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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2011
    Posts
    376

    Default Reiner Andrea Fappani trying to put a MotoCross track in my Neighborhood!

    My neighborhood in far northeast Scottsdale, Arizona is a quiet, secluded magnet for equestrians and we have several world-class Western breed and performance centers here. Imagine my horror when I learned that Andrea Fappani has requested a special use permit to put in a motocross track for dirt bikes on 20 acres here!

    When I saw the signage for his project, I was pleased to have him coming here. Even though I'm not involved in the Quarter Horse world, he is a big name. His current facility is nearby, and we locals thought he was just moving operations.

    Apparently, he's going to stay put where he is but wants to build a motocross track, and possibly a house and an RV garage. This is a gorgeous 20 care parcel on which he enjoys AGRICULTURAL ZONING--meaning he pays less in taxes than those of us who actually keep horses on our land.

    We put up with dirt roads here because we have peace, quiet, and easy access to fabulous trail riding in the Tonto National Forest. We live through draconian zoning regs that make it hard to even erect a shade for our horses. Now we have a so-called horseman who wants to cheat on his taxes and ruin the peace and air quality with screaming dirt bikes that are most likely going to leave the 20 acres and tear through our roads and private land, doing untold damage.

    If any of you COTHers know this man, his family, his assistant trainers, or his clients, please speak up. This is so outrageous! He is claiming there was an existing track on the property, and is grandfathered. According to property owners adjacent to the subject parcel, this is not true. Aerial views do not show any track, at least before his graders went in and scraped everything out, and local horseback riders have used the parcel for years without ever seeing any signs of a motocross track.

    I don't like to see a person who can do this to his own neighborhood go uncensured. It's not something a true horseman would do. I was told he said the neighbor's horses would just have to get used to the dirtbikes. Nice, huh?


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    35,120

    Default

    Sorry, I do not see a MotoCross Track as inconsistent with equestrian activities.

    What makes you think the bikes are any more likely to "to leave the 20 acres and tear through our roads and private land, doing untold damage" than horses?

    My neighbors have an informal motocross track right next to my pasture and it doesn't bother me. The horses got used to it pretty quickly.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


    8 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 4, 2012
    Location
    Southeast US
    Posts
    1,173

    Default

    There is a motocross track a few miles from my house. It hasn't "ruined" the area at all. As far as I can tell, the riders confine themselves mostly to riding on the actual track and I don't think I've ever seen any of them riding off the property.

    And I'd be all for my horses getting used to the dirtbikes. In fact, before I take my young horse out to the local state park to trail ride for the first time, I plan to borrow a friend's ATV and ride it around my pasture until the horses learn to ignore it.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    5,115

    Default

    My old boarding barn had a motocross track for their teen son that rode competitively.

    My hubby rides dirt bikes, and mountain bikes – just like horses, they are feeling the pressures of land loss and development – and have to fight hard to keep, and make places to ride.

    Sounds like this is on private land – personally, I wouldn’t have a problem with a track going in – would you rather a housing development and all of the traffic and resource use that would entail?


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    NIMBYs are some of the most despicable people on earth. Such a sense of entitlement that they think they have the right to control what others do on their property based on some nebulous concept of "harm".


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    OBTW, it is not just YOUR neighborhood. He lives there so I guess that makes it HIS too.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2010
    Location
    S. Calif.
    Posts
    721

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagstaff Foxhunter
    My neighborhood in far northeast Scottsdale, Arizona is a quiet, secluded magnet for equestrians and we have several world-class Western breed and performance centers here. Imagine my horror when I learned that Andrea Fappani has requested a special use permit to put in a motocross track for dirt bikes on 20 acres here!

    When I saw the signage for his project, I was pleased to have him coming here. Even though I'm not involved in the Quarter Horse world, he is a big name. His current facility is nearby, and we locals thought he was just moving operations.

    Apparently, he's going to stay put where he is but wants to build a motocross track, and possibly a house and an RV garage. This is a gorgeous 20 care parcel on which he enjoys AGRICULTURAL ZONING--meaning he pays less in taxes than those of us who actually keep horses on our land.

    We put up with dirt roads here because we have peace, quiet, and easy access to fabulous trail riding in the Tonto National Forest. We live through draconian zoning regs that make it hard to even erect a shade for our horses. Now we have a so-called horseman who wants to cheat on his taxes and ruin the peace and air quality with screaming dirt bikes that are most likely going to leave the 20 acres and tear through our roads and private land, doing untold damage.

    If any of you COTHers know this man, his family, his assistant trainers, or his clients, please speak up. This is so outrageous! He is claiming there was an existing track on the property, and is grandfathered. According to property owners adjacent to the subject parcel, this is not true. Aerial views do not show any track, at least before his graders went in and scraped everything out, and local horseback riders have used the parcel for years without ever seeing any signs of a motocross track.

    I don't like to see a person who can do this to his own neighborhood go uncensured. It's not something a true horseman would do. I was told he said the neighbor's horses would just have to get used to the dirtbikes. Nice, huh?
    .


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Cairo, Georgia
    Posts
    2,429

    Default

    Well I for one feel for you. I live in Cairo, GA which was getting very famous for having practice tracks for motorcross including Ricky Carmichael who was #1 rider in the world. These tracks are SO LOUD you can't hear yourself think. They have ruined the serene, quiet, country life that so many people moved out here for. This county has had many lawsuits filed over these tracks. Now while the older ones are grandfathered in, the newer ones have to have at least 1 mile of land OF THEIRS on each side of the outer edge of their tracks or they cannot build them. While this might seem extreme, trust me, there's nothing so annoying as listening to what sounds like duelling chainsaws every day & one mile only dampens the sound somewhat.
    One of the worst things about this is that anyone who would build a track near a quiet neighborhood is normally not the type of person you can reason with. They didn't give a damn about encroaching on your personal air space in the first place & so probably don't really care about your loss of peace & quiet.
    In the counties surrounding the area where I live we have acres & acres of open land with NO HOMES & NO PEOPLE but the motorcross folks didn't choose these areas. They choose the populated areas. One track actually put up lights & raced past midnight all weekend. Their neighbors are people who had put all their savings into a small boarding barn & tack shop. They lost it practically overnight. Their land is not worth anything because they cannot give it away next door to this track. They were there before the track. That is just plain wrong anyway you look at it.
    Producing horses with gentle minds & brilliant movement!
    www.whitfieldfarm.shutterfly.com


    6 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2007
    Posts
    512

    Default

    I have a private motocross track in my PASTURE. My husband and son race motocross, and my husband teaches lessons. I'm in Illinois, and during riding season, spring through fall, I move the horses to an adjacent pasture and they graze about 25 ft. from bikes jumping 80 ft. through the air. I also ride in my nearby arena while the guys ride on the track, and have had friends come over with their horses to ride. They all marvel at just how quickly the horses acclimate to the sound of dirt bikes. I like that dirt bikes are gradually transitioning to all four-strokes, which have a lot deeper, throatier sound than the old chainsaw-like two strokes, which the horses do not seem to like. I do understand that the sound of revving bikes is not for everyone (like Whitfield Farm Hanoverians -- sorry, some of our friends are at Georgia Training Facility right now -- a neighbor of yours?), but I grew up with dirt bikes and find the culture as fun and engrossing as our equine one.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 28, 2005
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    89

    Default

    The only way to control the land is to buy it. There are a LOT of people out there who get annoyed when people put horses in their neighborhood (oh, the filth, then stench of manure, the flies, etc.).

    It's PRIVATE property that HE owns. What right to you have to tell him what to do with it?


    6 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2010
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    Motocross track for your own use on private property- OK.
    Motocross track for Exclusive Farm Use? No, sorry, doesn't qualify. In my opinion, that is not an agricultural use.
    This whole thing would depend on the state/county land use laws, I think.
    Some would say, you must only have agricultural use for the property. Some would say, go ahead and put it in but you have to pay taxes on non-agricultural land. Some would say, OK for private use and for friends you invite over, but not for competition, lessons, or other business use.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2011
    Location
    WNC
    Posts
    733

    Default

    Can you go to your county planning and zoning office and ask to see the list of "permitted uses" for your particular area? Some areas are multiple use, some may be agricultural only, some estate residential, some high-density residential, etc. Typically each category will have a list of activities that are either permitted, conditional or not permitted. Find out what kind of zoning you and this guy have. Depending on your specific zoning, the track may be (1) permissible and too bad for you; (2) "conditional," which means the zoning board has to schedule a meeting and hear from him re his request for this use, and from anyone who may object, before they decide whether to permit; (3) it may be not allowed under the zoning in place. So do your homework first; if it is conditional, you can see if others in the area object and band together to make your objections known at the zoning board meeting. No guarantee they'll find in your favor but at least you will have had the chance to explain your objections. And if they lean toward approval you may be able to ask for some conditions like times permitted (e.g., not after 9 pm or before 7 am).
    It's just grass and water till it hits the ground.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitfield Farm Hanoverians View Post
    They were there before the track. That is just plain wrong anyway you look at it.
    I would support that position if it weren't for the legions of people who move into an area and then try (and often succeed) to shut down the "offending" race track, shooting club, airport, stinky farm, etc. that has been there for ages before them.

    It's gotten so bad that state rifle associations have had to lobby for laws that ban NIMBYs from going after gun clubs due to noise or any other issue except real safety issues (like bullets leaving downrange).

    To paraphrase the soup nazi: NO SYMPATHY FOR YOU!


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2005
    Location
    Central California Mountains
    Posts
    773

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flagstaff Foxhunter View Post
    If any of you COTHers know this man, his family, his assistant trainers, or his clients, please speak up.
    You can speak up. Maricopa County has a Citizen review process for special permit applications - Call the county and get the info that you and your neighbors - the one specifically affected - can put their 2 cents in on his request.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    12,004

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by painted02 View Post
    The only way to control the land is to buy it. There are a LOT of people out there who get annoyed when people put horses in their neighborhood (oh, the filth, then stench of manure, the flies, etc.).
    Yes! Totally.
    We had this problem when we bought our piece of land. The neighbor was miserable about how we were ruining the neighborhood by putting our house and small private barn there.

    If the land owner is following the local zoning laws then they are doing nothing wrong. Just because it is not your sport of choice does not make it evil.

    I assume the comments about taxes and such are all assumed and just an attempt at dramatics. What they will pay in taxes after they are done developing is not something you can guess now. Assuming it will be the same as is being paid on the open lot is probably not accurate.

    and local horseback riders have used the parcel for years without ever seeing any signs of a motocross track.
    I find this line amusing. People who do not own the land have been romping around on it for years and that is OK, but the owner wants to do something with it and it is not OK.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I find this line amusing. People who do not own the land have been romping around on it for years and that is OK, but the owner wants to do something with it and it is not OK.
    Where I'm from they are called trespassers.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2005
    Posts
    2,268

    Default

    What the OP said was that there were "draconian zoning regulations" that applied to people who live there but that he/she thought this person was not being held to the same standard. That is an enormous problem in areas that are highly regulated. The regulations are not applied to everyone. That is a problem that OP raised. I did notice that the person opening the motorcycle track does not live in the area at all.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 10, 2012
    Posts
    689

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Coyoteco View Post
    I did notice that the person opening the motorcycle track does not live in the area at all.
    Irrelevant, so long as they own the property


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 24, 2005
    Posts
    2,268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caballero View Post
    Irrelevant, so long as they own the property
    It is not irrelevant as it is said in a response to comments in the thread that the owner of the motorcycle property lived on that property which is inconsistent with the recitation of facts in the op. That's the only reason I mentioned it - to clarify a misstatement made in a subsequent post.

    As I said, the op's problem is unequal application of the law. One person can't put up a shade for horses, and another can put in a motorcross track that is inconsistent with the area. I actually think both should be allowed, but that is not the facts stated in the op. The simple shelter is not allowed so



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    12,004

    Default

    It is not inconsistent. A shelter is a building. A track is not a building is just pushing dirt around.

    And really, like has been said, this person owns this land and they want to use it a certain way. If the local zoning allows for that use then the NIMBY stuff is just people wanting control over land that is not theirs.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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