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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dramapony_misty View Post
    I love breads (homemade), and pasta, and cookies, and cake, and all of those great wheat-laden goodies. I don't know if I could ever go paleo (just like I know I could never be a vegetarian as I just love my meats way too much), but I'm considering giving up bread and pasta (and anything made from wheat flour) for lent. It's only 40days afterall, right?

    I will still eat my oatmeal and rice, though.

    Anyone have any good healthy wheat-alternative pasta suggestions? If I don't make some sort of pasta for 40 days, I think my husband will divorce me.
    Zucchini makes a fantastic sub for pasta in chicken and italian dishes. Another great sub is spaghetti squash. You can cut up the zucchini like noodles. I really like it much better than the noodles made from grains. All grains are fattening and wheat is just the worst of them.


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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by sophie View Post
    Someone earlier in this thread mentioned that the modern wheat we eat may be the culprit compared to the "heirloom" wheat variety. How do you know what you are eating tho? And where can you get "heirloom" (as in, Non-Monsanto) wheat products?
    Pretty easy...if it's for sale in a grocery store and not labeled as an heirloom or specific type of wheat like Einkorn or Emmer (Biblical varieties), than it's almost certainly made from the newer dwarf varieties that have been linked to so many human health issues. Pasta can sometimes be found that Semolina or Durum...those are old varieties but make sure that they are no mixed with the cheaper stuff and it's not just a labeling trick. Spelt is a first cousin to wheat and related. It can sometimes be found in grocery stores in the specialty area of the freezers. You won't find it fresh most likely.

    I'm told that you can buy heirloom wheat varieties on line. I've never tried but it may be worth looking at. You'd have to bake your own bread but that's better than eating garbage like you buy in the grocery store.

    What is funny about bread today is take a look at the labels. It is full of soy flour and so many preservatives also to keep it from molding, etc... I've had it sitting in the barn in a trash can unrefrigerated for weeks and it won't mold..it will dry out and get hard but I've not seen mold yet. I fed it at one point to my pigs and chickens and decided to stop. Anything that won't mold or break down in some way after sitting out is not really food unless it's one of the exceptions to the rule like honey or nuts.

    There is a site on line where someone has kept a McDonalds hamburger...meat and bun...for years...every year for a long time and the original early ones still look like how they put it on your plate.

    Seriously folks, whether you want to give up wheat or not, do not eat this stuff. It can't be good for you.


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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboymom View Post
    I hope you all realize you're basically on Atkins now! LOL Most people that are well into Atkins eat exactly like the Paleo model... and I consider all of it to be a very good blueprint for healthy eating. It's certainly a lot more accepted now than it used to be.
    Atkins says nothing about your meat source though. Paleo tries to get you to focus on top quality meat sources like grass fed beef and whatnot, as well as staying away from preservatives and sulfites (bacon). I also don't remember how Atkins felt about healthy fats, nuts and dairy but Paleo has some pretty specific ideas on how to treat those.

    And for anyone who is thinking of doing Paleo, please give it more than just "one to two weeks". Its going to take a lot more time than that to tell if its going to work for you. I would give it at least a month, especially if you have been eating a good amount grains/dairy/inflammatory foods.

    Quote Originally Posted by theblondejumper View Post
    I have been working my way through a bottle of fermented cod liver oil from Green Pastures and it is very very beneficial. I have not been as diligent about taking it as I could be but I am really glad that I do. It makes me feel more alert and clear headed.
    Please do tell me more about this-I have a friend who swears by it too but the cost has prevented me from taking the plunge. Do you take the capsules or the oil? Do you get the one with the butter added?

    Also up for questioning if anyone has tried it...Bulletproof coffee? My gym owner recently got addicted and is trying to get everyone to try it, lol.



  4. #104
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    Here is one article about the McDonalds non destructible food. This is seriously disgusting.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#axzz2KEMHovHB


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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateKat View Post

    Also up for questioning if anyone has tried it...Bulletproof coffee? My gym owner recently got addicted and is trying to get everyone to try it, lol.
    f

    A friend of mine brought me some one day at the Farmer's Market. It was a lot better than I expected. I think you have to use a blender to make it correctly so I haven't bothered to do it here. Just too much trouble first thing in the morning for me!



  6. #106
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    I think minimizing grains is a great idea; but many non-western cultures have eaten grains for centuries without the western problems of obesity & health issues...so I don't know that I am convinced that "grains" are the biggest issue v. preparation of the grains and quantity in a diet
    this is a good point- however, most of these cultures eat rice, not wheat-corn, and don't consume any dairy at all. Plus they tend to eat a lot of seafood. I think the key is reducing inflammation by eating non-inflammatory foods.

    Also keep in mind that what your meat sources eat is passed on to you- if the cow ate mostly corn before you ate the cow, you might as well just eat corn. Factory-farms and feedlots are a relatively recent invention and the low nutritional quality of factory-farmed meat may be a major factor in our recent dietary related ill health.


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  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateKat View Post
    Please do tell me more about this-I have a friend who swears by it too but the cost has prevented me from taking the plunge. Do you take the capsules or the oil? Do you get the one with the butter added?
    Sure! I started reading a lot of "real food" blogs last fall and learning more about the Weston A. Price Foundation as well as Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. And I kept reading over and over about how FERMENTED cod liver oil was one of the best things you could add to your diet.

    http://www.greenpasture.org/public/P...rOil/index.cfm

    This is the kind I buy. I started taking it on November 1st and still have not finished the bottle because after a few weeks I started getting lazy and taking it less regularly + I don't take it with me when I travel. I have the cinnamon tingle flavor and I keep it in the fridge. It came with a syringe that measures out 1 teaspoon. I fill that, squirt it towards the BACK of my tongue and then chug some water. Super easy and it just tastes like cinnamon to me. There is some fish taste but I don't hate it.

    When I have the funds again I'm going to try the butter oil one, since I've heard it just tastes like butter! It's kind of like the "premium" option. I hate swallowing pills so the liquid works for me!



  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    Factory-farms and feedlots are a relatively recent invention and the low nutritional quality of factory-farmed meat may be a major factor in our recent dietary related ill health.
    I am going to a screening of this documentary on meat in the U.S., American Meat. Should be really thought-provoking and a good discussion!

    http://www.americanmeatfilm.com/



  9. #109
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    In addition to The Wheat Belly, what are some other good books (cookbooks included) for paleo/primal living and eating? I am heading to a book store on my lunch break, and I would love to get some books for reading and recipes!



  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Here is one article about the McDonalds non destructible food. This is seriously disgusting.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#axzz2KEMHovHB


    That paper has the reputation of being....well, not trust worthy.
    The natives call it 'Daily Fail'

    so while I am far from claiming McDonald's as health food (even the salad options) THAT story I don't buy!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by KateKat View Post
    Atkins says nothing about your meat source though. Paleo tries to get you to focus on top quality meat sources like grass fed beef and whatnot, as well as staying away from preservatives and sulfites (bacon). I also don't remember how Atkins felt about healthy fats, nuts and dairy but Paleo has some pretty specific ideas on how to treat those.

    And for anyone who is thinking of doing Paleo, please give it more than just "one to two weeks". Its going to take a lot more time than that to tell if its going to work for you. I would give it at least a month, especially if you have been eating a good amount grains/dairy/inflammatory foods.



    Please do tell me more about this-I have a friend who swears by it too but the cost has prevented me from taking the plunge. Do you take the capsules or the oil? Do you get the one with the butter added?

    Also up for questioning if anyone has tried it...Bulletproof coffee? My gym owner recently got addicted and is trying to get everyone to try it, lol.
    What I tried to say is the people that have been on Atkins for any length of time, like YEARS, not two weeks, usually absolutely HAVE FOCUSED on the quality of their diet. They are the biggest proponents of organic eggs, grass fed beef, fresh from the farm, and all the other things being talked about here. I learned more on the ATKINS board about all of this than I have anywhere else. The Atkins people were doing Paleo before Paleo was cool and I think they get an honorable mention. K?


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  12. #112
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    if you read the scientific literature (which I do), you'll note that in addition to talking about the healthy effects of low-carbohydrate diets (paleo, atkins, south beach), they also talk about the healthy effects of the Mediterranean diet. This is the only diet that is thought to be extremely healthy that is NOT specifically low-carb, and it features olive oil, fish, and lots of vegetables. The only things it has in common with the other healthy diets (the low carb ones) is the concern about eating lots of vegetables, and it is high in fat, but only in certain types of fat. It may be OK to eat grains if you also eat a lot of olive oil and/or fish (aka a certain type of fat). But if you eat grains plus the wrong profile of fat, you're doomed. Bread with butter on it plus a grain-fed beef steak is a deadly meal; pasta with olive oil and some wild-caught salmon might not be. It might be all about the kinds of fat you eat.



  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    this is a good point- however, most of these cultures eat rice, not wheat-corn, and don't consume any dairy at all. Plus they tend to eat a lot of seafood. I think the key is reducing inflammation by eating non-inflammatory foods.

    Also keep in mind that what your meat sources eat is passed on to you- if the cow ate mostly corn before you ate the cow, you might as well just eat corn. Factory-farms and feedlots are a relatively recent invention and the low nutritional quality of factory-farmed meat may be a major factor in our recent dietary related ill health.
    Yes, I agree with you -- wheat, corn, and corn-fed animals are a big problem in western diet. Plus the highly refined, over processed foods that make up the rest of our diet.

    There are other cultures that don't eat just rice, such as Eastern European countries that eat a lot of buckwheat, millet and other whole grains. In general, I don't think that "grains" are the most evil part of a western diet, but the quantity and quality of the grains we typically eat. Many countries also regularly eat fermented food for their health (and I'll very happily choose homemade saurkraut over fermented cod liver oil any day <<gag>> )

    I guess my other issue with the paleo diet is that it's simply not very sustainable, period. I see no one chimed in on my question about feeding it to kids - to be honest, I think they would be hungry and my grocery bill would be outrageous.

    Bacon & eggs for breakfast, almond flour which is sort of an unusual, specialty item that is not grown locally, nuts for a daily snack, salads and fresh veggies all year round (trucked to us from California)...and the amount of meat is too high for me - especially with a family. It's expensive and not very sustainable to plan to consume 1-2lbs of meat per person at dinner...if you had to grow your own meat you probably would not be able to afford to eat paleo. You would struggle to feed your own animals in a sustainable (grass-based) method if you went through 30-40lbs of meat a week.

    I agree that modern wheat and corn are not good for most people OR animals; I'm just not convinced that grains in moderation, are necessarily the worst part of our "western" diet and food culture (snacking, fast food, eating the largest meal of our day in the evening, etc.)


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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Believe that if you wish. Try it sometime...give it up for a few weeks and then try to eat it again.
    You are totally missing the point (on purpose I believe).
    Remove any food group for a few weeks and the same thing will happen when you add it back in.


    I have been following the <gasp> Carb Lovers Diet. Whole grains, lots of beans, fresh veggies, etc.
    Not only have I lost weight, I feel much better and my digestive system is much happier.
    I think those are all the same things you have been saying giving up grains will do....
    The bottom line is, following this diet is forcing Healthy moderation on me. Moderation is the key.


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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post

    I guess my other issue with the paleo diet is that it's simply not very sustainable, period. I see no one chimed in on my question about feeding it to kids - to be honest, I think they would be hungry and my grocery bill would be outrageous.
    I'm not a parent but I am pretty sure there are some sources out there now for parents doing paleo for kids. Considering the link now between ADHD, autism and some other "new" disorders and modern wheat, I'd think this would be more of a priority for parents. Not even counting the obesity epidemic and how many children suffer from this and Type II diabetes. Kids don't need the excessive sugar and carbs any more than adults do and in some cases it's very detrimental.

    I found this with a quick google search.

    http://www.growinguppaleo.com
    http://paleoparents.com
    http://www.cavekitchen.com/p/paleo-kids.html
    http://paleoforkids.net/paleo-diet-f...ies-with-kids/

    That ought to answer your questions but all the people I know with kids on diets like this are healthy, normal weight and seem fine to me.

    As for cost, sure it's more than processed junk but how much is good health worth? Priceless.

    As for sustainable, I've been doing it for 2 years. Yes occasionally I'll eat something off the diet and often regret it with how crappy I feel...but mostly it's not that hard. You just have good foods around you and try not to be led into temptation.

    Feeding cattle on grass is WAY less expensive than grain feeding them. Grains for animals is very expensive now. My cattle eat hay and grass...period...not expensive at all. Chickens are way more expensive to feed proportionately as they have to eat grain.



  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBayHanoMare View Post
    In addition to The Wheat Belly, what are some other good books (cookbooks included) for paleo/primal living and eating? I am heading to a book store on my lunch break, and I would love to get some books for reading and recipes!
    The Paleo Diet (L. Cordain)
    The Paleo Solutino (R. Woff)
    Paleo Comfort Foods

    There are a ton of blogs now for recipes on line also.



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    You are totally missing the point (on purpose I believe).
    Remove any food group for a few weeks and the same thing will happen when you add it back in.

    Nope, not missing the point at all. I just don't agree with your point. I think that wheat is inflammatory and damaging to everyone who consumes it. You may not realize it but your body does.



  18. #118
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    I understand that excessive sugars are a bad thing (duh), but I find it amazing that people actually believe that all humans on earth are derived from a fabled cave-people living 250,000 years ago on a strict diet which caused genetic selection for a rigidly-defined organism that now, in its billions of bodies, is only able to live while eating a rigid diet and *not living the same lifestyle at all*. Why aren't more people crying foul about heated shelter, electronics, cell phone use, commuting, lack of exercise, birthing while lying down, vaccinations, prosthetic limbs, shoes, braces, college educations, marriage, single-family homes, etc.? Aren't these things "unnatural" too? **Edited to Add- I am NOT saying I disbelieve the existence of humans 250,000 years ago. I AM saying I don't believe their lifestyle is being accurately imitated now and I don't understand the genetic extent, from my genes to yours, of the need to absolutely abstain from consuming all carbs and legumes (unless you have a mutation called celiac disease).**

    I also find it presumptuous to think that for the last 10,000 years, humans globe-wide have been suffering from the toxicity of their agricultural diet. Ooooh, what a long time to be making a mistake! Again, I am not saying eating Wonder Bread-based diets is a good idea, but I am saying that hating corn, rice, legumes, etc. seems excessive to me.

    Before you get inflamed (hehe) by my post, remember that I agree, excessive sugar is a bad thing. But this isn't rocket science. I am a fit and healthy person and yes, I ate a peanutbutter bagel this morning. I went swimming last night. I rode 4 horses the day before. Today I'm going hiking. I'll eat a healthy dinner with whole foods, and I will feel and I do feel GREAT. Once in a while, I will have a treat - a donut or ice cream - probably 1-2 times a week. I LOVE MILK and drink about 3/4 gallon a week. Otherwise, I eat whole foods and include carbs, usually complex. I do use lower-carb grains for nutrition purposes and less water retention. I like spelt, for example. I love sweet potatoes. I eat lean meat only (due to preference for taste). I love eggs. Peanuts are something I eat all the time and have for my whole life. And yet, I feel great, have tons of energy, look younger than I am, and complete athletic programs.
    Maybe I am some sort of genetic exception?


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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    I'm not a parent but I am pretty sure there are some sources out there now for parents doing paleo for kids. Considering the link now between ADHD, autism and some other "new" disorders and modern wheat, I'd think this would be more of a priority for parents. Not even counting the obesity epidemic and how many children suffer from this and Type II diabetes. Kids don't need the excessive sugar and carbs any more than adults do and in some cases it's very detrimental.

    I found this with a quick google search.

    http://www.growinguppaleo.com
    http://paleoparents.com
    http://www.cavekitchen.com/p/paleo-kids.html
    http://paleoforkids.net/paleo-diet-f...ies-with-kids/

    That ought to answer your questions but all the people I know with kids on diets like this are healthy, normal weight and seem fine to me.

    As for cost, sure it's more than processed junk but how much is good health worth? Priceless.

    As for sustainable, I've been doing it for 2 years. Yes occasionally I'll eat something off the diet and often regret it with how crappy I feel...but mostly it's not that hard. You just have good foods around you and try not to be led into temptation.

    Feeding cattle on grass is WAY less expensive than grain feeding them. Grains for animals is very expensive now. My cattle eat hay and grass...period...not expensive at all. Chickens are way more expensive to feed proportionately as they have to eat grain.
    I certainly won't argue that we SHOULD feed our kids processed wheat, corn and corn sugar, candy and McDonald's. We are in agreement on that, of course.

    I am only questioning whether families find this as simple and affordable as it is for one or two people. And whether the conservative introduction of whole grains and legumes can be "safely" eaten without the side effects of a "western diet". Other cultures eat grains and don't suffer from obesity and Type II diabetes like we do - so they can't be THE cause of these problems.

    Feeding cattle on grass is "less expensive" (if you have enough grass, fencing, etc.) but from what I understand, takes longer to raise to slaughter weight. I have not done an actual cost comparison to see if it's actually "cheaper" to feed them on grass alone if they need to grow longer and you cannot raise as many on the same acreage. (And I am NOT suggesting grain fed cattle is better - I am a big supporter of grass-fed cattle). I'm just wondering if it could be affordable to eat a paleo diet if you raised your own meat (especially with a family).

    I have organic, free-range chickens in my freezer from a friend. She can barely bring herself to eat them after the expense and time it took to raise them. Certainly she would never be able to imagine eating a 1-2lbs of chicken per day per person in her house (5 people total)..that would be at least two chickens a day (dressed weight is 5-6 lbs per bird but they don't eat the bones...) I realize they are different (not grass fed), but what about pigs; they must also be more expensive (pound for pound) to raise than cattle on grass?

    Anyway, I like many of the points of the paleo diet -- but others don't fit into my ideals -- which include eating locally and sustainably. So, somewhere there has to be a happy medium for me, I suppose.



  20. #120

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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    You are totally missing the point (on purpose I believe).
    Remove any food group for a few weeks and the same thing will happen when you add it back in.
    Not true. There is just too much research behind modern day wheat to ignore the effects of it. And, the research is continuing and increasing our knowledge of it. Also, as I mentioned in my original post, when I started the diet I cut every food out of my diet except for about 5 items (meats, carrots, yogurt, eggs, banana). I did not add any seeds or nuts back in until almost 2 months. I had NO problems with them. I added coconut in at 2 months, NO problems. I only had squash and carrots as veggies for the first 3 weeks and then started adding in other veggies. I did not have a problem with any vegetable. When I veered off the diet a bit around the holidays 3 months into the diet, with Corn and Potatoes, NO problems. Almost 4 months into the diet I have had unfermented or not aged dairy and NO problems. In fact, I ALWAYS had stomach issues when eating Avocados. I tried Avocados 2 weeks ago and much to my surprise, NO problems. I had ZERO problems adding foods back in and my diet started as clean and simple as can be short of eating nothing.

    When people have problems with foods, they either have a true allergy (very small percentages of people), they have gut flora problems (I suspect from research this is a large segment of the population), or the food really is not meant to be consumed by humans. I believe, at this point with the research available, heirloom wheat prepared traditionally (fermented, ie traditional sourdough), in moderation can be part of the diet. If a person is having troubles with it, they more than likely have gut flora issues. Celiacs and heirloom wheat are still very questionable. Small studies have been run showing Celiacs can eat Heirloom wheat. This is why I am running an experiment on myself. I am a perfect candidate, since I am not a hidden Celiac (asymptomatic with questionable blood results). I am very symptomatic with high blood numbers when on modern day wheat. Modern day wheat falls into the last category, in that it should not be consumed by humans.

    I am not strict Paleo, or SCD or GAPS, because I believe some of the problems stemming from our modern food is the way it is prepared. When you look at traditionally prepared foods, fermentation was HUGE. Fermentation essentially starts the digestion process of the food before it even hits your body. The cultures who had grains in their diets, fermented their grains. This does change the way the grain is processed by your body. However, since most people don't have time or the knowledge to properly prepare grains, it is a better idea to keep them out of the diet.

    EDITED to add : my diet is evolving as I continue my research.
    Last edited by Sporthorse Shop; Feb. 7, 2013 at 03:13 PM.



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