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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I don't think you get this yet, but lets try once more.

    The information presented here affects all of those of us that don't follow animal rights groups like HSUS and PETA as they are attacking all we do with our animals on many fronts, trying as hard as they can to eventually eliminate all uses of all animals:
    "One generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me" , as the HSUS president used to say, until it became a bit less than PC to show his hand, applies to what they do, think about that.

    To attack the carriage horses is not because animal rights people care either way for the horses, but because they want all uses eliminated.
    That means all of our uses also, eventually.

    Hope that helped explain this better for you.
    Bluey, you and I can disagree and do so without names and reporting to mods. I don't believe HSUS is seeking to take away domestic animals, I got our last dog from their local facility. It is a red herring issue that I do not see nor believe. HSUS has been around a long time and their issues are not to take away my animals. The carriage horse industry has used that red herring tactic to garner support for their industry.

    Thanks Bluey, alas we disagree but thanks for your explanation.



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Bluey, you and I can disagree and do so without names and reporting to mods. I don't believe HSUS is seeking to take away domestic animals, I got our last dog from their local facility. It is a red herring issue that I do not see nor believe. HSUS has been around a long time and their issues are not to take away my animals. The carriage horse industry has used that red herring tactic to garner support for their industry.

    Thanks Bluey, alas we disagree but thanks for your explanation.
    Seriously, give it a rest.
    I couldn't care less what your stance on anything is, but it is really well past humerus the way you always pop up in Michaelynn's threads...not contributing anything to the topic but - yeah, you do - attack her.

    Don't play the victim. Because you are not.

    You got your attention for the night, why don't you call it a day?

    Just to add:
    http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h9...s/novirtue.png
    Last edited by Alagirl; Feb. 6, 2013 at 07:56 PM. Reason: link added.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Bluey, you and I can disagree and do so without names and reporting to mods. I don't believe HSUS is seeking to take away domestic animals, I got our last dog from their local facility. It is a red herring issue that I do not see nor believe. HSUS has been around a long time and their issues are not to take away my animals. The carriage horse industry has used that red herring tactic to garner support for their industry.

    Thanks Bluey, alas we disagree but thanks for your explanation.
    Really? The HSUS doesn't has any local shelters, do check with whoever you got your dog and they may give you an earful about THAT!

    I have worked with our local shelter for years and we are not very fond of the HSUS taking in all those millions and when we go ask for donations, people tell us they already donated, responding to the HSUS letter asking for money, that sounded like it came from us!

    Hard to explain to the public that no, the HSUS is not an animal shelter of any kind, they are just a de facto lobbying arm of animal rights, those mailings are a sham.
    And yes, animal rights is all about taking away everyone's animals, learn more about it.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  4. #84
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    SV how could you have gotten your dog from the HSUS's local facility when they do not run nor are they directly affiliated with local Humane Societies?

    Its an honest question not a dig... which facility do they affiliate with ?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Bluey, you and I can disagree and do so without names and reporting to mods. I don't believe HSUS is seeking to take away domestic animals, I got our last dog from their local facility. It is a red herring issue that I do not see nor believe. HSUS has been around a long time and their issues are not to take away my animals. The carriage horse industry has used that red herring tactic to garner support for their industry.

    Thanks Bluey, alas we disagree but thanks for your explanation.
    Also SV if nobody is out to take anyones animals away can you please explain to me and the masses why the bills to Ban/Abolish the NYC carriage trade also come with legislation remanding the horses into homes other then their current owners ?

    Intro Bill 670 is nothing more then a clever disguised aid to force carriage horses out of the city. Something that you have publicly lobbied for.

    "1. The owner shall sell or donate the horse to a private individual who signs an assurance that the horse
    will not be sold and shall be kept solely as a companion animal and not employed in another horse-drawn
    carriage business or as a work horse and will be cared for humanely for the remainder of the horse's natural life;
    or
    2. The owner shall sell or donate the horse to a duly incorporated animal sanctuary or duly incorporated
    animal protection organization whose president or executive director signs an assurance that the horse will not
    be sold and shall be kept solely as a companion animal and not employed in another horse-drawn carriage
    business and will be cared for humanely for the remainder of the horse's natural life."


    Note that NYC Administrative Code Title 17 Chapter 3 Subchapter 3 defines "work" as being presented for riding or driving, being harnessed for driving or saddled for riding, or being ridden or driven.

    How is that piece of legislation NOT taking away privatized animals? Shouldn't it be up to the owners what happens to their horses should there ever come a day when the industry closes ?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    I don't see any other COTH members promoting their businesses and asking for COTH members to write to politicians to support their businesses
    Do you read other posts on COTH? There are other people who post on COTH that make current legisltation known, often voicing their opinions on the legislation. Is it to support their business? Maybe not as directly as this particular instance but transportation bills, horse identifcation laws, land use laws, agriculture use laws... yes that is affecting people's BUSINESS. Many people who post here on COTH use horses as their BUSINESS.

    She is not promoting her business. Nowhere in that post did she offer a carriage ride, give a link to coupons for a ride, post her phone number, carriage number, etc. It's not like NYC is a secret place and we couldn't find the carriages if we wanted to support the business. Heck, everyone with a business on COTH pretty much has a sig line with their business info, so in effect everyone is promoting their business with every single post they make. I like it. It's called networking.

    I still don't understand why someone can't post the information and just get remarks like, "Thanks for posting the info." geez. What is so hard about it?


    7 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
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    http://www.humanesociety.org/animal_..._shelters.html

    ^ HSUS may shuffle some money to your local shelter or support in some way, but there is no "local HSUS shelter".


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldpony66 View Post
    http://www.humanesociety.org/animal_..._shelters.html

    ^ HSUS may shuffle some money to your local shelter or support in some way, but there is no "local HSUS shelter".
    Not HSUS but an interesting read on the reluctance of NJSPCA to create local chapters.

    http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...l#incart_river


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
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    Our local HS is in no way connected with HSUS. I don't know why the local one even use the name HS. The head mucky-muck wrote a piece for my local paper explaining how they don't get one thin dime from HSUS and are basically on their own when it comes to funding.
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    Our local HS is in no way connected with HSUS. I don't know why the local one even use the name HS. The head mucky-muck wrote a piece for my local paper explaining how they don't get one thin dime from HSUS and are basically on their own when it comes to funding.
    I think their HS precedes the other HS...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #91
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    Our local Humane Society is funded but not entirely by HSUS. I do support HSUS as I have said and I also support the local rescue. HSUS is not attempting to take away any animals, as I have previously stated.

    The carriage industry, I am not a proponent and if carriage horses left NYC I don't really care. I would never have a horse in that urban of an environment, I would never have children there either.

    Oldpony66-You may not see someone who works for NYC Carriage Industry (she does not own carriages and horses)as promoting her business but I do and asking people to write to politicians and business owners on her businesses behalf is clearly promoting her business, she does not sell clothes, her job is to promote the carriage industry and get people to advocate for the carriage industry. Most people on here do not promote their business and no I have not read posts asking people to write politicians on their businesses behalf.

    You all can disparage HSUS, and heaven help you if someone disagrees.



  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    And screaming that PETA is going to come take my pleasure horse does not sway my opinion.
    Here is a quote from Elizabeth Forel herself:
    NYC will be the domino for the beginning of the end of horse abusiveindustries all over the world."

    You want more?

    “One generation and out. We have no problem with theextinction of domestic animals.” ---Wayne Pacelle, President of HSUS quoted in Animal People,May, 1993

    “My goal is theabolition of all animal agriculture."
    ---JP Goodwin, employed at theHumane Society of the US, formerly at Coalition to Abolish the Fur Trade, asquoted on AR-Views, an animal rights Internet discussion group in 1996.

    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
    Bernard M. Baruch


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
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    You know what? Stolen Virtue has not denied being Elizabeth Forel and has been asked several times in this thread if she is EF. She has not denied it.
    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
    Bernard M. Baruch


    3 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amwrider View Post
    “One generation and out. We have no problem with theextinction of domestic animals.” ---Wayne Pacelle, President of HSUS quoted in Animal People,May, 1993

    “.

    [/COLOR]
    Do you honestly not know the context in which Pacelle made that portion quoted? It was in regards to someone questioning whether breeding Heirloom cattle was necessary.
    But the "anti HSUS side/OMG THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR PETS" side, insists on quoting it out of context.



  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Our local Humane Society is funded but not entirely by HSUS. I do support HSUS as I have said and I also support the local rescue. HSUS is not attempting to take away any animals, as I have previously stated.

    The carriage industry, I am not a proponent and if carriage horses left NYC I don't really care. I would never have a horse in that urban of an environment, I would never have children there either.

    Oldpony66-You may not see someone who works for NYC Carriage Industry (she does not own carriages and horses)as promoting her business but I do and asking people to write to politicians and business owners on her businesses behalf is clearly promoting her business, she does not sell clothes, her job is to promote the carriage industry and get people to advocate for the carriage industry. Most people on here do not promote their business and no I have not read posts asking people to write politicians on their businesses behalf.

    You all can disparage HSUS, and heaven help you if someone disagrees.
    No, she is not asking people to promote her business.
    She is asking horse people to help prevent this asinine legislation.


    Riddle me this:
    What makes you think you are that special little snowflake that you won't have to worry about anybody finding fault with your horse keeping skills?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #96
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    I have asked twice and no answer. I figure that kind of answered itself...
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  17. #97
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    Thinking that SV is Elizabeth F. is a pretty far stretch. I've "hung out" with SV on other COTH threads, such as the Adult Rider's Support Group, and I'd bet money she's NOT Elizabeth. And oddly, enough, I've had some Facebook exchanges with Elizabeth, and have not been banned from her "No Walk in the Park" page. People are entitled to their opinions. Over the years, I've learned a lot from this BB. I've had my opinions changed, my attitude and actions questioned, and been wacked upside the head a few times.

    Every once in a while, I play the "if I won the lottery" game in my head, and one of the things I'd do is take SV and a few other anti-carriage people to NYC and BlueStar for a weekend. I'm 90% convinced they'd return home as carriage supporters.
    It's 2014. Do you know where your old horse is?


    4 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
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    SV, are you Forel??

    ETA: I've 'talked' on a couple of 'their' FB pages also. I haven't been banned, or rather, wasn't banned. My posts were deleted when I attempted to clarify why a carriage horse had foam at his bit, plus tried to clarify why horses cock up a hind leg when resting. They don't want to know why a horse does something natural and normal. Some cat lady in MI went all hysterical over the foam mouthed horse, now HER posts were allowed to stand, but, the horsewoman (me and a couple others) who tried to educate (nicely I might add, just like we'd talk to a newbie horse owner), my posts were deleted.
    Last edited by goneriding24; Feb. 6, 2013 at 09:56 PM. Reason: Didn't want to make another post....
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Do you honestly not know the context in which Pacelle made that portion quoted? It was in regards to someone questioning whether breeding Heirloom cattle was necessary.
    But the "anti HSUS side/OMG THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR PETS" side, insists on quoting it out of context.
    I explained before that is not so.
    Pacelle said that several times, it was his go to phrase, that one time in that one interview is the time he was quoted directly, but it was common for him to express that sentiment and similar ones.

    The past few years, with the internet educating people about who the HSUS really is, they are backpedalling and trying to put a different face, it is not PC to say directly we want all animal use abolish, so they are going at it thru the back door, not so much up front, in your face as they used to.

    Sorry, you can defend them all you want, but you can't change who they are.

    And no, to the poster that said their local shelter where she got her dog is supported by the HSUS, sorry, that doesn't fly either, they just don't, ask the ones running it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Do you honestly not know the context in which Pacelle made that portion quoted? It was in regards to someone questioning whether breeding Heirloom cattle was necessary.
    But the "anti HSUS side/OMG THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE AWAY OUR PETS" side, insists on quoting it out of context.
    I am aware of the context of the quote, and I repeat "the extinction of domestic animals" he does not specify cattle, or any specific breeds of cattle, he is referring to ALL domestic animals. Please read the quote by his cohort JP Goodwin that I posted.
    Every man has a right to his opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.
    Bernard M. Baruch


    2 members found this post helpful.

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