He may come down on you for being intransigent, even if He did make you intransigent also.



  11. #131
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Lexington, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Couture TB View Post
    Wow. I feel quite sorry for you. People do not choose to be gay and gay people are not in slaved into the life style. And I feel very sorry for the ones who are being forced to hide who they are from their family and so called friends
    Let me tell you about my daughter's best friend. He's from western KY, in the bible belt. He told his parents he was gay when he was 15 and they sent him to pray the gay away camp. He pretended, and pretended he was straight, all the way through his first year of college. He even dated a fellow girl student. They broke up (on his initiative) when he decided he couldn't live a lie anymore. He came out to his fellow students and family.

    His ex-girlfriend spit in his face and refused to sit near him in class. His so -called friends (the religious ones) refused to touch him or talk to him. They posted horrible comments on his facebook page until he finally had to take it down. His family disowned him.

    He's come through it stronger, he has new friends now, still misses his family. And this was done to him in the name of religion.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  12. #132
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    Aug. 6, 2002
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    NJ, USA
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    Thanks goodness he made it through all that intact. What a strong person he must be. The world needs way more of sort your daughter's best friend is, and way less of his family & ex! Tell him a stranger from NJ is proud of him.

    These stories would be unbearable except I feel strongly we are winning - the rational & compassionate people are drowning out the judgemental close minded ones, more and more, year by year.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #133
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    Aug. 3, 2004
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    on of my favorite bumper stickers is:

    Who would Jesus hate?
    A man must love a thing very much if he not only practices it without any hope of fame or money, but even practices it without any hope of doing it well.--G. K. Chesterton


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #134
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    Apr. 2, 2009
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    North Carolina
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    If anyone wants "proof" of the genetic realities of homosexuality, all you have to do is hop over to Google Scholar and read the literature. It's miles deep. As I stated previous, there are multiple other animal species that practice it. There is literally a mountain of peer-reviewed ACTUAL research out there on it and all those others in the list higher on the page. Whether you take the time to read them or not does not make them disappear.

    Although even as a biologist, I find genetics papers painful to read, it's easier if you skip the methods part. Not that I think the above will actually do so. Facts are so inconvenient.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  15. #135
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    Oct. 25, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Let me tell you about my daughter's best friend. He's from western KY, in the bible belt. He told his parents he was gay when he was 15 and they sent him to pray the gay away camp. He pretended, and pretended he was straight, all the way through his first year of college. He even dated a fellow girl student. They broke up (on his initiative) when he decided he couldn't live a lie anymore. He came out to his fellow students and family.

    His ex-girlfriend spit in his face and refused to sit near him in class. His so -called friends (the religious ones) refused to touch him or talk to him. They posted horrible comments on his facebook page until he finally had to take it down. His family disowned him.

    He's come through it stronger, he has new friends now, still misses his family. And this was done to him in the name of religion.
    Yep! That's thet-thar "Christian Lifestyle" Candyappy mentioned. The one that hasn't got anything to do with the teachings of Jesus, who would probably be breaking bread in a homeless shelter for AIDS victims if he was here.

    Verily, the American Taliban will receive their reward . . .


    6 members found this post helpful.

  16. #136
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    Verily, the American Taliban will receive their reward . . .
    you are just a meany, calling them that!

    </sarcasm>
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.


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  17. #137
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    The government is actually running "American Taliban" scenarios because of the increase in radical right-wing Christian-fundamentalist terrorism over the past few years. Most of it, you'll never hear about but it's out there. The military has had a big problem with young men from those groups joining up, getting training, and dropping out to pass along those skills to their membership base.
    Thus do we growl that our big toes have, at this moment, been thrown up from below!


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  18. #138
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    There was a study on the right wing terror Christian groups a couple of years ago, and IIRC it was suppressed...because we all know that the only terrorists are Muslim.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  19. #139
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    May. 4, 2003
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    Not plannng to get into the debate - but it is great to read so many liberal minded, progressive views on this thread. People who are broad minded, and thoughtful, too.

    You know, we have gay marriage in Canada, and the sky did not fall in - there is not so much as a second look at gay couples and they are protected under the law.

    Homosexuality does not = pedophelia.
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post

    His ex-girlfriend spit in his face and refused to sit near him in class. His so -called friends (the religious ones) refused to touch him or talk to him. They posted horrible comments on his facebook page until he finally had to take it down. His family disowned him.
    such nice people....*dripping sarcasm*


    1 members found this post helpful.

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