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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    My advice to MF and anyone else, just ignore from now on anything relating to the above.
    Heh, haven't answered her for days, and never will again
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    3 members found this post helpful.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    Really, SV, I have my prediction above. Sit back and watch, I'll be right.

    Folks, I don't know if it's important or not whether SV believes any of this or not. I suspect you could put live info in front of him/her and you'd still get the 'everything is fine' routine. My advice to MF and anyone else, just ignore from now on anything relating to the above. Just because someone posts whatever, doesn't mean you have to jump back at them, especially given the history already on this board.
    Right, don't fall for the baiting.

    On the one post about being a carriage driver and those wonderful PETA folks not believing that the carriage horses are fine, well, we have a similar situation with cattle.
    All beef cattle are raised in pastures, weaned and pastured some more.
    When they have grown all they can grow on pasture, they are mature enough to become cows and bulls and if not wanted for that, slaughtered as grass fed, or taken to a feedlot to be "finished" on grain rations for a few more weeks of their lives.

    Well, everyone and their dog just knows, the media and hatchet job type documentaries have told them, those weeks the cattle spend in the feedlots they are being abused.

    On the contrary, those cattle have hit the cattle lottery, for cattle.
    The cattle in pens have very carefully studied living conditions so they are the happiest they can be, because that helps them gain in the most efficient manner for those weeks and that is what will pay the bills.

    Many universities have tons of studies on how to build the best pens, mounds in the pens, the right type of ground, the best bunks to put the feed in them, the finest rations nutritionist can figure, veterinarians coming by regularly, best waterers, how many square feet per animals and no more or less than that, how many head per pen and which kind, so they are with compatible friends, so they are happy.
    Cattle feedlots are the Ritz of the cattle world.

    Now, to us humans, we would go nuts living there, smelly and all day nothing but eating and drinking and sleeping the hours away, but people, those are CATTLE, that live for laying around chewing their cud, all day long, that is the best life possible, for those cattle, at that stage of their lives.
    To them, it is the equivalent of spending a long vacation in one of the plushest spas, room and board and congenial friends to pass the time with, what a pleasure.

    Go explain that to the likes of the PETA people out there, that don't have the foggiest idea of what cattle are or what makes them happy, but follow animal rights extremist driven drivel about how horrible it is to have those cattle there for the last weeks of their lives.

    Those animal rights fanatics and their stories and documentaries are so far out there, in their quest to eliminate all uses of animals, that to those of us that know what is right are non-plussed with the idiocy of it all.

    Until we wake up and realize how they are attacking from all sides, all our uses of animals, pushing one against another, dividing and conquering, we will keep losing ground to them.

    We need to raise our eyes and look around, get our noses out of our little world and see what else is happening out there.
    Let them keep dividing us and so we will fall and lose all our rights to our domestic animals, starting with the carriage horses and feedlot cattle and show dogs and rodeos and racing and eventing and all other that animal rights extremists can bring others to fight against.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  3. #343
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    "baiting" that is done by those telling people what the future will bring. Not happening just talking and baiting from those that say the "sky is falling"...



  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    Heh, haven't answered her for days, and never will again
    Yeah, I'm done too. Sort of like whazhisname in PA and the Peps. You're wasting your time dealing with it.

    As for the cattle, have you ever checked out how dairy cows live?? Wow, they have the good life!! There are a few bad apples who handle them but the dairies I've been in (hauling feed to them), they are clean and everything is centered on the the happy cow. They even have self milking machines. The cow feels her bag getting full, sort of an equivalent of needing to tinkle, she can go into a chute, the machine is triggered somehow, comes around, latches on and milks the cow, lets go and the cow walks on out. Pretty nifty stuff!
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    Yeah, I'm done too. Sort of like whazhisname in PA and the Peps. You're wasting your time dealing with it.

    As for the cattle, have you ever checked out how dairy cows live?? Wow, they have the good life!! There are a few bad apples who handle them but the dairies I've been in (hauling feed to them), they are clean and everything is centered on the the happy cow. They even have self milking machines. The cow feels her bag getting full, sort of an equivalent of needing to tinkle, she can go into a chute, the machine is triggered somehow, comes around, latches on and milks the cow, lets go and the cow walks on out. Pretty nifty stuff!
    Yes, we have some of those around here.
    My neighbor hauls cattle and tells me the dairymen are the hardest to please, will come inspect his truck with white gloves, bed them down with shavings before they bring the calves up to be transported to other farms.
    Those dairymen are very grumpy and particular, which my neighbor agrees with also.
    Too bad those every day standard care stories don't make the stories in the news, only the rare abuse case does.

    It is unbelievable that the NY carriage horses, some of the most open to scrutiny and regulated of them, happen to be the ones animal rights extremists want to shut down.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #346
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    Facts matter, I do not see anything except a bill for NY on this thread...



  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Facts matter, I do not see anything except a bill for NY on this thread...
    Then why do you keep on insisting that MF is advertising if "facts matter"?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Nothing like free advertising on a public BB....
    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Facts matter, I do not see anything except a bill for NY on this thread...
    So which is it ?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    It is unbelievable that the NY carriage horses, some of the most open to scrutiny and regulated of them, happen to be the ones animal rights extremists want to shut down.
    If you think through the implications of the RARAs success in this case, it makes perfect sense from their POV.

    It makes going after less heavily regulated endeavors all the easier.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    If you think through the implications of the RARAs success in this case, it makes perfect sense from their POV.

    It makes going after less heavily regulated endeavors all the easier.
    I think that part of the reason animal rights extremist groups target those horses is because there are "other" very powerful and rich interest behind getting those horses out of there.
    The value of that real estate the horses use, for other purposes, is way too much not to try to run them off.

    My guess is, that is why this is a ready made chance for the always opportunistic animal rights groups to make hay there while the sun is shining.
    Just think of the free publicity alone and how that helps fill their already overflowing coffers some more.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think that part of the reason animal rights extremist groups target those horses is because there are "other" very powerful and rich interest behind getting those horses out of there.
    The value of that real estate the horses use, for other purposes, is way too much not to try to run them off.

    My guess is, that is why this is a ready made chance for the always opportunistic animal rights groups to make hay there while the sun is shining.
    Just think of the free publicity alone and how that helps fill their already overflowing coffers some more.
    Hit it right ouut of the ball park with this on Bluey.

    Those are the very reasons they are targeted. High publicity, multiple backers with ulterior motives and a few with a lot of money . Its to tasty for the antis to not participate. Besides nothing embodies to coin their verbiage of "slaves" better then a harness right ? Their little twisted mines cavort around thinking bondage , servitude , abuse. A few photos of a harnessed horse taking a nap and poof "poor sad pony slave shackled and forced to work"
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  12. #352
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    You know Bluey, you nailed it. Like I said before, I'm not particularly fond of horses on busy streets and I would much rather see them in the park, but there's more to it than meets the eye. It's about money and power in this instance, not the horses.

    The behind the scenes people want the stable property. That's what this is all about.

    You really should focus on that and the unlawful seizure of horses. Get some of your libertarian friends to help....
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #353
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    Right Laura and the people behind the scenes are more then happy to let the out spoken animal activists parade around on the front line soaking bullets and screaming nonsensical miss-truths about abuse.

    That way the public gets pulled in believing its a horse welfare issue (when there is none) and nobody notices the back room deals. Meanwhile its a boon to the activists if they get a win here ... forward momentum and all.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by bastnpny5 View Post
    I am a horse drawn carriage driver in Texas. I have been doing this for 18 years and have owned my own horse and carriage for 16 years. To me, this is such a rewarding job. As an equestrian, I enjoy the bond between myself and any horse I have driven. They all have different personalities and to get to know each one has been an asset in my life. But, having the same horse for 16 years and knowing the type of partnership we have, is the most rewarding thing I have ever done with horses in my lifetime. I especially enjoy sharing my horse with all the "city" folk who never get a chance to get near a horse, much less touch one. How many kids see horses on the TV or in books, but never get to be near one? Maybe one of those kids that touches my horse will grow up to be a horseperson of some kind. They don't have to be carriage drivers. Without the kids of today, the horse has no future.

    Because I work with horses, I am able to afford them. I don't get rich from driving a carriage, as I put most of what I make back into them, but it does allow me the chance to own and enjoy them. It also allows me to take care of them the best way I know how. One of the things I find pride in is for people to tell me how healthy my horse looks. My horse is now 21 years old. He only works 2 or 3 days a week and he enjoys it. When I go out to get him for work, he meets me where his halter hangs. When I ask him to get in the trailer, I put the lead rope over his back and he jumps in the trailer on his own. When I go to harness him and put the collar over his head, he pushes to help me. When I go to put the bridle on, he is mouthing to get the bit. My horse loves to work and he loves the attention that he gets.

    Another thing I love is the happiness that we bring when we do a wedding proposal, a wedding or just a ride through the city. When we are moving, people are ALWAYS taking our photo.

    What frustrates me, is the anti-carriage/horse people. You have people that know absolutely NOTHING about horses trying to dictate what is best for them. Until I actually owned a horse, I thought I knew about them but soon realized I had no clue. Luckily, I had some people who turned out to be very good friends guiding me along and were patient with me when I was asking a lot of dumb questions. I was willing to learn and be educated by going to all sorts of clinics and events.

    I also worked for one of the premier Friesian dressage/competition driving farms in the USA for years. That farm is no longer there, but I can't tell you how much I learned from working there and the awesome horse people I got to meet.

    I am not saying, I know it all. There is so much to learn where horses are concerned. That is one thing I love about horses, you learn something new every day.

    The anti-carriage people think that horses are like dogs. People, these are two different species! They are nothing alike. One of the posts on one of their boards cracked me up when they wanted people to wear straw hats to give to the horses to eat. Or to take a frisbee and water to give them a drink. Just these two things right there prove that they have no clue what they are talking about.

    I have dealt with PETA in cities I have worked. When you try to educate them about the horses they know nothing about or invite them to the barn to actually see how the horses live, they never come to see how they actually live, they only want to spout their speculation and lies of how they "think" they live.

    I don't like the show world in some breeds. Some of those horses are either in stalls or in the ring. They never get turned out, even though there is space, for fear the horse will get hurt. I also don't like barrel racing or a lot of western stuff. Those long shank bits in the wrong hands make me crazy. Do I protest against this? No, and you know why? A saying we have in Texas is that it is NUNYA. None of ya business. It is not my horse and the owners can do as they please. I don't think I would treat a horse this way with the type of shoeing, etc., but it is none of my business as I choose not to be involved in that discipline.

    i have been on the anti-carriage pages, trying to educate them about horses in general only to have had my posts removed and me banned. They don't want to know the truth. They don't want to know that these horses get the best possible hay and feed. They don't want to know that I spend about $200 every six weeks getting my horse shod. I don't spend $200 a year on shoes for myself. In fact, I spend a lot more on my horses than I do on myself. I have gone without when things got tough so that my horses did not suffer. That is what we do.

    I also realize that if the carriage business ever gets banned in NYC, it is just a matter of time before it will sweep through the rest of the USA. The carriage business in NYC has been a business for over a hundred years. They are the most regulated horses in the country. And, the reason the anti-carriage people have to make up lies is because they can not catch the drivers or owners in abuse because what they don't understand is that abuse probably does not exist. These horses are our "bread and butter" so why would we abuse them? It makes no sense.

    Like I said, just because you think something is cruel doesn't mean that it is. Kind of like training of horses. There are a thousand ways to get the same result. Every horse and every person is different. You have to do what is best for you and your horse. And, just because someone does something that you don't approve of, or do it a way that you would not, does not make it wrong. It just makes it different.

    I fully appreciate every email that has been sent from this board about the NY regulations. If someone tries to take my horse, it will be over my dead body! I have told this organization that I will do whatever I can to help them even though I am in Texas and in turn, Eva and several people there have helped me when I needed them.

    Sorry to ramble so long, but it took a long time to read 17 pages of this BS when all was asked was help to stop a stupid regulation.

    And, yes, I guess you could call me a "minion". If you knew me, you would know that I am really nobody's minion unless I want to be.
    Great post. So great it bears repeating. And welcome to COTH. We're not nice people though, as you can see.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns



    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #355
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    Thank you MandyVA but I am a tough old broad and can handle most stuff. I have been on the internet long enough to know not to encourage trolls and stalkers. Just state the facts.

    For years I was moderator on the horse.com forums. So, this is nothing to me.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Like I said before, I'm not particularly fond of horses on busy streets and I would much rather see them in the park
    As an aside, Laura, I just want to again point out that the Park roads allow motorized traffic; as a matter of fact, the cabs can go faster in the Park, there are intersections and stop lights, and the roads are twisty and turny. We also share the Park roadways with pedicabs, joggers, skaters, bicyclists, and pedestrians. The only difference from 59th Street is there is no commercial traffic. The horses are acclimated to all situations, city and Park, it works no hardship on them, and our safety record is nothing short of amazing. Just an FYI.
    Last edited by michaleenflynn; Feb. 11, 2013 at 03:40 PM.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  17. #357
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    For once I have to agree with Laura. In the past when land grab has been suggested she has screamed conspiracy. This time the player is still hiding but the fact he is a developer AND has stated he would like to develope THAT property and the fact he has filed complaints against the horses (thru others) it does go to show that there is an agenda that does not require a tin foil hat to see it.


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  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    For once I have to agree with Laura. In the past when land grab has been suggested she has screamed conspiracy. This time the player is still hiding but the fact he is a developer AND has stated he would like to develope THAT property and the fact he has filed complaints against the horses (thru others) it does go to show that there is an agenda that does not require a tin foil hat to see it.
    Don't forget and no offense meant but hes an EVENTER. With all the recent injuries , deaths and complications of that sport its rich that he would contest carriage horses as abused or in danger. I do believe the properties he envisions creating where the stables stand are entirely made of glass.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Don't forget and no offense meant but hes an EVENTER. With all the recent injuries , deaths and complications of that sport its rich that he would contest carriage horses as abused or in danger. I do believe the properties he envisions creating where the stables stand are entirely made of glass.
    Are you serious? You defend carriage horses by slamming eventing? You people really need to get your act together.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Are you serious? You defend carriage horses by slamming eventing? You people really need to get your act together.
    Oh for gods sake Laura read the post. "and no offense meant"

    I'm not slamming eventing I'm pointing out how absurd it is that he is actively involved in a equine sport that has its own fair share of danger involved yet is using the danger element as part of his position against carriage horses.

    I have ZERO issue with eventing period. Just pointing out the ironic. "I do believe the properties he envisions creating where the stables stand are entirely made of glass."
    Last edited by Lynnwood; Feb. 11, 2013 at 03:28 PM.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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