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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2011
    Posts
    8

    Default Lease Pricing Question

    Is $15k for a year lease (plus vet, farrier, etc. and $1200 / month in board and training) of a super smooth, fancy (tall, four big white socks, blaze), and reliable hunter mare with a mild soundness issue that doesn't affect her work but is visible in the jog at a show a good deal?

    I have no real plans to show, I'm just looking for something on which to improve my riding and build confidence over courses. Lease is in Houston. I would plan to buy something suitable once my riding is back up to par at the end of the lease.

    She is at the barn where I ride, and I trust the trainers there, but I wanted to get a second opinion since I don't really know the wider market. I tried her once and loved her --- super comfortable and forgiving ride.

    Thanks in advance!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    Is the mare worth $45k? General rule of thumb is 1/3 of the horse's price/worth.

    ETA: I don't think I'd drop 15k on a lease horse I don't even plan on showing when I anticipate purchasing my own mount shortly after the lease. Seems like a waste to me; why blow 15k if you're only using the horse to improve your riding? Personally, I'd put that 15k towards my horse budget. A horse you own can improve your riding just as much as a horse you lease.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2011
    Posts
    346

    Default

    For a horse with a visible soundness issue, yes, I think that is a lot. If you have no plans to show and are only looking for a mount to give you some confidence jumping courses, I think you can find something for substantially under that price tag. As the previous poster stated, a 15K lease would be for a horse worth 45K. In this economy, a horse with soundness issues would be a tough sell at that price. I'd shop around before committing to that. Just my opinion. Good luck!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2006
    Posts
    1,509

    Default For that type of money...

    You can take lessons that cost $100 each 6 days a week and not have to shoe, vet, or any other misc expenses.
    $100 a lesson is very expensive, or cheaper lessons and lease a horse for clinics and go to several..

    Just a thought
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
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    6 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2008
    Posts
    167

    Default

    I shall not give an opinion as I know said horse and rider, but I will provide some more specifics:

    Horse is from a BNT, is an "AA" hack winner without the soundness issue but still completely beginner safe. Takes a 10yr old beginner around maiden courses just as easily as she does 3'6" derby courses. Soundness never gets worse and she vets clean (no one can find anything wrong, she just isn't 100%).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 21, 2000
    Posts
    1,979

    Default

    The price may be reasonable but for your goals ... No. If you wanted to lease first I'd find an average horse for much less cost. If I had $15k for a years usage I might start looking on what you can buy and work on your riding as you are shopping, unless the current barn doesn't have that sort of horse available while your shop.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2008
    Posts
    322

    Default

    15k for a horse you can't show definitely isn't a good deal, but it might be right for your situation if you have the specific goal of showing in the 3'6 the year after the lease and want something to give you confidence and experience before buying your own. If you aren't working on moving up to the 3'6, then it absolutely is a rip off. There are plenty of x-rails to 3ft packer horses that you can show lease for around 15k (or under).


    1 members found this post helpful.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2001
    Location
    over yonder
    Posts
    2,850

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JustMyStyle View Post
    I shall not give an opinion as I know said horse and rider, but I will provide some more specifics:

    Horse is from a BNT, is an "AA" hack winner without the soundness issue but still completely beginner safe. Takes a 10yr old beginner around maiden courses just as easily as she does 3'6" derby courses. Soundness never gets worse and she vets clean (no one can find anything wrong, she just isn't 100%).
    Since the horse does have a soundness issue it really doesn't matter from a pricing perspective it is used to be a hack winner. Also, not sure how she can vet clean but isn't 100%????

    OP, while it sounds like this lease is over prioced, only you can say for sure. For instance if you are a newish rider without a lot of confidence and this horse makes you feel like you can conquer the world it might be worth doing. On the other hand, if it is just that this is a pretty horse with a nice resume, I think you can probably do better money wise with something less fancy.
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    11,201

    Default

    I would think you can find a better price for a horse not as fancy but just as beginner safe as a learn on get confidence back horse. If you are not going to show the horse you are going to lease you do not need the fancy side, just the safe side. And though safe does cost money, just safe and not fancy is less than safe and fancy.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #10

    Default

    I think the key here is how high you will be jumping and what kind of stride you will be practicing. If you are jumping 3 ft and practicing the horse show steps and want to put it all together with clean lead changes, this mare is priced exactly right and may even be a deal - sounds like she has extra. I dont know that I could find a horse to introduce someone to the 3 ft safely with the correct step and a lead change for cheaper than that. At least not in a major market area.

    If you are only jumping 2 6 or the step isnt a concern, or a good lead change doesnt matter then absolutely you can lease something for less.

    And to the poster who argued that you can lesson every day for less? absolutely right - if you want a walk trot jump cross rails lesson. If you want to jump real jumps, with real step, you have to pay for that priviledge.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2005
    Posts
    1,218

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toomanyponies View Post
    I think the key here is how high you will be jumping and what kind of stride you will be practicing. If you are jumping 3 ft and practicing the horse show steps and want to put it all together with clean lead changes, this mare is priced exactly right and may even be a deal - sounds like she has extra. I dont know that I could find a horse to introduce someone to the 3 ft safely with the correct step and a lead change for cheaper than that. At least not in a major market area.

    If you are only jumping 2 6 or the step isnt a concern, or a good lead change doesnt matter then absolutely you can lease something for less.

    And to the poster who argued that you can lesson every day for less? absolutely right - if you want a walk trot jump cross rails lesson. If you want to jump real jumps, with real step, you have to pay for that priviledge.
    Sorry, I'm confused... We're taking the horse's step into play? What horse doesn't have the stride to do 3'? And lead changes? Besides the fact that that's irrelevant because she's not showing... Those are some odd criteria for a lease. A 12' stride and a clean change do not (IMO) a 15k lease make. Those two things are a dime a dozen.

    I won't comment on whether or not the lease is priced well as I don't know the horse. The lameness does give me pause. Even if it's just because the horse must be sore SOMEWHERE if it's limping, it just hasn't been found yet. I wouldn't want to be a contributor.

    I will say again that I think it's a bit of a silly thing to do to pay 15k on a lease right before buying a horse just to get your confidence up. 15k is a lot of money. Add that to your horse budget and you'll probably be able to buy a (sound) horse that will get your confidence up - and then you get to keep it!


    2 members found this post helpful.

  12. #12

    Default

    I think if you enjoy riding her and will get to do some shows this year then it sounds like a great situation. Whatever the soundness issue is, it doesn't sound like you show in a division that requires a jog anyway (ie jr hunters?) and that your trainer will be able to manage her comfort level. After a year with this horse you will probably have gained a lot of experience which will be helpful when shopping for a horse to buy.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    18,923

    Default

    Is this a real question? If so, I vote no way.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2001
    Posts
    2,463

    Default

    She sounds like a nice horse. If you don't want to reserve the $15k towards the purchase price of the horse you will buy, I would use the lameness as a negotiating point on the lease price.

    For your purposes, you are essentially leasing a schoolmaster that is a good egg but has visible and continuing soundness issues. I might pay $5k-$6k a year to lease something like this.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2000
    Location
    Chatham, NY USA
    Posts
    4,098

    Default

    Putting $30K+ on a horse you don't own and don't intend to show? While I am ALL FOR confidence building (had mine ripped to shreds and even as a teen, it did not come back easily), I am not of the school where the horse knows it all and all the rider needs to do is know where the buttons are (which is what toomanyponies sounds like to me). I believe you learn to ride, to become a better horseman, by riding different horses (as many as possible). It DOES help tremendously to ride a horse that will give you what you want easily so you can FEEL what 'it' is supposed to be like, but once you have that feel...

    Then again, just know that I am a fossil who still can't wrap my brain around pricing these days.

    Carol
    www.ayliprod.com
    Equine Photography in the Northeast


    3 members found this post helpful.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2006
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    742

    Default

    If you were planning to show this horse, particularly at 3', I would say this horse if priced appropriately since 3' divisions don't jog (at least in my area) so the jog issue wouldn't come into play. Based on the post about the horse being the hack winner, I am assuming the hack class is not an issue.
    However, for the OPs purposes, I think you could learn and build confidence on a less fancy horse. I would have to ask though, and maybe I missed it, what do you plan to work on for the next year? If your goal is to learn to jump 3'6" courses by the end of this year, then you probably will have to pay a lease fee like this, as in my experience it is hard to find a 3'6" horse to lease for less than 15k/ year, especially one that sounds safe and fairly push button (I would actually say that is a bargain for that case). Is it that you can't show this horse or you are choosing not to? I wasn't clear on that front. If the horse can show, it is definitely worth a 15k lease, whether the lessee chooses to show or not.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    14,497

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grandprixjump View Post
    You can take lessons that cost $100 each 6 days a week and not have to shoe, vet, or any other misc expenses.
    $100 a lesson is very expensive, or cheaper lessons and lease a horse for clinics and go to several..

    Just a thought
    Yabbut, the OP might have a hard time finding quality schoolies-- no matter how often she rode.

    Otherwise, OP, I think the trainer/owner "saw you coming" and $15K is a little steep. As others have said, they can't sell a mare who won't jog for $45K.

    So leasing is what you do in this situation. Leasing to someone who never needs a super-sound horse is, well, their wet dream. Why? Because her fanciness cannot matter to anyone else since she can't be shown very well.

    OTOH, is she a total packer? Will she bail you out of every bad situation you get into? Do you need that kind of horse? Is she unusual among the horses you have been looking at? If these are true, I can see paying some kind of lease fee for her.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2012
    Posts
    545

    Default

    If you aren't showing, I think $15K for the year is a bit much. If you were planning on showing her, I think the story would be different. As someone else said, you can get some lessons on very good horses for similar or less and have the added benefit of getting a wide variety of experience.
    ~ In the chaos of the showing, remember riding should be fun for all, including our 4-legged kids.

    ~ Loving mom of the world's biggest puppy, my draft-X Sirius Black



  19. #19
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2011
    Location
    Zone 5
    Posts
    51

    Default

    Just a few observations, in no particular order.

    If you decide to lease this horse, you should consider how the soundness issue will affect your vet bill and possibly your farrier bill since you will be at least partially responsible for those bills. Additionally, you should consider how a bout of unsoundness that affects your ability to ride her regularly will be handled in the lease. I don't imagine you want to pay the freight on a horse you can't ride.

    If the soundness issue is limited to more of a "hmm, does she look a little stiff once in a while" sort of thing, it may work out fine but consider that an unsound horse won't pass a pre-purchase and a horse that can't pass a pre-purchase is not worth $45,000 to most people.

    Someone else mentioned that one can't really jump courses of any magnitude on a school horse and that is generally true. If your objective is to build confidence and eventually end up in the 3' or 3'6" divisions, you will have to either buy, lease or share-board to get there so this horse may be a good means to do that for you. On the other hand, remember that the freight costs more than the horse in most cases so you may end up better off buying something now of similar caliber (without the soundness issue) if that is what you will be looking for at the end of the lease anyway. I'd rather pay for training my horse than someone else's and I don't get the impression that at the end of this lease you would be looking for a green horse.

    Just some things to think about. Hope it's helpful.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2009
    Posts
    653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by toomanyponies View Post
    . I think the key here .... If you want to jump real jumps, with real step, you have to pay for that priviledge.
    Huh ... lease an unsound horse to practice jumping 3 ft plus???? What kind of horsemanship is this? That would be my 'key' question.


    4 members found this post helpful.

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