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  1. #41
    gothedistance is offline AERC Decade Team - 2000-2010 Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Swapping "horse trailer" for "cyclist" isn't reasonable. Since when do cars and trailers, which have horizontal width, "wobble" when going slowly? Since when are trailers not made to fit on country roads? They are built just like every other normal vehicle out there - they HAVE to fit on the publicly maintained roads.

    Pull over? Where? A 5 mile stretch of 2 lane road with maybe another 2 lane road intersecting it, and no shoulder? Where do you suggest "we" pull over? Or perhaps we can slow to a gradual stop, pull "over" 6" on the "shoulder", let the 5 cars behind us pass, then slowly ramp back up to 45mph while pissing off the next 5 cars who have now piled up behind us?
    On narrow country roads your standard horse trailer tires will often ride right on the road boundry lines (if the road even has lines). They aren't built to a car or passenger truck width which is what a normal road width is designed to handle safely. Horse trailers are built to take up every.last.width.inch of a standard (urban shouldered) road width travel lane with only a tiny buffer of mere inches to keep within compliance - they are wider than your truck, and they don't necessarily follow the track of the truck when going anything other than a straight line. I've seen more than my share of horse trailers wobbling all over the freak'n road while pulled by a clueless driver. Scary.

    And yes, there have been *many* times on the back roads that I have pulled over to the far right and waved following traffic on when I (for whatever reason) want to go significantly slower than the posted speed limit. Yes, I do chose a place where there is good line of sight, and yes, the vehicles behind have to move into the opposing lane to pass, but I always get a "thank you" wave for being considerate. You don't have to pull off the road. You CAN stop on the road in your lane - simply put your flashers on and wave cars onward with your hand out the window.

    However, the real point of my prior post was to point out how the shoe fits on the other foot...or hoof.


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    The drivers that hit them were not driving that fast and said they could see the group, but missed the one cyclist out on the edge, in the middle of the road, the sun in their eyes.
    Exactly what happened around here a year or so ago. A woman was riding (by herself I think) along our roads, on a blind curve, too far in the middle of the road, and someone driving up behind her, going slowly because of both the sun and the road, hit her anyway because she simply didn't see her She was actually convicted of manslaughter.

    Was the driver just supposed to stop on the road?

    Cyclists have a huge responsibility to make sure they can be seen and make sure they are out of the way of most reasonable circumstances
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  3. #43
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    gothedistance - I do realize there are some back roads that are too narrow - built before there was a standard? I don't know. The legal road-legal width (barring special situations like moving houses, etc) is 8'6" iirc, a bit over 8', and I think 8' is the widest you can legally do a trailer.

    You can use any vehicle as an annoyance depending on the driver. Big Hummers are some of the worst, IME, since they are often "city folks" driving down country roads and too often sight-seeing. Can't see around the damned things. But granny in her little Nova who weaves back and forth driving 20mph under the speed limit is another risk - hard to figure out how to go around when you never know if she's going to cross the center line with you (and yes, I realize I'm stereotyping a bit ).

    Rules of the road are rules of the road, there are safety measures that need to be observed. Given the very small number of cyclists compared to vehicles, I would say that the % of rude cyclists is far greater than that of regular drivers, and I think that's the whole point of most of this discussion
    ______________________________
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  4. #44
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    I live in a very rural area, on a narrow, winding, hilly two lane road with no shoulder and a 55MPH speed limit.

    The local cyclists are not the problem....they are either pro riders, amateur racers, hobbyists that understand the hazards of riding on that road.
    The problem is tourist season. I hesitate to assume they are stupid people, but their actions certainly persuade me to think they are. Groups of them ride in the middle of the road on a blind curve or just over the crest of a hill...when the posted speed limit is 55.
    A local excavator wrecked his loaded dump truck when he came around a blind curve and there was a group of cyclists stopped in the middle of the road chatting. His choice was to plow in to them or run off the road, down the bank and roll his truck. He sued each one of them and won.

    The sense of entitlement is astounding with many of these people. We now have to lock all of our perimeter gates. The summer before last we came upon people riding their bikes on the back of our property three times. They had to come through a closed gate with NO TRESPASSING signs, one on either side of the gate and one on the gate itself. Each of them was shocked that it was not okay that they were on private property. I asked one of them how the would react if I came to their neighborhood, opened their yard gate and wandered through their yard. Their response was "Well, that's different".

    We too have a big bicycle race annually. There are articles in the paper, the road department puts signs out on the road to "Watch for Bicycles" several days in advance. The race whizzes by in moments on the appointed day. I have no problem with that.
    Kanoe Godby
    www.dyrkgodby.com
    See, I was raised by wolves and am really behind the 8-ball on diplomatic issue resolution.


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  5. #45
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    There is a huge problem around here with this as well. One of the most commonly used roads to get to the major horse show grounds is a narrow two lane with steep blind hills and no shoulders. It is a very popular route with cyclists due to it's proximity to the city and it's hills.

    When hauling to the vet on this road last year, I crested the hill to see a cyclist at the apex and an oncoming car. I had to hammer the brakes and my horse fell in the trailer (she was loose, box stall style back there since I had hauled a mare and foal the day before). It was awful and I was going under the speed limit. The cyclist seemed totally unconcerned that I had nearly taken him out. I do think on roads with no shoulders there should be limitatons on cyclists. This road also has very steep ditches so hitting the ditch with a trailer would be catastrophic.
    Since then I like to lean on the horn every time I pass a cyclist just to keep them awake.


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  6. #46
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    We have a VERY VERY large cycling group that rides out of Elon, NC - not too far down the road from us, our main road (a 2 lane country road that winds and twists and turns) is part of their standard 50+ mile ride they do - sometimes with 3-4 dozen riders, sometimes with on 20 or so.

    In good weather this road is shared by HUGE farm equipment as we are an agrarian area (soybeans, tobacco, wheat, etc.), stock trailers, horse trailers, school buses, etc. All us country folk tend to respect the PITA it is to have to move our farm equip, etc. so we are courteous and most times the biggest equip is pulled off the road to let cars, other smaller equip, trailers, etc. go by. The cyclists NEVER NEVER NEVER offer anything courteous.

    We were out the other day with a trailer load of hay - 100 bales - and came upon a group of about 8 or so cyclists. It took forever for them to even consider getting into a single file line. We could not safely pass them even then as there are numerous blind curves. The cyclist in the back kept motioning us to go around, he himself sort of weaving back into the middle of the road as he continued to yell at us...yes, yell at us...to pass. They passed several places (a really wide paved entrance to a side street and 2 church parking lots) where they could've pulled over but that wasn't an option I guess. We weren't able to pass them until we got to a main intersection and the red light stopped them. One of them was gesticulating wildly at us and yammering excited at the guy next to him. If this was the only run in we had with the cyclists, I certainly wouldn't paint them all with the same stroke of the brush. HOWEVER - our experience is generally just like this. The cyclists demand we share the road but it never occurs to them to do the same.

    The reality of all this though is that rude & tacky travels on 2 wheels AND 4.


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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by technopony View Post

    My problem with the cyclists in my area is that often, when there is a shoulder, the cyclist WILL NOT move off the lane and onto the shoulder, even when my HORSE TRAILER is bearing down on him/her and I clearly have no safe way to go around. So as a result, I'm stuck going 15 mph (or less as I wait for the cyclist to climb a steep hill) for extended periods of time. I find it very discourteous and also unsafe.
    Same here. There are NO shoulders on the roads in my town and the roads are narrow, windy and hilly. I have had to come to a complete stop while waiting for some idiot to huff and puff their way up a hill. I wouldn't dare try to pass because I don't want to get killed by an oncoming car around a blind curve. In this case it should be the rider's responsibility to get off the freakin' road!

    There are so many wonderful bike trails in this area and I don't understand why bikers want to ride somewhere so dangerous!


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  8. #48
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    I used to be a commuting cyclist and there were routes I just wasn't going to take, and that was back where there were shoulders. You have to understand that all the energy to move that bike comes from the rider and asking for a stop makes for more work and time lost you can never get back, not without extra effort, it isn't the same as pressing down on a pedal. Although we still are wired to think that all stops are equal, they actually aren't.

    I'd love to road ride the pony over to some friends' houses or even a long jaunt to my trainers but I don't want to HAVE to canter down the middle of the road in some spots around here - heck we had some sort of large truck get too close to the edge of the road and he just fell right off the side and down to the creekbank. We never saw the truck, they blocked off and detoured the road at the nearest cross street, but there was a largish pile of gravel down the embankment, near the gouges in the pavement. Around here you can still tell that roads were made by a horse pulling a cart, they haven't gotten an inch wider.

    It's not safe for anybody.
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  9. #49
    gothedistance is offline AERC Decade Team - 2000-2010 Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Rules of the road are rules of the road, there are safety measures that need to be observed. Given the very small number of cyclists compared to vehicles, I would say that the % of rude cyclists is far greater than that of regular drivers, and I think that's the whole point of most of this discussion
    I hear ya. But I consider rude behavior to be vastly different that someone simply legally riding on a road. I don't consider slow farm vehicles, slow county maintenance vehicles, big cumbersome commercial trucks, or cyclists to be rude just because they are using the road and don't feel they should be forced off the road or have to run into a ditch every few feet just because some motorist wants to "own" the road themselves.

    And the original point of the discussion is our poor OP hurrying to get home, and encountering a SMV (slow moving vehicle) in her path when she didn't expect it, and the hair raising avoidance tactic she had to make in order not to kill anyone, or herself. I think we all can relate to that. She wanted to know if she could have done anything different. How this morphed into cyclists who use the lane and won't "move over" for faster cars is merely a vent by some people who appear to be a bit more entitled than they have a right to be.

    You are absolutely right - the legal rules of the road are the legal rules of the road. And common courtesy by a motorist to a pedestrian, a biker, a motorcycle, an equestrian, a farm tractor driver, et al, by slowing down and giving wide berth is an individual thing very much appreciated by the passed person as is the reciprocal by the other to endeavor to give cars a safe venue in which to pass.

    I know from the cycling forums that most cyclists ride further in from the side of the road to make sure the cars 1. see them, and 2. will pass them in a safer manner. A motorist that has to swing into the oncoming lane is generally proven to instinctively slow down, and to pass wider and far more carefully than if they have to pass a person hugging the right line. A rider hugging tight to the right side line doesn't illicit the slow-down response in a motorist, and thus passing motorists will 99% of the time blast by without moving over to the left of their lane or give much thought to how close they are to the pedestrian/cyclist. The law says 3'. I can tell you from experience you don't get that from cars when you think you are being courteous by hugging the right side line. You DO get respect when you are out 2' or more from that line.

    It would be nice if we all learned from the OP's heart stopping event that you never know what's on the other side of the hill or blind curve...so slower and more careful is better than not.

    PS. I'm terrified of those tiny Nanas in their Buicks. Absoutely terrified. I back my car or truck waaaaay off and give them more road room than I would a fire truck with all the lights blazing.
    Last edited by gothedistance; Feb. 5, 2013 at 03:01 PM.


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  10. #50
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    I was thinking about this thread as I was driving around "our roads" today. Some comments were made here about driving slowly in spots with blind curves because you don't know what might be there.

    If that was done, most of many roads would be travelled at 35mph at best, and then you run the risk of someone going just the speed limit of 50-55 and doing just what you're trying to avoid - slamming into the "slow poke" he couldn't see .


    Its not just the blind curves either - its the little hills that go up and down quickly.several times I've come close to swiping a pedestrian who was walking inside the white line instead of the wide grassy shoulder, presumably to not get his shoes wet. And the *I* got the finger!
    ______________________________
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  11. #51
    gothedistance is offline AERC Decade Team - 2000-2010 Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    And the *I* got the finger!
    Not THAT's what I consider the definition of the word "rude"...unless you ran through a puddle when you passed there is no excuse for such a gesture!! And I have had that 50 mph splash happen to me while walking a road after a rain. Never flipped the bird to the offending motorist - I just sighed and chalked it up to teaching myself to be better situated - ie: NOT near a puddle - when traffic is bearing down on me.



  12. #52
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    Exactly lol. It goes back to the entitlement and "it's all about me" mentality.

    Add to the list - people who walk into a store then stop dead right inside while they figure out either where to go or if they're even in the right place, oblivious to almost having been run into by the person behind; the people who stop in the grocery store aisle with the cart right inthe middle while they slowly peruse box and can labels, in their own world; the folks who slowwwly walk 2 abreast down an aisle, oblivious to the pile up behind them.
    ______________________________
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime Time Rider View Post
    I must admit that I was tempted to turn the damn trailer and let them figure out that standing in the turn lane isn't a very bright idea when a horse trailer is trying to get by.

    I am sick and tired of their "we own the road" attitude.
    i would have let them learn the hard way (just a scare tactic, not to ACTUALLY run them over....), but I can be a jerk, and I grew up on -and now live on a very popular winding/hilly no shoulder back country road.....
    Last edited by HorseKrazy; Feb. 5, 2013 at 04:38 PM. Reason: Wanted to clarify that I'm not COMPLETELY evil, just a little bit



  14. #54
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    I have to say… having grown up on very windy roads / also a very active horse area (hills above Woodside CA):

    I pull over every given opportunity – I KNOW the road – and prepare to use each and every turn out to let vehicles pass. Not doing so would be RUDE – just as rude as the cyclist who take up the roads in packs. And I must go slow, as I need to be prepared for cyclist and other unexpected hazards around blind bends.

    The roads are SMALL – and yes, a horse trailer takes up the whole dam lane, and then some. Trailers are often forced to either cross over the center divider, or drop a wheel off of the pavement – in short, horse trailers are a hazard to the other motorist (luckily the trailer I use is just a two horse, but people haul up and down this road with huge rigs – honestly I think they should take the long route – and choose the wider highway that is available – but they don’t).

    Many who haul trailers over these roads ARE a hazard to the other road users. Can’t tell you how many times I have followed a slow moving trailer down the hill, cringing every time they drop wheels off into the ditches, and swerve wide onto incoming lanes.

    In short – the LOCALS can’t stand the cyclist – or the horse trailers on the highway, because both pose a hazard and are a hassle to follow.



  15. #55

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    Perhaps people should lobby their town councils to pass a bicyclist ordinance that limits the number of cyclists who can ride in a group without a permit. Our town did, and at least we no longer have to deal with packs of 30 or 40 bicyclists at a time.



  16. #56
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    I went to school and even college in a bicycle or mass transportation.
    Then, most of our highways had a special white line and still some highway feet for a bicycle path on both sides of highways.
    You were supposed to stay in those paths, one at the time.
    Bicycles had their own little license plate bolted to the back of it you had to renew every so often.

    There was no problem with cyclists and other traffic like we have here, where cyclists swarm down the highways, several abreast.



  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    When you encounter a deer hitting it to avoid a front end collision is socially acceptable. Hitting a bicyclist is not so socially acceptable.
    While it might not be socially acceptable, I'm sure a LOT of us have considered wishing we had a snow plow on and could 'plow' them off the road.

    I live on normal and busy 2 lane road-not back road and not particularly narrow BUT there are deep ditches and virtually no shoulders on most of it so there is no place to move over. For some reason a lot of cyclists use this road and most, unfortunately not all, cyclists are sensible. If riding 2 or more abreast, most will move to a single file when a car is coming up behind them. I always honk my horn to make sure they are aware. Every once in a while though a few idiots are on the road. One day I did my usual horn honking to let them know I was coming up behind them. One of the riders had the audacity to give me the finger when I was passing them. BIG MISTAKE!!! I passed and then pulled over, put on my blinkers, got out and gave the MFer a piece of my mind. I wish you could have seen his face when I pulled over and got out of the truck. He was as white as a sheet! Yes, he did manage to stammer out an apology. I rather doubt he pulled that stunt again.
    Sue
    Back in my day, we didn't have as many warning labels because people weren't so dang stupid!


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  18. #58
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    I'm seriously going to consider that next time msj! Especially when they stay 2+ abreast going up some of our steeper hills, because that means 5mph or so.

    Honestly, I think many of these guys simply don't even think about what they're doing, which is the biggest problem. Have some common sense. I can't believe the story of the cyclists who stopped and chatted *in the middle of the road!!!* and caused that wreck. How can adults NOT think that's such a really bad idea?
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by msj View Post
    While it might not be socially acceptable, I'm sure a LOT of us have considered wishing we had a snow plow on and could 'plow' them off the road.

    I live on normal and busy 2 lane road-not back road and not particularly narrow BUT there are deep ditches and virtually no shoulders on most of it so there is no place to move over. For some reason a lot of cyclists use this road and most, unfortunately not all, cyclists are sensible. If riding 2 or more abreast, most will move to a single file when a car is coming up behind them. I always honk my horn to make sure they are aware. Every once in a while though a few idiots are on the road. One day I did my usual horn honking to let them know I was coming up behind them. One of the riders had the audacity to give me the finger when I was passing them. BIG MISTAKE!!! I passed and then pulled over, put on my blinkers, got out and gave the MFer a piece of my mind. I wish you could have seen his face when I pulled over and got out of the truck. He was as white as a sheet! Yes, he did manage to stammer out an apology. I rather doubt he pulled that stunt again.
    You are my hero!
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  20. #60
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    Excellent, msj. I have this problem a LOT. And ah, the enraged cyclists, such as here, scream that they have right of way!!!! Well, you know what, I have right of way over EVEN THE CYCLISTS if I ride my horse in the road. But the road is narrow and dangerous and I take responsibility for my own life and safety so I DON'T RIDE MY HORSE ON THE ROAD.

    You can cite the law all day long, but it won't help you much when you are wrapped around my trailer fender because I had nowhere to go between the oncoming logging truck and the ditch. Physics and space don't really respond to puffed up chests.


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