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  1. #1
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    Default Bill to ban NYC carriages in state committee - NEED YOUR HELP/UPDATE/Post#218

    The following was posted by Elizabeth Forel, one of the main anti-carriage agitators here in NYC. (FYI: Forel is operating at a state level, not city, and has no connection to Steve Nislick and NYCLASS, who are trying to get us banned through local legislation and then replace us with electric cars)

    The legislation that she has crafted with State Senator Tony Avella is now in the Cities Committee, and we need HORSEMEN to weigh in and let the legislators know that they SUPPORT the NYC carriage industry, and are AGAINST this bill, which not only shuts down a thriving, iconic business, but effectively SEIZES our horses, setting a dangerous precedent for horse owners everywhere.

    I am imploring every COTHer who believes in us and our fight to take time out of his/her day and use the info below to contact the people who hold our fate in their hands.

    I have posted about the carriage issue ad nauseum in this forum, so I will not hold forth again here on details and history; for those of you who are unfamiliar and are interested in background, I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

    COTHers, PLEASE REMEMBER: If you decide to support us with emails and phone calls, you are AGAINST S-667 in the Senate and A-997 in the Assembly, which would ban NYC carriages.

    Thank you.

    PS - The New York State Horse Council is a firm supporter of the NYC carriage industry, and will be going to bat for us, too



    From Forel:

    Dear friends of NYC carriage horses and supporters of the bill to ban this inhumane and unsafe trade:

    A while ago, you signed our petition on Change.org in support of the New York State bill to ban horse-drawn carriages in New York City. Your support has brought the petition numbers to more than 126,000 signatures – an amazing feat. We so appreciate it.

    The bill has a new number - S-667 in the Senate and A-997 in the Assembly and is currently in the Cities Committee in each house.

    Once more we call upon you for your help.

    1. Please take a few minutes to help the horses and move this bill along. We have tried to make it as easy as possible for you and have decided that making phone calls is very effective. If you wish to send e-mails, the list is below.

    The telephone list is divided into Senate and Assembly – please make as many phone calls as you can. This is what you should say:

    - start out by providing your name, city, state and phone number. Let them know if you are a constituent -- or if you live out of state, which is OK. Then say this:
    “I am calling to ask you to support S-667- (or A997 depending on whether you are talking to the Senate or Assembly) , the bill that would prohibit horse-drawn carriages in New York City. I would like to know if you would add your name as a co-sponsor of this bill. I will call back in a few days if I do not hear from you."

    If they ask for any information and they generally do not - and if you are unable to provide it – tell them you will get back to them and then contact us – coalition@banhdc.org.

    CITIES COMMITTEE – SENATE:
    Andrew Lanza – chairman (NYC) – (518) 455-3215

    John A. DeFrancisco – (Syracuse) (315) 428-7632

    Mark Grisanti – (Buffalo) (716) 854-8705

    Joseph E. Robach – (Rochester) (585) 225-3650

    CITIES COMMITTEE – ASSEMBLY
    Carl Heastie - chairman – (NYC) (718) 654-6539

    Edward Braunstein (NYC) (718) 357-3588

    John Ceretto (Niagara Falls) (716) 282-6062

    Jane Corwin (Clarence) (716) 839-4691

    Marcos Crespo (NYC) (718) 893-0202

    Rafael L. Espinal, Jr. (NYC) (718) 235-5627

    Michael Kearns (Buffalo) (716) 826-0152

    Micah Kellner – (NYC) (212) 860-4906

    Shelley Mayer (Yonkers) (914) 779-8805

    James Tedisco (Schenectady) (518) 370-2812

    David Weprin (NYC) (718) 454-3027

    2. E-mail addresses are deemed to be not as effective because they can be easily deleted. However, if you do not have the time to make phone calls and want to take the chance and write an e-mail - these are the groupings:

    SENATE
    lanza@senate.state.ny.us; jdefranc@nysenate.gov; grisanti@nysenate.gov; robach@nysenate.gov

    ASSEMBLY
    kellnerm@assembly.state.ny.us; MayerS@assembly.state.ny.us; HeastieC@assembly.state.ny.us; braunsteine@assembly.state.ny.us; cerettoj@assembly.state.ny.us; kearnsm@assembly.state.ny.us; weprind@assembly.state.ny.us; espinalr@assembly.state.ny.us; corwinj@assembly.state.ny.us; crespom@assembly.state.ny.us; tediscoj@assembly.state.ny.us
    Last edited by michaleenflynn; Feb. 8, 2013 at 10:15 PM. Reason: update
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    1 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Will send my comments... Thank you for the heads up!
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBarnRules View Post
    Will send my comments... Thank you for the heads up!
    Thank you, BR!
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  4. #4
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    Default

    Your quote from Korel above is a little confusing as he is asking people to call in support of the bill.

    You are asking us to call and say we don't support it, correct?

    Maybe you could make it a little more clear?


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartsongHorses View Post
    Your quote from Korel above is a little confusing as he is asking people to call in support of the bill.

    You are asking us to call and say we don't support it, correct?

    Maybe you could make it a little more clear?
    Thank you for caring and responding, Heart.
    I did write this:

    "The legislation that she has crafted with State Senator Tony Avella is now in the Cities Committee, and we need HORSEMEN to weigh in and let the legislators know that they SUPPORT the NYC carriage industry, and are AGAINST this bill, which not only shuts down a thriving, iconic business, but effectively SEIZES our horses, setting a dangerous precedent for horse owners everywhere."

    ....but if it was unclear to you, it will be unclear to others, so I appreciate the heads up. I will edit the post
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeartsongHorses View Post
    Your quote from Korel above is a little confusing as he is asking people to call in support of the bill.

    You are asking us to call and say we don't support it, correct?

    Maybe you could make it a little more clear?
    OK, done! Thanx again
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
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    Thanks. I got it the first time, but this being a public board with lots of different readers, I thought in this case it was VERY important everyone got the correct message.

    Thank you for standing on the front lines for horse owners everywhere.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
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    Mass emailed them all. I hope others take the time to do so as well.

    "Dear Sirs and Ma'am's

    My name is Heather Smith. I live out of State but visit your city multiple times a year. I have almost two decades in the animal medical industry and am an avid equestrian. I have great sympathy that your day to day must be filled with weeding through all the bills no matter how nonsensical. I am here to ask you to please explicitly reject Bills S-667 in the Senate and A-997 in the Assembly. These Bills outlining the banning of Horse and Carriages in New York city reek of absurdity and are the product of emotional manipulation. I have first hand knowledge and experience with the horses their housing , their drivers , owners , and providers and can explicitly say they are cared for not only properly but undeniably. What these groups are calling for will not only destroy the livelihood of hard working citizens but it negates their rights. These owners have never been convicted of neglect or abuse yet the bills are based solely on the assumption of abusive practices where non have been found. I will not even delve into the legislative night mare that will arise if said bill is passed and owners with no convictions of abuse are REQUIRED to remand their horses over to non working homes or sanctuaries.


    Please take a moment and read this provided site http://thebarnrules.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/18/ and please DO NOT lend bills S-667 in the Senate and A-997 in the Assembly your support

    Respectfully
    Heather Smith"





    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
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    I am sending the following (yes, I am long-winded!):

    My name is Laura McFarland-Taylor. I have lived in the tri-state area and worked in NYC for many years and I come “home” as often as I can. I am also a horsewoman and I am writing to you regarding Senate Bill S-667 and Assembly Bill A-997, which would ban the NYC carriage horses. I respectfully request that you do NOT support these bills.

    I would like to address two aspects of the bill:

    First, this:

    “…Since opening up these midtown streets to the horse drawn cabs, numerous accidents have occurred posing grave danger to the animals, passenger's, motorists and pedestrians. In September 2009 a carriage driver was seriously injured after a taxi on Fifth Avenue collided with a horse carriage in the middle of the afternoon. The taxi crashed into a wall and the horse and carriage careened around a corner and ultimately stopped but only after the driver suffered serious injuries and was taken away by ambulance and hospitalized.

    Two years prior in September 2007 a 12 year old horse was spooked by a loud noise while left unattended and she bolted away became entangled in the carriage wheel as she crashed into a tree. The horse went into shock and died at the scene. Prior to this at least 6 other accidents involving horse carriages occurred following another horse fatality in January 2006 where a horse pulling a carriage became startled and galloped down 9th Avenue for several blocks and collided with a vehicle. This resulted in the ultimate death of the horse and serious injury to the driver of the carriage. Unfortunately, this has become an all too familiar scenario in the streets of midtown Manhattan and something must finally be done to prevent these situations from occurring.”

    As an initial observation, without minimizing the death of any horse, or downplaying the seriousness of any injury to a driver, this recitation is seriously misleading. Considering the number of carriage rides given, the number of accidents is remarkably low – and the number of accidents in which a person or horse has been hurt is infinitesimal.

    In the past 30 (that’s THIRTY) years three carriage horses that have died as a result of collisions with traffic: Chester (1985), Tony (1990), and Spotty (2006). There have been roughly a half dozen other carriage horses who have died while at work in the past 30 (that’s THIRTY) years - most notably Charlie who died of unknown causes in October 2011 (http://tinyurl.com/cwplyk2), Smoothie in 2007 (from head trauma and shock after spooking into a tree), Juliet in 2007 (colic), and Jackie in 1999 (electrocution thanks to ConEd and stray voltage).

    A more serious flaw in the legislation is this:

    “S 17-329 Disposition of licensed horse.

    A. The department shall be notified of the transfer of ownership or other disposition of a licensed horse within [ten] FIVE days thereafter. Such notice shall include the date of disposition and [if sold in New York city,] the name and address of the buyer or other transferee and such other information as the commissioner may prescribe.

    B. A horse shall not be sold or disposed of except in a humane manner[.], WHICH, FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SUBCHAPTER SHALL MEAN ONE OF THE FOLLOWING:

    1. THE OWNER SHALL SELL OR DONATE THE HORSE TO A PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL WHO SIGNS AN ASSURANCE THAT THE HORSE WILL NOT BE SOLD AND SHALL BE KEPT SOLELY AS A COMPANION ANIMAL AND NOT EMPLOYED IN ANOTHER HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE BUSINESS OR AS A WORK HORSE AND WILL BE CARED FOR HUMANELY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE HORSE'S NATURAL LIFE; OR

    2. THE OWNER SHALL SELL OR DONATE THE HORSE TO A DULY INCORPORATED ANIMAL SANCTUARY OR DULY INCORPORATED ANIMAL PROTECTION ORGANIZATION WHOSE PRESIDENT OR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR SIGNS AN ASSURANCE THAT THE HORSE WILL NOT BE SOLD AND SHALL BE KEPT SOLELY AS A COMPANION ANIMAL AND NOT EMPLOYED IN ANOTHER HORSE-DRAWN CARRIAGE BUSINESS OR AS A WORK HORSE AND WILL BE CARED FOR HUMANELY FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE HORSE'S NATURAL LIFE.

    3. RECORDS INDICATING THE NAME, ADDRESS AND TELEPHONE NUMBER OF THE PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL, DULY INCORPORATED ANIMAL SANCTUARY OR DULY INCORPO RATED ANIMAL PROTECTION ORGANIZATION TO WHOM THE HORSE WAS SOLD OR DONATED TOGETHER WITH THE ASSURANCE SPECIFIED ABOVE SHALL BE SENT BY THE OWNER TO THE DEPARTMENT WITHIN FIVE DAYS AFTER SUCH SALE OR DONATION. A COPY OF SUCH RECORD SHALL ALSO BE MAINTAINED AT THE STABLE.”

    I am a lawyer and I read this and see nothing but red flags, such as:

    1. The horses are privately owned; how will the city/state defend the taking of private property? How will the city/state compensate the owners for the confiscation of privately owned property?

    2. If the horse is not owned by someone that lives in NYC or New York State, how do you intend to enforce this law?

    3. How do you intend to enforce this law against third parties, such as successive purchasers of a horse?

    4. Horses can live for more than 30 years and are extremely expensive to care for; if the horse is “donated” to a sanctuary, who will pay for its care?

    5. This: “KEPT SOLELY AS A COMPANION ANIMAL…” makes no sense. If a horse can be ridden or worked, the market for a good home is much broader. You may be unaware of it, but the horse market is abysmal and most people cannot afford to keep an animal that costs upwards of $1,000 PER MONTH solely as a “companion animal.”

    It may be easy for the anti-carriage horse crowd to say that there are “only” 86 carriage medallions that will be affected should the ban go into effect, but that is simply not true. There are approximately 200 NYC carriage horses, supporting hundreds of families: not just of their owners and drivers, but the vets, farriers, hay and grain suppliers, tack suppliers, stable workers, and on. And let’s not forget the farmer in Pennsylvania that picks up the stable muck for use on his mushroom farm.

    In addition, there has NEVER been a carriage horse driver cited for abuse of a carriage horse and there has NEVER been a citation for mistreatment, cruelty, etc. The anti-carriage horse people like to claim that this is because of a “lack of enforcement”, but, again, this is simply not true. There are literally hundreds of people on the street each day watching these horses – it would hardly be possible to hide the claimed abuse or accidents. There is simply nothing abusive about the NYC carriage horse trade. The horses are well-loved and well-cared for, they provide jobs and support to numerous people, and they bring a bit of joy and humanity to the streets of NYC.

    I wrote a blog post about what is really behind the push to ban carriage horses (as you may have guessed, it has nothing to do with the horses), which I invite you to read here: http://thebarnrules.wordpress.com/2012/11/02/18/

    Again, I respectfully request that you do NOT support these bills. Thank you for your time and attention.

    Laura McFarland-Taylor
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
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    I've received confirmations that my emails have been received!
    Most people don't need a $35,000 horse. They need a $1,000 horse and $34,000 in lessons.

    "I don't have to be fair… . I'm an American With a Strong, Fact-Free Opinion." (stolen off Facebook)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
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    I'd like to be able to gauge how many COTHers are weighing in -- please, if you call or email any of the legislators, post here or PM me. Thank you so much.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



  12. #12
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    I shared it with a friend who lives in Buffalo... I am guessing it carries more when support comes from in-state people...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


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  13. #13
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    Nothing like free advertising on a public BB....


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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Nothing like free advertising on a public BB....
    http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...f64cde64c0.jpg

    PSS thanks for the bump.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    4 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Nothing like free advertising on a public BB....
    Just what exactly is your perpetual problem with me and everything that I post, Stolen Virtue? I really am curious.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    Just what exactly is your perpetual problem with me and everything that I post, Stolen Virtue? I really am curious.
    Not that you read anything except the posts that support your BUSINESS. I post exactly what my problem is, I am a straight shooter and your constant advertising for carriage horses does not belong on a public BB.

    But gee, maybe I should post about how COTH members who might be having problems operating their businesses might want to PM me, I can get a contract to you and help you out with operations. I can help you with compliance issues with regulators. Just e-mail me....or post and tell me how I might be able to help your business with regulations.


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaleenflynn View Post
    Just what exactly is your perpetual problem with me and everything that I post, Stolen Virtue? I really am curious.
    Sand in her virtue.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Not that you read anything except the posts that support your BUSINESS. I post exactly what my problem is, I am a straight shooter and your constant advertising for carriage horses does not belong on a public BB.

    But gee, maybe I should post about how COTH members who might be having problems operating their businesses might want to PM me, I can get a contract to you and help you out with operations. I can help you with compliance issues with regulators. Just e-mail me....or post and tell me how I might be able to help your business with regulations.
    BTW how does asking for support in negating a bill that would abolish the industry constitute as advertisement? Last time I checked shes not booking appointments and scheduling rides.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


    10 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Not that you read anything except the posts that support your BUSINESS. I post exactly what my problem is, I am a straight shooter and your constant advertising for carriage horses does not belong on a public BB.

    But gee, maybe I should post about how COTH members who might be having problems operating their businesses might want to PM me, I can get a contract to you and help you out with operations. I can help you with compliance issues with regulators. Just e-mail me....or post and tell me how I might be able to help your business with regulations.
    can you get NYCLASS off her back?

    They have regulations.
    A lot of them....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by stolen virtue View Post
    Not that you read anything except the posts that support your BUSINESS. I post exactly what my problem is, I am a straight shooter and your constant advertising for carriage horses does not belong on a public BB.

    But gee, maybe I should post about how COTH members who might be having problems operating their businesses might want to PM me, I can get a contract to you and help you out with operations. I can help you with compliance issues with regulators. Just e-mail me....or post and tell me how I might be able to help your business with regulations.
    Ah, I see - so I assume you also register your outrage every time a stable owner posts about a situation with a boarder, or with local laws, etc, since it is their business? Or people who lease their horses? I don't know, since I don't stalk you all over the board to see what you are posting. I also did not know this board was only for people for whom horses are a hobby. I guess if one of the top celeb equestrians - who make quite a bit of money from their horses, way more than I do - I guess if they posted, you would tell them the same?
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts


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