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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JanM View Post
    It used to be that Boy Scouts were a favored group, and received a lot of Military support. They had Scout Huts for meetings, and received support above and beyond other groups. Not any more. There have been repeated memos stating that scouts are not to be given preferential treatment, or support. After DADT was rescended they were then discriminating against Military who could not be leaders or participate. I personally dislike their emphasis (as TR pointed out) on Christian religion, and want everyone to believe the same way. It might not be the official policy, but it is the policy in local groups, whether it is formalized or not.

    Personally, I don't see why they ever worried about Gays or Lesbians, because the people are there to teach life skills, and not talk about their sex lives. I would object to a child hearing about anyone's sex life at a meeting like that, no matter what the orientation is. And I knew it would be bad, but even I was shocked when the sex offender files were released recently, and it showed how many cases were covered up, and how many offenders re-offended without anyone doing anything to stop them. One man actually abused many children in Oregon, served jail time, was supposed to be deported, moved to California, and injured more children, and left voluntarily for Canada, and I think he's is or was a volunteer with scouting there, until his record was publicized. The records released were only from 1959 to the present, and apparently did not include local, just national records. I wonder how many other cases have been ignored, enabled, or hushed up in the almost 100 years since scouting started in this country?
    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    It's the pedophiles who volunteer with scouting (or anything with children) for a ready made victim pool they should be worrying about, not gay men and boys.

    yes, they should not teach about sex life.

    But it is the cultural thing, ingrained in the US psyche it seems.

    And yes, the pedos are what is now biting them, big time.
    At least they have learned from that and adjusted policies accordingly. It will never keep predators out completely, but it does give everybody tools to deal with it.

    Howevr our minds are so deep in the gutter...like Beaves and Butthead 'He said Penis...hehehe....hehehe.....'

    we are a bunch of screwed up people...eventually we'll leave the cave.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldernewbie View Post
    Amazing how people who don't know a thing about scouting, apparently never went to a meeting, didn't let their boys in, are able to make such frankly idiotic statements.

    I hope you were being ironic and doing a bad job of it.

    (Proud merit badge counselor, mother of two Eagle scouts, assistant scoutmaster, mentor to 3 other Eagle scouts, and firm believer in boy led troops. Yep, troops that believe that boys do all the work and all the leadership.)

    BTW, I never met a woman scout leader who did the things you are talking about. Even the 70 year old grandmother who was an assistant scoutmaster with us knew better than that.
    I am very well acquainted with scouting.
    My husband grew up in scouting as well as his brothers and my own brothers. My husband also stayed in as a leader after he was too old to be in scouting. When our boys reached the age to be in Boy Scouts they were letting the mothers in. These mothers were going on the week long trips, cooking the meals and other things. In your area it may have been different, but not in ours.

    It is called Boy Scouts for a reason. Fathers and sons. Not mother's and sons. I am sorry that some boys don't have a father around or that if they do the man is just too busy to do scouting and mom steps in.

    As far as gay men in scouting? Lesbians in Girl Scouts? I don't think they should cave in to the whole gay agenda. I maybe the only one on this board who doesn't celebrate this whole lifestyle choice , but I don't care.

    To add fuel to the fire I also don't believe that women have any business being in combat.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #23
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    Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who are ignorant enough to think that all gay men are pedophiles who prey on little boys (actually, studies show most pedophiles are straight).

    Or, they think that a gay Scout would either A) Hit on his packmates or B) Somehow turn them gay. Neither is true. I have gay friends and they aren't really interested in straight guys because there isn't a point in being interested in someone who can never be interested back. And being around gay people isn't going to turn anyone else gay if they aren't already.

    But the abject ignorance of way too many people in this country gets int eh way of things like facts.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #24
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    @ caddyappy, how do you feel about black people being able to drink from the same water fountain as you? or use the same public restroom?


    28 members found this post helpful.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    I am very well acquainted with scouting.
    My husband grew up in scouting as well as his brothers and my own brothers. My husband also stayed in as a leader after he was too old to be in scouting. When our boys reached the age to be in Boy Scouts they were letting the mothers in. These mothers were going on the week long trips, cooking the meals and other things. In your area it may have been different, but not in ours.

    It is called Boy Scouts for a reason. Fathers and sons. Not mother's and sons. I am sorry that some boys don't have a father around or that if they do the man is just too busy to do scouting and mom steps in.

    As far as gay men in scouting? Lesbians in Girl Scouts? I don't think they should cave in to the whole gay agenda. I maybe the only one on this board who doesn't celebrate this whole lifestyle choice , but I don't care.

    To add fuel to the fire I also don't believe that women have any business being in combat.
    My husband was the scoutmaster. Boy Scouts was a great family activity for us. I'm sorry you're so rigid about it that you didn't have that opportunity.

    If the women in leadership in your troop were doing that, someone should have had a meeting with them to discuss the concept of boy led troops etc etc. We had to talk to a few of the moms to get them to back off but it was really no big deal. Some had to re-think their approach when the boys made the transition from cubs to boy scouts. Definitely could have been handled better and no reason for you to quit the whole scouting thing in a huff.

    My sons are two of the many, many, many young men who are both Eagle Scouts and gay. I can tell you with absolute certainty that there was no "agenda" involved. It is very unkind of you to assume that a pre teen or teenaged kid is so manipulative to think that they are going to join scouts to advance some sort of ulterior motive. Instead I imagine the majority of them are just like my sons - uncertain about their identity, but joined scouts to enjoy the outdoors, learn skills, make friendships, and spend quality time with their parents.

    I hope that if any of your children ever has a trait that somehow puts them outside the mainstream that folks are more compassionate towards them than you seem to be.


    29 members found this post helpful.

  6. #26
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    Looks like they're punting until May...

    http://news.yahoo.com/boy-scouts-del...153238089.html



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    The downhill slide started when they let mothers in. Then they started babying the boys where mommies would do the cooking and all that crap. They finished the slide by giving in to culture pressures. I am so glad that our boys didn't get into scouting now.
    Wow, that's definitely not true here! When I attend the various functions with my son, us parents are relegated to observers...which is where I'd rather be anyway. Our den leader is a "mommy" and she's tougher than the Pack Leader! It's too bad that your and your sons' experiences were different!

    I can understand the official stance on not allowing gay leaders and members - afterall this is a private group who can make whatever rules they want...and most of our troops are sponsored by churches. That said, I am a very active Christian, and am glad to see this change happening. Scouts has done wonderful things for my son, especially his confidence, and it's a shame that other boys wouldn't have the same exposure (no pun intended!) just because of their sexual orientation.
    “Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of Solitaire. It is a grand passion.” ~Emerson


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RainyDayRide View Post
    Looks like they're punting until May...

    http://news.yahoo.com/boy-scouts-del...153238089.html
    Like I said above, it was a half-a$$ed approach. Good they were thinking about it, but it wasn't going to work. I imagine the pressure on them from both sides is only going to intensify. Will be interesting to see how it works out.



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    As far as gay men in scouting? Lesbians in Girl Scouts? I don't think they should cave in to the whole gay agenda. I maybe the only one on this board who doesn't celebrate this whole lifestyle choice , but I don't care.
    You mean "the agenda to be treated the same?"

    You said boy scouts is about boys and fathers. Well what if the father happens to be gay? He shouldn't be allowed to do this fatherly thing with his kid?

    Are you worried they're going to start a fashion-designing badge requirement or something?
    "smile a lot can let us ride happy,it is good thing"

    My CANTER blog.


    25 members found this post helpful.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Eboshi View Post
    My nephew is about to make his Eagle, and his younger brother is a Scout too. I get to hear about a fair share of their activities. It would seem to me that discussions of sexuality in any context are not part of the Scouting curriculum, unless you're talking about boys on a camping trip whispering ribaldries in the dark for giggles. The people up-thread who said teaching about this is a matter for parents is right on. I imagine in most troops it's going to be a non-problem, but if the subject came up it might be handled like this:

    (1) Kid says, "That's so GAYYY!" being a brat. Leader says, "That's enough, Milton, that's not an acceptable use of that word!" No further explanation required.

    (2) Kid says, "Did you hear, Tom's Dad just married anyther guy!" Leader says pleasantly, "Yes, I saw it in the paper." Acts totally normal and makes no big deal out of it. This is key!

    (3) Kid says to bunkmate on a dark and stormy night, "You know, Jesse, sometimes I worry that I'm not interested in girls like you fellows. Do you think I could be, well, gay?" Bunkmate says, "I suppose by the time we're out of high school, you'll know, right?"
    No further action required.

    (4) Kid confides in Scoutmaster that he thinks he IS gay but can't tell his parents and is just sick about it; doesn't know what to do.
    Scoutmaster: "I think your parents will still love you as their son, but it might be a good idea to talk to your school guidance counselor about your feelings and what if anything to do about them." Leader is positive and supportive but keeps professional distance.

    I don't see any of this as a terribly earth-shattering and difficult thing. It's all just sensible, well-adjusted adults assisting in the process of forming positive values as youth grow up. Really a matter of basic common sense, and NO ONE LOSES.

    Does the old-fashioned climate of "faith-based" fear, guilt, shame, ostracism and recrimination help anyone WIN? I think not!
    I agree with you.

    Except that I think 3 and 4 well....

    Most parents will eventually come to terms with a gay kid...some sadly don't
    (and that is my point, right, they choose to live a life like this when what comes natural is scrutenized... and all that comes with it...but that's for another time)


    However, there are the Cubs and the scouts.
    The cubs, age 6 to 10, the parents are expected to participate. And sadly enough, that means a lot of mothers. But it's a blast when the leadership is right.

    Scouts, they have to cut the umbilical cord.
    However, they still need adult leaders, several....and you have to pick from what is there.

    and then there are the people who make things happen, the unseen work: The comity. So the leaders can concentrate on the boys.

    That includes getting all the parents on the same page (you know, herding cats) getting money, supplies, etc
    But in the end, you can't make the boys do stuff they don't want to.
    You can nudge....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    It is called Boy Scouts for a reason. Fathers and sons. Not mother's and sons. I am sorry that some boys don't have a father around or that if they do the man is just too busy to do scouting and mom steps in.
    Let me get this straight: you're saying that if a boy can't have his father involved in his life and scouts, then he has no business being in Scouts? Seriously?! My son's father, my good-for-nothing-completely-self-absorbed-ex, has no time for anyone other than himself, and is NOT the example of a real man that I want my son around. That said, I am a woman and can only do so much so I thought, why not Scouts? My son will be exposed to good, upstanding men and boys, will learn lots of skills that will help him out all through his life, and have fun in the process. But, according to you....I should remove him, right?
    “Riding a horse is not a gentle hobby, to be picked up and laid down like a game of Solitaire. It is a grand passion.” ~Emerson


    12 members found this post helpful.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by caffeinated View Post
    You mean "the agenda to be treated the same?"
    caffeinated, I still love you. Not that I have any sort of "agenda" mind you.
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotteddrafter View Post
    Let me get this straight: you're saying that if a boy can't have his father involved in his life and scouts, then he has no business being in Scouts? Seriously?! My son's father, my good-for-nothing-completely-self-absorbed-ex, has no time for anyone other than himself, and is NOT the example of a real man that I want my son around. That said, I am a woman and can only do so much so I thought, why not Scouts? My son will be exposed to good, upstanding men and boys, will learn lots of skills that will help him out all through his life, and have fun in the process. But, according to you....I should remove him, right?
    No according to her YOU should remove YOU. No girlz allowed!


    7 members found this post helpful.

  14. #34
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    I think private clubs should have the ability to determine their own membership rules. I might not agree with what their requirements are, but as long as they are not funded by the govt/taxpayers then they should be allowed to have whatever requirements they want. You could have a no handicapped, no white, no female,no Christians, or no "whatever" club, and it should be allowed. But the key is that they are not given a dime of money by the govt.

    If people disagree with a club's requirements, then they show their disapproval by not supporting them. If someone wants to start a club that allows everyone, that would be a good alternative.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    It's the pedophiles who volunteer with scouting (or anything with children) for a ready made victim pool they should be worrying about, not gay men and boys.
    Exactly! You're never going to be able to prevent predation from guys who are bent this way. If it wasn't the BS, they'd seek out some other venue (like becoming a priest!) to go after what they wanted. As far as letting gays in the BS, I think they've been there all along. But maybe having role models that don't have to hide their sexual orientation, be they intelligent, compassionate, well liked, natural leaders, have an accomplished practical skill set (camping/woodlore/mechanics) or all of the above, might put some severe bias' and prejudices to bed. Might not be such a horrible thing to realize you're gay, because Mr. So and so is too, and he's a decent person that's got his act together.
    This it be all wot we want in life, wenn peoples dey loff us. ~ Willem


    7 members found this post helpful.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I think private clubs should have the ability to determine their own membership rules. I might not agree with what their requirements are, but as long as they are not funded by the govt/taxpayers then they should be allowed to have whatever requirements they want. You could have a no handicapped, no white, no female,no Christians, or no "whatever" club, and it should be allowed. But the key is that they are not given a dime of money by the govt.

    If people disagree with a club's requirements, then they show their disapproval by not supporting them. If someone wants to start a club that allows everyone, that would be a good alternative.
    true.
    but they do garner public support through reputation, I am sure they receive benefits from their status.
    You can discriminate all you want, but never on the public's dime.


    However, when something is broken you can work on it to fix it before you give up and throw it out.
    The program is really awesome, and I think more relevant for boys than it was 100 years ago!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    As far as gay men in scouting? Lesbians in Girl Scouts? I don't think they should cave in to the whole gay agenda. I maybe the only one on this board who doesn't celebrate this whole lifestyle choice , but I don't care.

    To add fuel to the fire I also don't believe that women have any business being in combat.
    News flash, the Girl Scouts don't discriminate.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    6 members found this post helpful.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnThinIce View Post
    But maybe having role models that don't have to hide their sexual orientation, be they intelligent, compassionate, well liked, natural leaders, have an accomplished practical skill set (camping/woodlore/mechanics) or all of the above, might put some severe bias' and prejudices to bed. Might not be such a horrible thing to realize you're gay, because Mr. So and so is too, and he's a decent person that's got his act together.
    I think this is what people are really worried about when they talk about the infamous "gay agenda" .. the horrible possibility that maybe kids will be "indoctrinated" with the idea that there's nothing wrong with being gay.


    13 members found this post helpful.

  19. #39
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    I love these threads -- they always make it very clear who to put on my ignore list.

    What are they so afraid of? Sexual orientation spreads like cooties? Ummm, sorry, homosexuality is present in multiple wildlife species as well as humans, it's not a disease or a fad. These guys think that they are SO irresistible that every gay man/boy will hit on them or molest them? *snork*

    Ah, how society has "gone downhill" since they let us women get to thinkin' and gettin' edumacated and other atrocities. Pretty soon, someone will ask for something ridiculous like "everyone is created equally" or some crap like that. (do I need to point out the sarcasm?)


    15 members found this post helpful.

  20. #40
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    They are a 'private club', and they are allowed to discriminate for many reasons, but that is also the reason they are not allowed to use facilities on Military posts too.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White


    1 members found this post helpful.

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