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  1. #1
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    Default Member of the HSUS board of directors writes an article on horse slaughter and abuse

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cathy-...ushpmg00000040

    I love how "simple" the solution is to persons whose view is so clearly obstructed.
    "A large part of the solution for homeless horses are the many sanctuaries and rescue facilities where horses can be rehabilitated and placed in caring homes, or live out their days in tranquility."

    Youre right Cathy lets just send them to the plethora of sanctuaries that are online BEGGING for help to help fund and feed the horses they currently can barely care for. No offense to those doing that thankless job. I think suggesting that continuing to overburden them is horse shit. Even more amusing is the idea to ask companies with equine logo's to contribute. Sure thing let me call up Wells Fargo and tell them they are now responsible for funding XYZ horse charities.

    Further more What accidents ?? I know of one ..and the horse broke loose and ran alone to the next red light where he STOPPED like he'd been trained.
    "
    ]We also need to take a hard look at how we treat these animals. Carriage horses in New York City should be banned. Horrific accidents have occurred when a carriage horse bolted into traffic putting itself, the driver and passengers in danger."


    Last edited by Lynnwood; Feb. 5, 2013 at 12:28 AM.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  2. #2
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    "The equine breeders, themselves, are the biggest offenders. There is an over population of horses, and the breeders are complicit, even with the lack of demand. Most breeder have never taken Econ 101, they continue breeding with abandon, knowing they can DUMP their alleged loved horses into the brutal pipeline of slaughter. "

    Is this really what the rest of the equine community thinks?
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"


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  3. #3
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    When you look at my thread you will see a few who claim they love HSUS. They were very well aware that a ban against slaughter would cause economic and social problems for horses. They didn't care. PETA suggested but HSUS stated they should be the ones to collect and distribute a foal tax, a horse transfer tax "every time it is sold" to create a retirement fund.They spend only 1% on any animals from the money they collect. Dubious to think they would do any better with another excessive fund.


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  4. #4
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    Default

    I suppose your signature lines would work on her well?


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    When you look at my thread you will see a few who claim they love HSUS. They were very well aware that a ban against slaughter would cause economic and social problems for horses. They didn't care. PETA suggested but HSUS stated they should be the ones to collect and distribute a foal tax, a horse transfer tax "every time it is sold" to create a retirement fund.They spend only 1% on any animals from the money they collect. Dubious to think they would do any better with another excessive fund.
    well, since their goal is not caring for animals, but to eliminate them....all while living the posh life....



  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    "The equine breeders, themselves, are the biggest offenders. There is an over population of horses, and the breeders are complicit, even with the lack of demand. Most breeder have never taken Econ 101, they continue breeding with abandon, knowing they can DUMP their alleged loved horses into the brutal pipeline of slaughter. "

    Is this really what the rest of the equine community thinks?
    The rhetoric is over the top, but I think there is a grain of truth in it, and I also think that's what a large part of the educated equine community privately thinks/says. I would say that breeders are not the biggest offenders, but that some are offenders. Basic principles of demand and supply dictate that when supply exceeds demand you create a surplus. Pretend these were toy horses instead of living creatures. If there is a demand for 1 million toy horses but you consistently produce 2 million, what happens to the surplus? You have to dramatically lower the price, give them away, or destroy them. Or you can just warehouse them somewhere for a few years, but you can't do that with living horses.

    There are good breeders and bad breeders. Some breeders breed knowing that they can dump the surplus horses. Others are dreamers who can't see what they are doing. Both are complicit in different ways. And, again, there are good breeders.

    This is what Boyd Martin had to say at the MSEDA meeting about breeding for eventing:

    In America, I don’t think we have much of a breeding program here yet. I can only think of five breeders over here in the US that are breeding exactly what we’re after for eventing; the majority of breeding in America is someone’s got a mare that’s gone lame and then they buy some frozen semen and breeds it, and that’s sad when you compare it a nation like Germany.
    I would say it applies to all sports disciplines (and even more to racing, QH's, etc.), and almost everyone I know would agree. So that's the truth as I see it.
    Last edited by TemJeito; Feb. 5, 2013 at 07:07 AM.


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  7. #7
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    The AQHA has had a 50% drop in registration over the past 5 years.
    I think that many/most breeders are responding to the market conditions.

    We had been breeding here since 1910.
    We quit breeding in 1984.
    We could then already see that kind of horse oversupply is not what we wanted to contribute to.
    Nothing since changed our minds.
    We are still in that kind of world and many others have been feeling the same way.

    That doesn't mean those today that are breeding with care are not caring.
    They just have a harder time getting the offspring sold where it can thrive.

    There is NO WAY we can expect every horse born to be a winner or without defect, as a toy coming out of an assembly line.

    Everything alive is at risk while alive, if it is a domestic animal, born wild or the human animal, is how the world of the living works.
    I think that domestic animals, here horses, have their place also.
    How many and what place, that will be, as with humans, an accident of birth.

    Lets keep working at making the world better for all, whatever path it follows.
    Lets not fall for throwing the baby out with the bathwater ideologies, as animal rights proponents do, trying to make animals off limits to humans, reflected here, courtesy of the president of the HSUS:
    "One generation and no more domestic animals and none too soon for me".


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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    The rhetoric is over the top, but I think there is a grain of truth in it, and I also think that's what a large part of the educated equine community privately thinks/says.
    I agree. Does it apply to every breeder? Of course not, nor do all breeders think so overtly, but then again is willful blindness like "Lalala, all my horsies will find other homes if they don't pan out in racing/halter/whatever industry they're breeding for" that much better? I'd prefer the industries to acknowledge reality.

    Of course some breeders, especially the ones that get in over their head, don't seem to consider the slaughter option at all. But looking at the aftermath of some of those cases, reality is just a passing acquaintance to some folk


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  9. #9
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    yeah, the evul breeders...


    have a horse, thank a breeder.

    it's a long term risk these individuals and farms take so when the time is right and you need to replace your current mount you can go out and buy one.

    Or, of course, you can breed that replacement horse yourself, spend the $$ to get the mare in foal, wait 11 month for the foal be born, another 3 or 4 until you can ride it.....a 5 year commitment. And then you have to take what you get.


    yeah, the breeders are really mean that they take this chance with the horses they produce.


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  10. #10
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    When you look at my thread you will see a few who claim they love HSUS. They were very well aware that a ban against slaughter would cause economic and social problems for horses. They didn't care. PETA suggested but HSUS stated they should be the ones to collect and distribute a foal tax, a horse transfer tax "every time it is sold" to create a retirement fund.They spend only 1% on any animals from the money they collect. Dubious to think they would do any better with another excessive fund.
    Oh Lordy, stop directing people to *your* thread Leo. You get enough attention as it is.

    And the people over there proclaiming "love" of the HSUS? They're screwing with you. Why? Because like the over-reactive recruit in BT, it's fun to tease you. You tend to get very ranty very easily. *Very* few people of even this pretty large BB are HSUS supporters. Most loathe them and any other AR group.


    Lynwood...sadly the HSUS knows full well what they're "reporting" is false and misleading. Ever notice how their "articles" show up on non-equine and non-livestock type publications? Places where those who know bupkis about livestock congregate? Very much planned, as is the emotion based wording they use and ridiculous excess of hyperbole that wouldn't be out of place in a Disney script. The general public eats that stuff up. And there's a hella lot more non-horsie general public than there are knowledgeable horse owners out there.

    Of course "all the rescues and sanctuaries will take in these animals and they'll romp forever in green fields" sounds awesome and the general public will be all for "stop mean, cruel horse killing" and "let them run free on someone else's dime!"
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post


    yeah, the evul breeders...


    have a horse, thank a breeder.

    it's a long term risk these individuals and farms take so when the time is right and you need to replace your current mount you can go out and buy one.

    Or, of course, you can breed that replacement horse yourself, spend the $$ to get the mare in foal, wait 11 month for the foal be born, another 3 or 4 until you can ride it.....a 5 year commitment. And then you have to take what you get.


    yeah, the breeders are really mean that they take this chance with the horses they produce.
    Oh come off it. It's not black or white, breeders evil or breeders wonderful. The reality is, something like breeding for racing for ex isn't done so little Suzie Q can have a nice gelding to cart her around the Short Stirrup division when the time comes, it's to breed successful racers. The culls and the retirees find secondary jobs and that's great, but that's not the reason the breeders are breeding.
    And in harder financial times not all the culls and retirees find a soft landing, and that's just the reality of the industry.


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    Oh come off it. It's not black or white, breeders evil or breeders wonderful. The reality is, something like breeding for racing for ex isn't done so little Suzie Q can have a nice gelding to cart her around the Short Stirrup division when the time comes, it's to breed successful racers. The culls and the retirees find secondary jobs and that's great, but that's not the reason the breeders are breeding.
    And in harder financial times not all the culls and retirees find a soft landing, and that's just the reality of the industry.
    So to adjust to your view of the world everybody is to ride a cast off, if they can ride it or not, whether the horse can do the job or not.

    You forget the reality of life vs what those idiots put in print, one rainbow colored stationary.

    We have taken a huge hit in numbers over the last few years.
    Once things return to 'normal' I expect the lack of new horses to play into the market in an adverse role.
    The year Kentucky lost all those foals due to the freak cherry/catarpillar poisoning, all were upset on how it would affect the Derby selections. And that was nothing compared to the continued reduction of breedings.

    But since a lot of people are getting out of horses as well now, too, maybe all is well.
    I am sure the zoos can spare a few acres for 'Equus domesticus'

    But then again, that IS what they are after.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    So to adjust to your view of the world everybody is to ride a cast off, if they can ride it or not, whether the horse can do the job or not.

    You forget the reality of life vs what those idiots put in print, one rainbow colored stationary.

    We have taken a huge hit in numbers over the last few years.
    Once things return to 'normal' I expect the lack of new horses to play into the market in an adverse role.
    The year Kentucky lost all those foals due to the freak cherry/catarpillar poisoning, all were upset on how it would affect the Derby selections. And that was nothing compared to the continued reduction of breedings.

    But since a lot of people are getting out of horses as well now, too, maybe all is well.
    I am sure the zoos can spare a few acres for 'Equus domesticus'

    But then again, that IS what they are after.
    If you need a tin foil hat, I have plenty to spare.

    Too bad this is too serious a topic to make fun of lightly.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    When you look at my thread you will see a few who claim they love HSUS. They were very well aware that a ban against slaughter would cause economic and social problems for horses. They didn't care. PETA suggested but HSUS stated they should be the ones to collect and distribute a foal tax, a horse transfer tax "every time it is sold" to create a retirement fund.They spend only 1% on any animals from the money they collect. Dubious to think they would do any better with another excessive fund.
    Except anyone with a grain of sense and who has read my posts over the years knows that my post was sarcastic; that I'm not a fan of HSUS and as a matter of fact, not anti slaughter. There are worse things than death.

    But carry on Fairfax.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    If you need a tin foil hat, I have plenty to spare.

    Too bad this is too serious a topic to make fun of lightly.
    Thank you, I think I have stocked up enough but I do appreciate the offer.

    There is enough in the industry that needs to be fixed.
    but some things cannot be fixed without stopping the whole chain of events.


    And over the top rhetoric is hardly an accident. These groups have enough money to hire pulitzer prize winning authors to craft their papers.
    The wording is carefully chosen to reach the target audience: the 13 year old horse crazy girl who won't get past the stuffed pony or Breyer horse ever, as well as Grandma and Grandpa with a couple of bucks to spare, the animal loving city dweller who has no earthly clue as how animals are raised.


    Life is not rainbow colored.
    Or rather the bright colors are shown off against a background of storm clouds and shadows.

    Every time a breeder puts a pairing into reality they hope for the best. But the law of averages is against them: According to some sources you can only expect 50% medium quality get, even with top notch breeding: Something Royal only dropped one Secretariat, and his name shows in many sport horse pedigrees....

    it is easy to poo-poo the people who take the risk, when down the line so many hands are in the pie.


    But yeah, in the end, you own a horse, somebody down the line took that risk, bred a mare, so you could own the beast.

    The breeders are packing it up, the fallout has yet to be seen.


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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    "The equine breeders, themselves, are the biggest offenders. There is an over population of horses, and the breeders are complicit, even with the lack of demand. Most breeder have never taken Econ 101, they continue breeding with abandon, knowing they can DUMP their alleged loved horses into the brutal pipeline of slaughter. "

    Is this really what the rest of the equine community thinks?
    HSUS is hardly a part of the equine community.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    HSUS is hardly a part of the equine community.
    nah...they just have plenty of supporters undercover.....


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  18. #18
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    Boyd Martin nailed it. Take a look at posts on COTH. How many newbies who don't have a clue what they're doing want to breed their own foal. And many fellow posters encourage them. I just don't get it.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Thank you, I think I have stocked up enough but I do appreciate the offer.

    There is enough in the industry that needs to be fixed.
    but some things cannot be fixed without stopping the whole chain of events.


    And over the top rhetoric is hardly an accident. These groups have enough money to hire pulitzer prize winning authors to craft their papers.
    The wording is carefully chosen to reach the target audience: the 13 year old horse crazy girl who won't get past the stuffed pony or Breyer horse ever, as well as Grandma and Grandpa with a couple of bucks to spare, the animal loving city dweller who has no earthly clue as how animals are raised.


    Life is not rainbow colored.
    Or rather the bright colors are shown off against a background of storm clouds and shadows.

    Every time a breeder puts a pairing into reality they hope for the best. But the law of averages is against them: According to some sources you can only expect 50% medium quality get, even with top notch breeding: Something Royal only dropped one Secretariat, and his name shows in many sport horse pedigrees....

    it is easy to poo-poo the people who take the risk, when down the line so many hands are in the pie.


    But yeah, in the end, you own a horse, somebody down the line took that risk, bred a mare, so you could own the beast.

    The breeders are packing it up, the fallout has yet to be seen.
    Yes



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Youre right Cathy lets just send them to the plethora of sanctuaries that are online BEGGING for help to help fund and feed the horses they currently can barely care for. No offense to those doing that thankless job. I think suggesting that continuing to overburden them is horse shit.


    I run a rescue and I'm not offended. I don't think that we're in the 'horses they can currently barely care for', but that's because we say no to incoming horses every week, possibly every day. The numbers in the organization are normally a bit stretched, but we try hard to keep them manageable. But saying no so often is hard!

    However, having someone who apparently has little knowledge of most rescues say that we should all just take in and then rehome all the unwanted horses is insane. She had better start writing some big checks to the rescues so that we can all afford to help more horses.

    I LOVE being told that those of us who run rescues should be responsible for taking in all the unwanted or slaughter bound horses. Of course, we should do it without help from those telling us to do it...
    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com


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