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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2012
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    Wellington, FL
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    39

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    Quote Originally Posted by equinekingdom View Post
    $1200/month is expensive for board!!! I hope it's a premium facility!!
    .
    Different parts of the country, different perspectives... I would die of happiness if I could find $1200 for board and training.

    A lot of horses around here get leased (during season) anywhere from 3k -30k/month! So, the price seems quite fair especially for a packer.

    Obviously don't know the horse, but the lameness makes things more tricky... Especially, like someone else mentioned, in contractual terms. How does the contract define the lameness? If the horse has passed a vet check like the owner stated, ASK FOR THE RADIOGRAPHS and have an unaffiliated vet take a look.

    It might be the attorney in me nit-picking, but if they refuse to release the vet findings, I would think there might be something hidden.

    Why not have the horse vetted?



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    16,333

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebird View Post
    Thank you all for the advice and comments! Let me answer a few questions from the thread:

    1. The lessor agreed to a clause that says if her lameness ever makes her unridable, I can get out of the lease and receive a prorated refund. (Another question: is it customary to pay the lease fee all up front, or in monthly installments?)

    2. The $1200 / month is $600 / month in board and $600 / month in training, which gets me lessons plus training rides for the mare when I can't ride.

    3. I, too, am puzzled by the mystery lameness issue. I am taking them at their word that they've vetted her and the vets can find nothing and that the mystery lameness doesn't interfere with her work. I was able to see the (slight) lameness issue myself when I watched her go at a show.

    4. It's not that I can't show, it's just that I don't plan to. I might eventually do some showing, but I want to get my riding back up to speed and be comfortable jumping around a 3'6" course at home first. I am really an amateur pleasure rider, not a serious competitor.

    5. I feel like I would do best on a "total packer" so that I can focus on improving my riding. I think it's fair to characterize me as a timid rider now (about a year in after a 15-year break), although I'm working on that, and my seat and technique are definitely not where they need to be. I'm not sure if I "need" that kind of horse, but my ride on the lease candidate was definitely the most pleasant I've had since taking up riding again.

    I'm trying her again tomorrow or Friday and then will make a decision.
    So wait, I am unclear. Are you planning to buy a 3'6 show horse or a 3'0 show horse or just some pleasure horse after this lease is up? If you're planning on buying a 3'6 show horse at the end of this, your plan to basically not show and just get confidence might not be quite the right plan. If you plan to buy a nice pleasure horse, I'm back in the "why do you need THIS horse as a confidence horse" camp. Can you be a little clearer about what you're doing now, what you hope to accomplish with a lease, and what you plan to buy? I think that would help a LOT in assessing the situation.

    I have to say, I am disturbed that someone was out showing a horse that, from the rail, there was a visible lameness. If it was bad enough to be seen, why were they showing and why can't the vets figure out what's wrong?!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/


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  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    32,033

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    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    ....What horse doesn't have the stride to do 3'? And lead changes?
    Actually alot of them do not have the step to do a full course with combinations smoothly enough to pin well in top AA Hunter competition. The ones that do command a higher price from somebody who wants to learn to jump 3' and maybe move up to 3'6" on a schoolmaster.

    If this OP specifically wants to do that and can easily (more or less) afford it? I am not going to say no to her. If she just wants to dink around locally at 2'6" and take lessons? Then it's too much. There are plenty of them out there for half the price suitable to learn on.

    There is something called serviceably sound that probably applies to this one as it does to most experienced show horses that don't jog like they did 10 years ago, alot of those are in the 3' because, in most zones, they do not jog. Long as it's pain free (without alot of help)and still willing, why not?

    As a reference I leased a 17 year old former AA Jr Hunter to learn the 3' on for 7500 a year (plus board and all expenses) in 1993 and 4. He wouldn't jog either.

    The fact the owner has an "escape clause" in the lease is a pretty good deal. But I might have a vet look at her first just to make sure...I NEVER trust anybody.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
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    1,218

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    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Actually alot of them do not have the step to do a full course with combinations smoothly enough to pin well in top AA Hunter competition. The ones that do command a higher price from somebody who wants to learn to jump 3' and maybe move up to 3'6" on a schoolmaster.
    I must be from a freak area then because a horse with a 12' stride and able to do a 3' course is NOT rare. No one said anything about winning at the top shows in the country. No one said anything about 3'6''. The point was, a big enough stride to do a 3' course... and I'm sorry, but I really don't see that as a rare thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    There is something called serviceably sound that probably applies to this one as it does to most experienced show horses that don't jog like they did 10 years ago, alot of those are in the 3' because, in most zones, they do not jog. Long as it's pain free (without alot of help)and still willing, why not?
    I guess part of my issue with this is, how do we know it's pain free? In most cases, an animal will limp or move with a hitch because of pain. Perhaps this horse isn't in pain, but how can we really tell? We don't know what kind of testing the owners have done to determine this. That would worry me.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2003
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    2,265

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    Holy cow, that sounds fishy to me! If a horse is unsound there is a cause (or more than one), and it seems to me that such a gem of a horse would have someone paying good vets to diagnose it. I mean, even if the reason is something like: the horse is older, the cause is (perhaps) arthritis, and that can be managed. If it was diagnosed as a fused ankle or whatever, like a poster mentioned above for her horse, it is still diagnosed and therefore can be managed/ignored/whatever the protocol might be.

    At the very least this tells you that the owners aren't willing to pay for getting their horse properly examined/treated which would not bode well for you getting your money back if she ends up becoming unrideable. And at the most it tells you the mare has been diagnosed and the owners are trying to keep her value up by not disclosing this. Or it could be something in the middle- but if I was going to drop 15k on an unsound lease horse to teach me how to get around 3'6" I would not sign anything until *I* had it vetted by the vet of my choice to make sure I wasn't throwing my money away as well as so I would feel better about riding something that was NQR (poor mare!)

    And if you have any uncertainties paying 15k at the outset seems silly. You need to protect yourself because even the nicest-seeming people can have it in them to screw over someone else, unfortunately.
    You can take a line and say it isn't straight- but that won't change its shape. Jets to Brazil



  6. #46
    Join Date
    May. 11, 2010
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    930

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    Quote Originally Posted by equinekingdom View Post
    $1200/month is expensive for board!!! I hope it's a premium facility!!
    Actually the OP stated the board is only 600, which is VERY reasonable to me in my area. The additional 600 is the training rides and lessons.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,463

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    Quote Originally Posted by over the moon View Post
    I must be from a freak area then because a horse with a 12' stride and able to do a 3' course is NOT rare. No one said anything about winning at the top shows in the country. No one said anything about 3'6''. The point was, a big enough stride to do a 3' course... and I'm sorry, but I really don't see that as a rare thing.
    IMO, OP, if this 3' horse's purpose is to prepare you to ride/buy a 3'6" horse, then you do need something with closer to AA show step.

    In other words, there's a difference between a 3' horse that really schools 2'6" most of the time and has the lines shortened from him at home, and the bona fide competitive 3' horse, who can lope down the lines in the AA or Children's Hunters.

    The gap between the 2'6"-type 3' horse and the AO hunter is large and it might make your first few months at 3'6" into more of a wake-up call about what you didn't learn during this lease year.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    12,770

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    I see it as learning to see a distance and feeling a stride change can be done without a fancy horse under you. And yes, I realize jumping 12" cross rails is not the same as doing a 3'6 hunter trip. Not suggesting the OP lease a horse that limited.

    Saying you need to get your confidence back on a fancy show horse because when you are done with this lease horse you are buying a fancy show horse just seems weird to me. Learning the feel of getting down the lines on your lease horse does not mean the horse you buy will have the same feel so why is it important to learn on a horse with that feel?
    I am not saying the OP should lease something that can barely make it down the lines and has to be run out of its hide to get there. I just think while at the basic learning and confidence level a safe horse is more important than a fancy horse. You can learn lengthening and shortening on a safe horse. You can learn balance and seeing your spots on a safe horse, etc.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
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    1,218

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    For clarification, my comments about striding is in direct reference to this post, not a suggestion to the OP.

    Quote Originally Posted by toomanyponies View Post
    I think the key here is how high you will be jumping and what kind of stride you will be practicing. If you are jumping 3 ft and practicing the horse show steps and want to put it all together with clean lead changes, this mare is priced exactly right and may even be a deal - sounds like she has extra. I dont know that I could find a horse to introduce someone to the 3 ft safely with the correct step and a lead change for cheaper than that. At least not in a major market area.
    I do not agree that the ability to jump 3', along with having a 12' stride and a lead change warrants a lease fee of $15,000+ (those three things being considered only). That is not to say that what the OP needs is that simple, I'm simply responding to the above comment.

    Now, what the OP wants/needs may be totally different. And if she wants a horse to work her up to 3'6'', that's a whooole 'nother ball game.

    Just to be clear.



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2012
    Location
    Wellington, FL
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    39

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    Quote Originally Posted by thebird View Post
    Is $15k for a year lease (plus vet, farrier, etc. and $1200 / month in board and training) of a super smooth, fancy (tall, four big white socks, blaze), and reliable hunter mare with a mild soundness issue that doesn't affect her work but is visible in the jog at a show a good deal?
    Instead of a year lease, would the owners consider a 3 or 6 month lease? Especially since it sounds like the horse will be remaining in their barn.

    Considering the horse's gimp, that might be a better option for you in case the condition worsens.



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