The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 121
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,968

    Default

    Daydream I agree with everything you've said here. Jswan I agree with a lot of what you've said too!

    Bluey and G-I understand your perspective that you've presented here though I don't usually agree with it nor do I think it's all true.

    What I think is that everyone should have a choice. Don't like what you see at the farmers market, keep on driving and go to the grocery store. Don't like what you see wrapped in plastic and sitting in chicken blood at the grocery store? Go to the farmers market. Educate yourself in the safety and health and ramifications of any choice you make, especially if you're shopping for kids.

    I don't think it's right that the general population gets guided toward mass produced food by regulations and politics when it is not everyone's choice or decision. I think it is INSANE to depend on industrialized Food to survive. I don't sleep well at night if we don't have enough food to get by for months. The freezer has venison and vegetables and huckleberries, the milk goat is on the porch, the rabbits are in their hutches, the chickens are laying, we buy anasazi beans in Dove Creek AZ from the farm by the 20 lb. bag, soon the cows will calve and we'll be back in butter, cheese, milk, cream, yogurt and ice cream. We have a local apiary up the road that trades for eggs, we have a local meat processor, we really try to be as self-sufficient as possible but I still go to the grocery store and get my good olive oil and wine and coffee... I'm just not entirely dependent on it.

    I think people should have the choice on the milk (or anything else) and I think it should be easier for responsible people like say...ME to sell our milk to the people that want to buy it. I don't mind inspections, regulations, someone checking up on me-but the standards are industrial, nothing I can build in my home or barn. It's meant to pinch people like me out. If it was really that unsafe to go out and milk the cow and drink the milk at least one person I know would have already been sick from it. I know literally scores of people that drink fresh raw milk on a daily basis... for years, decades. Nobody is sick... I don't worry about the milk any more than I worry about unwashed fruit or vegies or mass produced hamburger from the grocery store.

    Choices, I think it's about making choices available for the people that do want to choose from small producers and local producers.

    And to clarify, I actually don't think raw milk is majikal stuff, it's just easier and ours is handled safely and properly. I'm not a "raw" milk fanatic, it's just how we have ours.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    30,962

    Default

    well, Bluey does explain very well to the est of the world who has never set foot into a barn why Old McDonald's business model does not fly in modern times.
    Most who live in urban areas have lost touch with where food comes from and have many times excess income to follow follies.

    Daydream and Swany also conribute important pieces t the puzzle.

    While alone, there might be holes in what they are saying, pulled together they petty much encompass what should be known by the consumer, from all angles, the mainstream market to avoid starvation, to the specialty market that DDB covers, to the red tape that supports or suppresses either.

    We would do well to listen to them.

    Swany for President, DDB can be vice, Bluey secretary od state!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  3. #83
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    That really makes no sense to me bluey. You are against regional food production because of famine or crop failures and I guess you are saying that would starve out those people? I'm not suggesting a return to the dark ages where no one ships anything. Of course if someone needs help elsewhere, they should get it from those who have extra to sell...what this does instead is reduces the need to move food all over the place from distant places as is done now further reducing our need to burn petroleum to do it. It also brings the food supply a lot closer to the people who will consume it and reduces our susceptibility to terrorism and famine.

    I would think spreading out food animal/plant production to all over the US would help prevent or minimize famine, disease, or drought effects...kind of like not putting all your eggs in one basket. It would seem to me that the drought last year would drive the point home well. Use corn for an example. Let's say that corn is only grown in the corn belt since that is the best place to grow it (for now) and shipped to others who need it. Along comes several years of drought, a new dust bowl, and no corn...thankfully there were places in the US that grew corn last year that got in a good crop or we'd have more than just high prices and shortages to contend with. It's called building resilience into the food supply. As G. pointed out earlier, our food supply is very limited right now to just in time deliveries and anything that might disrupt that and you've got a major problem.

    Another example is California where all the winter veggies are grown now. What happens if some insect infestation or plant disease or water shortage (since it's all brought in by irrigation there) affects that area? All of a sudden the folks in NY aren't going to get their no-so-fresh vegetables from California because no one else anywhere is producing it in sufficient quantities. Growing veggies under cold frames is not difficult nor a new technology nor does it take all that much room...it's easy and it's not that expensive.

    I do think there are too many people in the world also but that really is a another topic.
    Where do you get that I am against regional food production?

    There is and always has been local/regional food production.

    What we have done is supplement this with much more from other sources.
    Why are so many against that and putting regional/local production in a pedestal?

    To me, THAT is absurd.

    By the way, the USDA has many, many programs to help local producers.
    Go check with them, don't go by hearsay of how bad they are and only want big producers to thrive.



  4. #84
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,157

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, Bluey does explain very well to the est of the world who has never set foot into a barn why Old McDonald's business model does not fly in modern times.
    Most who live in urban areas have lost touch with where food comes from and have many times excess income to follow follies.

    Daydream and Swany also conribute important pieces t the puzzle.

    While alone, there might be holes in what they are saying, pulled together they petty much encompass what should be known by the consumer, from all angles, the mainstream market to avoid starvation, to the specialty market that DDB covers, to the red tape that supports or suppresses either.

    We would do well to listen to them.

    Swany for President, DDB can be vice, Bluey secretary od state!
    I voted already JSwan for president before, will vote for her again.

    As for any cabinet position for me, no way, I don't play well with others.



  5. #85
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2006
    Posts
    866

    Default

    I haven't read Folks This Aint Normal Yet, but will have to see if I can find it on the Kindle to borrow.

    I am glad you are of a tempered mindset. I just get frustrated because I think that we can't keep going either way in an extreme. An all organic situation or the way we mass produce food. Both are just skewed to a large degree.

    And good news folks--I did my part today and your beef supply is once again happy (here) at least for today re ECO157:H7--both the organics and the mass produced stuff.

    If only labeling and education were more accepted though...But how dare we propose someone actually have to THINK before DOING for once.

    FWIW--I did undergraduate research with antibiotic resistance of E coli & Salmonella in dairy calves fed medicated, probiotic, and regular calf milk replacer. Curiously, all had antibiotic resistant strains of E. coli & Salmonella. I don't know how/when this evolved over the time frame or any actual ramifications on them as adult cattle, but I thought this was very interesting. I wish I had the time/support/$ to see what other calf groups are like when some are being fed medicated milk replacer (as is normal in many dairies to help reduce scours/bacterial enteritis).

    I also have to say, I think it's cool that so many people are passionate and engaged in their community and are thinking multiple ways on this. Easier than just raw milk is evil or pasteurized milk is trying to keep the man down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Hey I have no beef with what you said about organic. My meat is not organic but it is raised by ME and handled by ME or my small custom slaughter plant who does a lovely job and that makes all the difference IMO. I also do not feed antibiotics at all to my poultry and have not had any occasion yet to give them to any other food animal although I will if someone actually gets sick...it's the prophylatic use that creates the antibiotic resistant bugs that I am concerned about. Animals do tend to stay healthy on their own if you keep them uncrowded and outside living in as natural a way as possible.

    I agree that the mess is of our own creation. Have you read the book "Folks This Ain't Normal" by Joel Salatin. I know...he's an activist and anti big establishment but he's got some very interesting points and makes some great suggestions on how to fix the mess we have now. I love this book and his points on how screwed up things really are today from "historical normal" and how so much of that ties back into some of the major problems we face.

    It is not normal nor healthy for people to eat foods with antibiotic resistant superbugs on them nor to have to even have to worry about it. Nor is it normal to have utterly sterile food. There needs to be a balance obviously.

    I still support that this is a free country and people should have the right to consume the foods of their choice. If labeling and education are necessary than so be it. I'm fine with that.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    And yet it is! I'd love for you to tell all those small town New Yorkers and people in other states that their farms don't exist. That'd be rich.
    I didn't say they didn't exist. I said they don's exist in sufficient numbers and can't feed 30 million people with fresh, locally grown food in January. Especially not from upstate NY (where the major Jan. crop is show ).

    Unless, of course, Global Warming really ramps up!

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    30,962

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    I didn't say they didn't exist. I said they don's exist in sufficient numbers and can't feed 30 million people with fresh, locally grown food in January. Especially not from upstate NY (where the major Jan. crop is show ).

    Unless, of course, Global Warming really ramps up!

    G.
    I seriously doubt you could feed NYC with locally produced food any time of year....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #88
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    "Local" is food produced within 400 miles of where it is consumed.

    Obviously in most parts of the country this means that you will not get fresh strawberries in January.

    Except no one is claiming that you shall. But there is no reason a farmer near Washington DC is forced to sell his cattle at auction - when he could have it cut and packaged and eaten in Washington DC and keep the profit. What prevents him from doing so is the fact that over 80% of the nations cattle are processed at 4 plants. If he has no USDA inspected facility near him - he is forced to sell at auction. He has no choice.

    A slaughter house in D.C.? Do I understand that's a real suggestion? Have you been to D.C. lately???? Or the near in suburbs? I suspect that you have. I suspect that you're trying to make a point. I suspect that you haven't done so.

    A local food system is not designed or intended to supplant the system that exists. The system is intended to keep farmland in production instead of being destroyed by sprawl and poor planning. It's also intended to provide people in the region with as much safe, inspected food as possible.

    I lived in Silver Spring, MD from '84-'90. I remember a "Post" story about the last dairy farmer in Fairfax Co. He had 150A (more or less) and milked about 200 cows. He had turned down more than $20 Million for his acreage (according to the story). He was sitting on a "gold mine" and he knew it. He also knew his time was limited because the only reason his milk was being picked up was that he had a contract with a processor. When that contract ran out, then what? I wonder if it's still there? The point: economics made dairy farming in Fairfax County uneconomical. Remember that one man's "urban sprawl" is another's "economic opportunity."

    A regional study of farmland was performed near me - the results were nothing short of appalling. Only .4% of cash receipts from farms were from sales to people who lived in that region. The region was losing 1.4 billion dollars in revenue - annually - because the output from farms was leaving the region.

    In other words - others were profiting heavily from the labors of those farmers. The region was not even feeding its own residents.

    Sharpen your point, here, for me. What was being produced and where was it going? Were the farmers being forced to sell at low prices to outsiders against their will? What mechanism was used to do this? Draw me a "money trail" so I can see just why this larceny on a grand scale was possible.

    This is a poor region of the state. Very poor. It wouldn't be as poor if that 1.4 billion dollars stayed in the region.

    This is a rural economic issue. A big one. We need more farms, and we need more farmers. We also need that infrastructure - and frankly the same issues affect the horse industry. We used to have 6 auctions in my county. 6. Now we're down to one. And that one no longer auctions horses. It's a loss to the ag community as well as the horse industry. We have growing ethnic population in this region. And they they have difficulty obtaining halal products. One consumer told me he's getting his halal products from New Zealand. Why? Because we do not have the ability to provide him with the products he requires. If we restore that infrastructure - he and others like him would buy their products from OUR farmers.

    Perhaps these things are not true where you live. it's a big country. But where I live - there are organized efforts to restore that infrastructure and they are well supported.
    Well supported and yet the losses continue? What do we do? Subsidize local farm production? I mean more than we already do? If the market won't reward these people for their efforts why should we try and create some sort of "extra-market" mechanism that will? And, again, tell me how this is going to work during the 3-6 months (even in the area around D.C.) where production on a large scale of crops is impossible due to weather!!!!!

    The hard truth is that we are an urban country. Few of the city slickers know or care about rural issues. We, in their eyes, are a bunch rubes. "Country mice" that don't have the good sense to knock the shit off our shoes and live the life of the Manhattan (or Georgetown) sophisticate. Or, more correctly, pseudo-sophisticate.

    I'm a believer in evolution. In all its myriad forms. The ag. system we have today is not the "quarter section family farm." That has not been the reality since probably shortly after WWI. Indeed the Great Depression actually begins in the early '20s with the slow implosion of agricultural prosperity due to overproduction, a byproduct of WWI. By the time the Market tanked in '29 banks had been on the ropes for years due to farm foreclosures. When Big Government rewrote the rules during the New Deal they thought they were preserving family agriculture but they weren't. WWII put the last nails in that coffin. Now we live in the world of industrial agriculture. That has permitted 10% to feed 90%. That has permitted us to become the wealthiest society to ever grace the face of the Earth. Is that "wrong?" I express no opinion on that. But it is what it is. All the reminiscing about "family farms" and such is just nostalgia. Nostalgia makes a lousy base for public policy.

    But, hey, public policy on both sides of the aisle nowadays seems to be based upon myth and legend than reality.

    Or, put another way, the thought that "I reject your reality and substitute my own" is funny when Adam Savage says it; it's less so when it comes from highly placed public officials.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    30,962

    Default

    It's called infrastructure.

    It's like shoring up the foundation of the house over putting in granite counter tops.

    Fixing the sewage system in town before planting flowering pear trees...

    Currently the system does not support the small outfit.
    The regulations are stifling, ways to adhere to them are few and far between.

    The urban population does not see nor understand the issue, chances they Ok funds to fix it are nill to nothing - like the need to overhaul the ugly things under ground...


    And there, i thought that a dystopian country vs city scenario was far fetched...we might yet see it....
    Last edited by Alagirl; Feb. 3, 2013 at 10:49 PM. Reason: shpelling
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  10. #90
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2007
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    4,968

    Default

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuzhwkaNC40

    with a nod to the Superbowl commercial for Dodge trucks...

    G your world seems small and sad... I am very glad that I live in a different world than you do. I do still know small time farmers and ranchers and I am still desperately trying to keep them going because I think they hold more intrinsic value than any industrialized machine that makes Food.



  11. #91
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,415

    Default

    Not a plant in DC, Guilherme. The rural counties near there are restoring infrastructure.

    You simply do not know what you are talking about. Sorry. You don't. Perhaps you should just enjoy your retirement and leave rural planning to people who know what they're doing. I don't deal in myths and legends, and I'm no idealist who thinks cows frolic in green pastures and then leap onto our dinner plates. And I certainly don't think food comes from the grocery store.

    This is business. A healthy rural economy. You're not a part of that planning process in my region, and I am. You say it cannot be done, and yet people are doing it. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way but you don't get to decide how profitable a farmer is permitted to be.
    Last edited by JSwan; Feb. 3, 2013 at 10:26 PM.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Guilherme...JSwan lives near Wash DC and is involved in policy making decisions for her area. She's a real mover and shaker and not just playing one on the internet. She also raises delicious grass fed beef...I know...I bought half a beef from her a few years ago. She's also been a mentor to help me in my start up business.

    As for subsidizing local farms...I've never heard of that. I'm sure there are some gov't programs as Bluey pointed out but I don't know anyone in my circle of farmer acquaintances...and I know quite a few after 3 years of multiple farmer's markets.... who receives any gov't subsidies. If you research that topic, you'll see the vast majority of the gov't money goes to row crop growers and corporations...thus the term "corporate welfare."

    You and I differ in our visions. I see a country trying hard to get back to it's rural roots. I meet these city slickers all the time and have had many come to my farm and pick up a chick or pet a horse or gather eggs. People want to reconnect to the land and to the farmer. We can try to limit their access or we can facilitate it and each action will have a very different effect. I believe we are not going to have a choice..we must reconnect at some point either willingly or under duress. I think the sooner we do it the better for people and the better for farmers. Just my opinion..we all have one.

    Bluey I wasn't accusing you of being against regional food but I simply did not understand your rationale for why it is a bad idea to further develop those systems. Sorry if I misunderstood you point and I'm listening if you want to try to explain it again.

    Cowboymom...were we separated at birth? Long lost sisters. I love your posts and you and I think much a like. I also can, preserve, and raise most of my food now. I love it...not going back if I can help it!

    You are 100% correct in your assessment that the regulations are not about food safety but about limiting market access. Read Joel's book...the one I mentioned earlier...and he really builds a very strong case on that point.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,157

    Default

    Maybe this can explain some of what we are discussing better:

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/201...rs-farm-runoff

    ---Of course, there are always trade-offs to be made. Organic products cost more to put on the shelves because they generally require more cultivation by hand, which in turn drives up labor costs that invariably are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices. Conversely, conventionally grown crops produced on an industrial scale have created a reliable, affordable food supply that proportionately has left fewer hungry people in America than virtually anywhere else in the world. Given the booming global population, there's obviously a balance to be struck between industrial and small-scale farming."---

    A balance of production methods.
    The USDA has many programs for starting farmers, all sizes.
    Don't take my word for it, I have told you this before, go check it out yourself.
    I know, I am part of our local office and get their regular releases all the time.
    Our taxes at work, insulting to call what they do "corporate welfare".



  14. #94
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    I haven't read Folks This Aint Normal Yet, but will have to see if I can find it on the Kindle to borrow.

    I am glad you are of a tempered mindset. I just get frustrated because I think that we can't keep going either way in an extreme. An all organic situation or the way we mass produce food. Both are just skewed to a large degree.
    I agree completely...somewhere in the middle is the answer. We simply have to work to find it. I hope you like the book. He gets a bit preachy at times but he makes some astute points and he's got a good sense of humor. I certainly don't agree with all his points either (as someone mentioned earlier) but his perspective is interesting and his ideas make you think.

    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    If only labeling and education were more accepted though...But how dare we propose someone actually have to THINK before DOING for once.
    Not to mention proposing that people take responsibility for their actions and choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    FWIW--I did undergraduate research with antibiotic resistance of E coli & Salmonella in dairy calves fed medicated, probiotic, and regular calf milk replacer. Curiously, all had antibiotic resistant strains of E. coli & Salmonella. I don't know how/when this evolved over the time frame or any actual ramifications on them as adult cattle, but I thought this was very interesting. I wish I had the time/support/$ to see what other calf groups are like when some are being fed medicated milk replacer (as is normal in many dairies to help reduce scours/bacterial enteritis).
    That is interesting. Could it have been environmental contamination? Perhaps the people caring for the calves were contaminating the non medicated calves by hygiene or even just that they themselves were contaminated?


    Quote Originally Posted by starrunner View Post
    I also have to say, I think it's cool that so many people are passionate and engaged in their community and are thinking multiple ways on this. Easier than just raw milk is evil or pasteurized milk is trying to keep the man down.
    I agree!



  15. #95
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,261

    Default

    Reading this thread has been very enlightening, and makes me grateful that I live in a state and place where I have tested raw milk available, custom meat packing available and the contacts to know where to acquire what I consider healthy local food. I guess I didn't really even realize others didn't have the same resources available to them.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Posts
    22,415

    Default

    I don't know why folks are getting hung up on "organic". It's not as if every farmer engaging in direct sales is certified organic. Every operation is different; many of the farmers with field crops - commodity crops - are just expanding their existing operation to take advantage of opportunities in direct sales of certain products. They're just diversifying. (in my region)

    I buy my feeders from a friend who also sells directly to Whole Foods. Safe, inspected meat from a farmer hundreds of miles closer to the consumer. The farmer makes more money, and the consumer gets a safe product.

    I fail to see what's wrong with that. The key is to provide an inspected, legal product to the consumer. From a planning perspective, a goal is to ensure there is a healthy, diverse rural economy that is responsive to the needs of the residents and business owners.
    Brothers and sisters, I bid you beware
    Of giving your heart to a dog to tear.
    -Rudyard Kipling


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Mar. 25, 2010
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Simkie View Post
    Reading this thread has been very enlightening, and makes me grateful that I live in a state and place where I have tested raw milk available, custom meat packing available and the contacts to know where to acquire what I consider healthy local food. I guess I didn't really even realize others didn't have the same resources available to them.
    Me, too. I can buy raw milk (cow or goat) off the shelf in the local co-op and have a choice of CSAs for local veggies, and many people raise grassfed beef locally. I'm thankful to have these choices.



  18. #98
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
    Original Poster
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    40,157

    Default

    Create a market demand and someone will try to fill it.
    Organic, natural, grass fed, raw, whatever consumers want, that someone will find a way to sell them.

    Here we have one special market, ethnic market, mostly from South of the border, that has their own produce demands, different kinds of produce stores and butcher shops.
    Some of that is above board, some is kind of black market.

    There are all kinds of niche markets out there, but as that article explained, a balance has to be found so there is enough for everyone and that will take all kinds of production methods, the more general ones that work on volume and the niche ones for specialty markets.



  19. #99
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    30,962

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Create a market demand and someone will try to fill it.
    Organic, natural, grass fed, raw, whatever consumers want, that someone will find a way to sell them.

    Here we have one special market, ethnic market, mostly from South of the border, that has their own produce demands, different kinds of produce stores and butcher shops.
    Some of that is above board, some is kind of black market.

    There are all kinds of niche markets out there, but as that article explained, a balance has to be found so there is enough for everyone and that will take all kinds of production methods.
    Indeed.

    however, the niche market is less likely to be filled from the place 200 miles away from the nearest settlement.

    Although, it has become common place to ship these things around the world, which somewhat defeats the purpose, no?

    It's like this:
    You live in the middle of nowhere, you likely won't have a successful lesson program, because there are only a few people who will be your student.

    On the same token, trying to become the next huge breeding success when you only have a small farmette in the clutches of urban sprawl is equally redundant.

    The problem is that we need more ways to get the choices to be practical.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  20. #100
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,525

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JSwan View Post
    Not a plant in DC, Guilherme. The rural counties near there are restoring infrastructure.

    You simply do not know what you are talking about. Sorry. You don't. Perhaps you should just enjoy your retirement and leave rural planning to people who know what they're doing. I don't deal in myths and legends, and I'm no idealist who thinks cows frolic in green pastures and then leap onto our dinner plates. And I certainly don't think food comes from the grocery store.

    This is business. A healthy rural economy. You're not a part of that planning process in my region, and I am. You say it cannot be done, and yet people are doing it. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way but you don't get to decide how profitable a farmer is permitted to be.
    Gee, us retired folk should just confine ourselves to our rocking chairs? How utterly generous of you.

    You stated that "But there is no reason a farmer near Washington DC is forced to sell his cattle at auction - when he could have it cut and packaged and eaten in Washington DC (emphasis provided) and keep the profit." I may be retired, but I can still read.

    You say you've made progress? How many local slaughter plants have you seen established (in D.C. or anywhere else)? That would be a practical measure of progress that even us small, sad folks could recognize.

    You commented on a vast flow of wealth out of your region. I asked you specifically about that. You didn't answer. Tell us about your progress in addressing this flow. Be specific, here.

    If you become specific and responsive you won't have to engage in ad hominem, hey? By the way, this is directed at the other anti-ageist zealots, too.

    Do you believe in evolution? If so then to understand what you have now you have to understand what went before. Few folks here are more interested in history than I am. I know what went before and how it lead to what we have now. The proposals to "re-create infrastructure" are attempts to turn back the clock. Sometimes that's a good idea, but sometimes it's not.

    And yes, as a "small farmer" I get a subsidy. In TN if you're "green belt" (agricultural or forest) you get about a 50% reduction in property taxes. I understand that this is common in many states. I don't know about VA, but I'd bet that there are benefits in the tax system for "farmers."

    And still no one has explained to me how you're going to feed 30-40 million people even with the "enhanced infrastructure." No one has explained you they're going to overcome meteorology, zoning rules, PETA, HSUS, breathless TV news coverage of how animals are slaughtered, the real estate industry, and the various Laws of Supply and Demand.

    If you build it they might come, but they might still all go to Walmart.

    That's the view from my sad, little world.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



Similar Threads

  1. More treat warnings (aka China)
    By vtdobes in forum The Menagerie
    Replies: 33
    Last Post: May. 3, 2012, 05:37 PM
  2. Relying on milk testing.. when there's no milk to test??
    By ASBJumper in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Apr. 13, 2011, 03:26 PM
  3. For all the milk testers, Milk coming in REALLY early?
    By Frogs Leap in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Jun. 21, 2010, 01:06 PM
  4. Replies: 23
    Last Post: May. 2, 2010, 09:55 AM
  5. firm udder, but no milk? Also mother nature's milk testing kit?
    By pal-o-mino in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Apr. 16, 2010, 04:06 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •