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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Discobold View Post
    I know a lot of people are getting benefits from this diet, but I really don't want to eat like ancestors who were genetically closer to apes than to me. There are three reasons I can't do it anyway: I'm vegan, I can't give up coffee, I can't give up wine
    We are humans eating like earlier humans, not some other species. But you are right, in that, vegan is not compatible with the more natural "paleo" diet.
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #342
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    I know a lot of people are getting benefits from this diet, but I really don't want to eat like ancestors who were genetically closer to apes than to me. There are three reasons I can't do it anyway: I'm vegan, I can't give up coffee, I can't give up wine
    um, this is the diet your VERY CLOSE ancestors ate- in some cases (depending on your origin), as recently as a generation or two ago. Namely, people who were practically identical to you in genetics.

    Why are you a vegan? for ethical reasons? because it's not a healthy way to eat, so if you think you're improving your health by being a vegan, you are very wrong. Humans are biologically omnivores with very strong carnivorous leanings. Most studies on "humans in the natural state" find that animals/fish make up at least 60% of the diet. Vegans tend to develop serious malnutrition problems unless they consume artificial supplements.
    If you don't want to eat mammals or birds for ethical reasons, that's understandable; such people should probably consider eating large quantities of insects instead. Insects are a major part of the diet in many cultures today, and were probably a major part of the diet of our hunter-gatherer ancestors.
    Personally, I'd rather eat Bambi and Babe the pig than grasshoppers.


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  3. #343
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    Exactly right Wendy, this is the way our bodies were designed to eat.
    Our brains may have evolved and out civilization but our physical bodies are still the same.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #344
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    I know a lot of people are getting benefits from this diet, but I really don't want to eat like ancestors who were genetically closer to apes than to me. There are three reasons I can't do it anyway: I'm vegan, I can't give up coffee, I can't give up wine
    Those are three reasons you won't, not three reasons that you can't - just for the record.


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  5. #345
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    Daydream Believer, I thought I was lactose intolerant for years! Turns out if I avoid gluten VERY carefully (not sure yet if I have celiac's or am otherwise intolerant) then my body can handle dairy products like cheese and yogurt just fine.

    I also find the gluten free substitute products tend to not make me feel very well.


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  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by RiderInTheRain View Post
    Daydream Believer, I thought I was lactose intolerant for years! Turns out if I avoid gluten VERY carefully (not sure yet if I have celiac's or am otherwise intolerant) then my body can handle dairy products like cheese and yogurt just fine.

    I also find the gluten free substitute products tend to not make me feel very well.
    Since I have given up wheat, I do not even do the products that have Gluten in them either. According to the Wheat Belly book they still contain Wheat just not the Gluten.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  7. #347
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    I've had the blood work a couple of times and am not suffering from celiac disease accordingly.
    however, the symptoms SUCK--bloating, constipation, itchy,red skin, and hard abdomen fat--six months preggers looking fat!
    and yet when I needed an upper endoscopy the tech doing the test exclaimed at the amount of damage she saw inside me.
    so no wheat or gluten and I feel so much better, abdomen fat and weight is steadily decreasing, so that's enough evidence for me.

    otoh, I recently read that Ezekiel sprouted breads can be ok for some, as the gluten protein is destroyed when sprouted. yesterday I tried a couple of pieces because I felt pretty queasy all day (suspect an old fashioned hangover after sharing a bottle of wine with dh---I've been on a cleanse for weeks so that could have been a bad idea)--anyway, i'm up a pound this morning!
    so even the sprouted Ezekiel doesn't work for me, darn it.
    I couldn't tell if it made me feel worse either, as I was already feeling lousy.

    you know, when I was a kid I had no idea that i'd have to become a detective about my own body!


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  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by suz View Post
    I've had the blood work a couple of times and am not suffering from celiac disease accordingly.
    however, the symptoms SUCK--bloating, constipation, itchy,red skin, and hard abdomen fat--six months preggers looking fat!
    and yet when I needed an upper endoscopy the tech doing the test exclaimed at the amount of damage she saw inside me.
    so no wheat or gluten and I feel so much better, abdomen fat and weight is steadily decreasing, so that's enough evidence for me.

    otoh, I recently read that Ezekiel sprouted breads can be ok for some, as the gluten protein is destroyed when sprouted. yesterday I tried a couple of pieces because I felt pretty queasy all day (suspect an old fashioned hangover after sharing a bottle of wine with dh---I've been on a cleanse for weeks so that could have been a bad idea)--anyway, i'm up a pound this morning!
    so even the sprouted Ezekiel doesn't work for me, darn it.
    I couldn't tell if it made me feel worse either, as I was already feeling lousy.

    you know, when I was a kid I had no idea that i'd have to become a detective about my own body!
    Yeah I tried that as well. Not good. I just am not doing any of the wheat.
    How long before you saw The abdominal fat decreasing Suz?
    I swear it has got to be the answer, because when I was religious at the gym, I got fit, and muscles but the belly was still there.
    I am hoping between this and the working out that I may get rid of it once and for all.
    Last edited by Sannois; Apr. 20, 2013 at 09:15 AM. Reason: Spelling
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  9. #349
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    That is interesting - I have never heard of gluten free products that contain wheat (but not gluten). The ones that I tried were potato, rice or almond flour based.

    These days, for the most part, I simply avoid them all (with the exception of the occasional GF sandwich bread for long days out in the field). It is easy enough to do. I don't really strive specifically to follow the Paleo diet, but I find that my diet resembles it more and more as I focus on eating food that make me feel well and energized.


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  10. #350
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    Something very interesting I discovered tonight while preparing dinner.
    Yummy Salmon. My mouth was actually watering. I have not experienced that in some time. The Whole 30 book says your body will start to act like it is supposed to. )
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #351
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  12. #352
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    Default Since Obesity thread featured Paleo

    Within the Obesity thread is a lot of Paleo talk. Could we resurrect this thread?

    What can a Paleo virgin expect when beginning? HOW does one begin? Any free reading resources?

    I know I'm addicted to carbs and sugar. I know I have a food addiction. Will Paleo be the way out? Does it have to be all fresh foods? It sounds labor intensive and expensive but to be free of cravings, head aches, and spikes would be life-altering!

    One doc suggested my ancestry may mean I metabolize sugar and simple starches into a high. He suggested I add a protein like a cheese stick after carb overloading to slow down the sugar spike. Thoughts?



  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bicoastal View Post
    Within the Obesity thread is a lot of Paleo talk. Could we resurrect this thread?

    What can a Paleo virgin expect when beginning? HOW does one begin? Any free reading resources?

    I know I'm addicted to carbs and sugar. I know I have a food addiction. Will Paleo be the way out? Does it have to be all fresh foods? It sounds labor intensive and expensive but to be free of cravings, head aches, and spikes would be life-altering!

    One doc suggested my ancestry may mean I metabolize sugar and simple starches into a high. He suggested I add a protein like a cheese stick after carb overloading to slow down the sugar spike. Thoughts?
    Get ye to the library. Paleo is relatively new, but yours might carry some books. (mine had one I believe, but it's a small town)

    links from the first hundred pages:
    http://ultimatepaleoguide.com/5-pale...kfast-recipes/
    http://paleomg.com/
    http://whole9life.com/

    You can start by cutting sugar.

    I am not even on the Paleo diet (yes, I know I started it...)
    But as I have taken some steps to get healthier I hardly eat anything sweet anymore.
    I start my day off with a banana or an apple. That satisfies my sweet cravings, and has the benefit that it's not bad, empty food. I bough a couple of kitkat bars the other day, I almost felt sick eating half of one.

    Fresh food is best for you, no two ways about it.
    You can subsitute frozen for fresh for many things, but don't expect them to turn out exactly right.

    The Point is really that you need to pay more attention to what you eat.
    Treat eating with as much respect and importance as you treat your job or your spouse. It's what fuels your body and keeps you healthy!

    Get rid of plain white bread.
    if you don't kick any other grain habits. But the common American sandwich bread is really REALLY not good for you.
    In the milling process all the important parts are sifted out. Besides, the spongy mess does not really fill you up.

    The hardcore Paleo Peeps say go cold turkey - but seriously, non would change their pets' eating habits like that....cut the worst offenders out of your life.
    And you will be amazed how much better you start to feel right off the bat!

    Keep a food log. write down EVERYTHING you eat and drink, and how much. Even breath mints. I am sure when you do that for a couple of weeks you will realize were you thoughtlessly something you wished later you hadn't.

    And don't allow yourself to get starved! Bad place to be in, be it in front of the fridge or in the store.

    Just get started. Enjoy one more of your favorite cookies (or whatever) Then kick the habit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sannois View Post
    Bumping this up cause I want to find the rest of the Paleo wheat loss group.
    If you want to continue a support group, I have a bulletin board which is un used and we can chat and support and share without waiting for another Off topic day. Message me if you want the link, Or I will post it a bit later.
    I do! I just read the first 5 pages then skipped to read every 3rd page of this 18pg thread. I had no idea beans were bad. Why? I'm browsing PaelOMG, Nom Nom Paleo, LowCarbFriends, and RobbWolf sites.



  15. #355
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    Ok so start by kicking out the worst offenders- bread, pasta & sugar? Is that right? On PaelOMG there is a 4th of July recipe for pasta salad. Confusing!

    Robb Wolf's meal plan:
    4-8 oz of lean protein such as chicken, lean beef, turkey, pork loin or seafood.
    Then add several servings of multicolored vegetables, either raw, steamed or lightly cooked.
    Finally, round out the meal with good fats from Avocado, olive oil or a handful of un-salted nuts such as almonds, pecans, macadamias or walnuts.


    Sounds manageable if I had money. This week, due to finances, I'm eating cereal & yogurt for breakfast, tuna fish sandwiches for lunch, crackers for a snack, cereal for dinner. Paleo says all of that is bad! (I don't buy the whole 'eat like your ancestors' I do buy some foods are inflammatory and I'm addicted to carbs & sugars.)

    So what is a Paleo's out-the-door-now breakfast? Or does Paleo mean you gotta cook more?



  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bicoastal View Post
    Ok so start by kicking out the worst offenders- bread, pasta & sugar? Is that right? On PaelOMG there is a 4th of July recipe for pasta salad. Confusing!

    Robb Wolf's meal plan:
    4-8 oz of lean protein such as chicken, lean beef, turkey, pork loin or seafood.
    Then add several servings of multicolored vegetables, either raw, steamed or lightly cooked.
    Finally, round out the meal with good fats from Avocado, olive oil or a handful of un-salted nuts such as almonds, pecans, macadamias or walnuts.


    Sounds manageable if I had money. This week, due to finances, I'm eating cereal & yogurt for breakfast, tuna fish sandwiches for lunch, crackers for a snack, cereal for dinner. Paleo says all of that is bad! (I don't buy the whole 'eat like your ancestors' I do buy some foods are inflammatory and I'm addicted to carbs & sugars.)

    So what is a Paleo's out-the-door-now breakfast? Or does Paleo mean you gotta cook more?
    You can also check out marksdailyapple.com which is along the same lines.

    Some people (myself included) can get by in the morning with a coffee with cream (I use 18%) or coffee with coconut oil. Otherwise I'm a bacon/eggs/spinach kind of girl.

    Quality food is a bit more expensive but will take you further nutritionally.

    There are a lot of videos on youtube if you search ancestral health or paleo. You can listen to the speakers while you're cooking dinner.
    Jigga:
    Why must you chastise my brilliant idea with facts and logic? **picks up toys (and wine) and goes home**



  17. #357
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    So, I'm not a full Paleo person, but I try to subscribe to a lot of the principles about eating real food. Breakfast is my hardest meal to do that with. I cannot stand the smell of cooking eggs in the morning. If someone else cooks them, it's fine.

    So some breakfast options - a hard-boiled egg or two, plus some fruit. I cook a bunch of eggs on the weekend and have them in the fridge. I know that fruit is eschewed by some Paleo people, but I still believe it's better than cereal or a bagel. Or some yogurts which are loaded with junk.

    I also make a breakfast smoothie - banana, milk, protein powder and spinach. Again, not truly Paleo, but it gets me protein and nutrients to start my day.

    For lunch, keep the tuna, and replace the bread with lettuce. Maybe add some raw veggies and think of the tuna as a dip of sorts. A big bag of baby carrots go a long way.

    Swap the crackers for almonds as a snack. Even a natural, no sugar added peanut butter is probably better than crackers. Although, again, peanut butter is not really Paleo. Almond butter is, but it's also crazy expensive. You could save up and order almonds in bulk from Amazon and make your own but...yeah. I don't even do that and I think it sounds fun.

    If I were really in a pinch, I'd swap the cereal for old-fashioned oatmeal. I'm veering off Paleo there again, of course, but I understand trying to balance money with diet changes. I've grocery shopped knowing I had to keep to $30 or less because that was in the checking account. Many healthy body-builder types add oatmeal to their diet because it's filling and pretty clean compared to a lot of other foods.

    Paleo can be done without a ton of cooking, but for the lean proteins...you'll have to cook.


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  18. #358
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    I am sure someone can explain the carb addiction.

    Try whole grains over sifted and milled. And I don't mean whole as in whole oats we feed the horses.
    A lot of the carb loaded foods are loaded with simple carbs that are digested too quickly, sugar and short chained carbs.

    I would make my way through the stash in the pantry, but replace what I finished with better choices.
    Good, real food does not ahve to break the bank.
    Although I do have to ay, I don't think you can make pasta sauce for under a dollar....additives be damned!

    Step one: Don't panic! When I started this thread, I was too pooped to even consider going on a long shopping spree for healthy food. Did not have it in me! So I started with baby steps.

    Working on cutting the coffee intake, but DH has happily sabotaged that by buying a brand new, nice coffee maker when my 8buck model died the other day.

    But really do not overthink food:
    If you do you will be left with nothing but celery as 'good' food!
    You know, no grains, no fruit, no dairy, no meat

    You can make your own, good bread. If you have a bread machine, it's easy, but even in the oven it's easily enough done.

    I think I am talking in circles now.
    but real food does not have to be expensive. Get what' in season for starters. you can get some awesome deals on fresh vegetables at the farmers market or roadside stands! Cheaper than even Walmart!

    Also, Walmart has started to carry a larger selection of 'health food' items, for a fraction what the little granola shop in town asks. Limited selection, of course, but nice for the budget oriented.


    baby steps is fine. Wean yourself of the plain old refined sugar.
    However...if i have the choice between sugar and sweetener, sugar always wins, hands down. refined or not! I find all kinds of sweetener hideous, plus I think they don't agree with me.

    Many things we do eat are really just a bad habit, because it's handy when we gt hungry.
    Well, first, don't have them handy anymore, second, don't get starved! I second almonds as a quick snack (can be had now from Walmart in a small sack where the peanuts for snacking are, not for backing, raw, unroasted!)
    I like to have a bag of sugar peas on hand, they eat like candy to me! Even though they break the no-legume rule.

    after much blah blah:
    In essence, pay attention to what you eat. Even how you eat it!

    gosh, I am as clear as mud....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  19. #359
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    Here are the steps by which I did it:

    (1) Eliminate all sugars and processed foods with sugar, slowly over a couple of weeks. Tapering off helps prevent uncontrollable cravings. Above all, eliminate all sweet drinks, including "fruit" juice--even orange juice. It's concentrated sugar.

    (2) Eliminate all processed carbs like chips, cookies, pastries, French fries.

    (3) Elminate bread. Substitute salads w/protein element for sandwiches.

    (4) Substitute with whole-fat cheese, meat, chicken, fish, nuts, and tons of GREEN vegetables. Milk is OK if you can get it raw. Eggs are awesome. Use all the REAL butter and olive oil you want. Completely eliminate "vegetable" oils like corn, canola, soybean.

    (5) Don't be deceived by fruit. It's NOT synonymous with green vegetables. Modern, hybridized fruit has an enormous sugar content and a lot of it is fructose. Stick to things like blueberries and eat them with cream for dessert.

    (6) Watch your booze. Beer and wine are out, non-sweetened cocktails are in. Use as little whisky, vodka or rum as you can and do not use sweet mixers like tonic water (which, who knew? is as bad as soda! )

    (7) To go truly Paleo all the way, you need to source grass-fed meats, wild-caught fish, eat organ meats and a few lacto-fermented things. I'll admit to not always doing my due diligence on this part.

    If you follow these steps, you'll quickly find food disappearing as a bone of contention in your life. You'll eat for biological needs and find they're relatively small. The HARD part is bucking the cultural tide without becoming a social outcast; I like the "Mark's Daily Apple" philosophy of trying to be 80% "good" as the most realistic.

    To truly understand the science, read Good Calories, Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, or Nora Gegaudas' Primal Body--Primal Mind. To tie this in with the problems with modern health-care delivery, read Barry Groves' Trick & Treat.



  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bicoastal View Post
    Ok so start by kicking out the worst offenders- bread, pasta & sugar? Is that right? On PaelOMG there is a 4th of July recipe for pasta salad. Confusing!

    Robb Wolf's meal plan:
    4-8 oz of lean protein such as chicken, lean beef, turkey, pork loin or seafood.
    Then add several servings of multicolored vegetables, either raw, steamed or lightly cooked.
    Finally, round out the meal with good fats from Avocado, olive oil or a handful of un-salted nuts such as almonds, pecans, macadamias or walnuts.


    Sounds manageable if I had money. This week, due to finances, I'm eating cereal & yogurt for breakfast, tuna fish sandwiches for lunch, crackers for a snack, cereal for dinner. Paleo says all of that is bad! (I don't buy the whole 'eat like your ancestors' I do buy some foods are inflammatory and I'm addicted to carbs & sugars.)

    So what is a Paleo's out-the-door-now breakfast? Or does Paleo mean you gotta cook more?
    I don't eat "Paleo," (I find it far too restrictive and expensive for my tastes... I also hate diets/workout routines that make non-followers feel like bad people for not following), but "Paleo-friendly" breakfasts or snacks that are quick and portable:
    - hard-boiled eggs or smoothies, as KTRider said (you can actually pre-make smoothies and keep them in the fridge)
    - sweet potatoes!!! I nuke a bunch one evening and keep them in the fridge... I eat them cold, with almond butter or salsa, but you can also heat them up. 1 medium-sized potato makes a good snack on its own, or a meal if you pair it with other things.
    - egg "muffins" or mini-quiches -- basically, just make a quiche but portion it into a muffin tin. I do mine with spinach, tomatoes, ground meat (turkey, beef, or bison), and assorted veggies. They freeze really well and hold up pretty well (I... eat them in the car a lot). These are also nice because you can use up "everything in the fridge" -- leftover veggies and meats you may have. I make 'em crustless but I'm sure you could throw an almond-flour crust on there if you so desired.
    - I eat a metric ton of lox/smoked salmon every week, wrap it around apples or eggs, eat it alone, put it in omelettes, etc etc
    - I eat tuna mixed with avocado (instead of mayo) for any meal. It's actually really good!
    - An apple with almond butter and raisins
    - I'd echo the suggestions of oatmeal rather than cereal. Cereal never fills me up and actually makes me feel kind of sick. Oatmeal will stick to your ribs! You can make it the night before and stick it in the fridge too, or make baked oatmeal and then chop squares off.
    - Raw steaks, grab 'em on your way out and eat 'em while they're bloody

    Do what works for you.



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