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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Jacksonville, FL
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    863

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    Out of the 2 PMUs we had both were very opinionated and knew what they could get away with. The one I broke and trained would do stuff to other people that she never even tried with me because she knew she could get away with it other people. I'd see how she does when you challenge her a bit and see the reaction you get. she may those people's number and know she doesn't have to canter go straight, etc.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2012
    Posts
    20

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    I think this horse is way over priced for what you're getting IMHO. Negotiate for sure. She's cute but not exceptionally.
    I don't understand how the pmu thing is of any relevance what so ever. Whether the dams urine is collected or not does not make or break a horse.
    I would agree with some of the other posters in regards to the canter concerns. I have a perch/QH who has an unbelievably difficult time with cantering under saddle. I have another perch cross who is lovely and agile. So you never know.
    Regardless, I think she fits the bill in terms of being able to do what you're looking for in the future just make sure you follow your instincts on this. You can buy a couple horses off the track for this amount of cash that may be just as suitable and way less green.

    Best of luck!



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2009
    Location
    The Mitten
    Posts
    1,136

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    Quote Originally Posted by thistleswamp View Post
    I don't understand how the pmu thing is of any relevance what so ever. Whether the dams urine is collected or not does not make or break a horse.
    A. I think the point is that some (many) PMU mares were bred willy-nilly with no thought to how the "by-product" would turn out. On the other hand, some were bred more carefully to create a better conformed, more useful foal. As someone else has already done some of the work to identify the breeder, etc, it's actually possible to investigate what category this mare's breeders fell into and see the sire (and maybe the dam) for insight into how this gal might turn out as she matures.

    B. There are incentive programs for horses registered under NAERIC. Money, prizes, etc.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
    Location
    Area IX
    Posts
    352

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    ok so I just got back from seeing her and I am honestly IMPRESSED. She moved super cute- huge walk and trot. Her canter was fine on lunge but we couldn't get her to canter under saddle. She IS very green but not dangerous at all. She agreed to a month (at least) lease which is great, I am going to try her and see how it goes. She has a lovely personality.
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!


    8 members found this post helpful.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2009
    Location
    Raeford, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,714

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    Congrats! Keep us all posted
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,073

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    Good on you....



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2010
    Location
    North AL
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    815

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    One thing only, her heels (front) look kind of under run. Hopefully that will get worked out.
    Keep us posted



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

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    Did she really have a good quality four beat walk in person? Her walk in the video is pretty awful which makes me wonder about her canter quality. How was that?
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
    Location
    Area IX
    Posts
    352

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    Her walk was her best gait, she stepped under herself good and walked briskly
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

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    Great!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
    Location
    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    1,872

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    exciting! I hope it works out well!



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2009
    Posts
    8,380

    Default GREAT !!!! AO ~

    GREAT !!!! AO ~ ENJOY !!
    Zu Zu Bailey " IT"S A WONDERFUL LIFE !"



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,318

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    Super! Keep us posted!!!



  14. #54
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    6,440

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    Quote Originally Posted by KateMcCall View Post
    ok so I just got back from seeing her and I am honestly IMPRESSED. She moved super cute- huge walk and trot. Her canter was fine on lunge but we couldn't get her to canter under saddle. She IS very green but not dangerous at all. She agreed to a month (at least) lease which is great, I am going to try her and see how it goes. She has a lovely personality.
    Thanks for the update (which I somehow missed )

    Refusing to canter undersaddle may just be a balance issue - lots of trot work will strengthen her, also pole work (start at the walk with a green horse).
    Do you have a trainer you can work with? you might invest in weekly (or more frequent) lessons while you have the horse on trial.

    Do be certain to have a clear & concise contract in place while you have the mare (insurance, vet check before you take the mare, negotiated sale price, etc)


    She IS very green but not dangerous at all.
    Be cautious of this sort of conclusion until you've seen how she deals with stress & being pushed beyond her comfort level.



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
    Location
    Area IX
    Posts
    352

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    Thanks for the advice! I was actually thinking something similar - I was going to do straight ground work with her the first week- trot poles/cavalettis, get her going canter steady on the lunge and maybe use my pessoa system.

    I have a trainer who is experienced with greenies and problem horses, that I ride with once a week
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2010
    Posts
    1,212

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    I like her.

    I think that the canter might be a bigger issue than you are expecting, though.

    I had a Perchy/TB gelding ten years ago. He had a hotter, less ammy-friendly mind than most draft crosses. He had a SUPER fancy trot, very floaty, ground covering, without the knee-flicking paddle that screams DRAFT!! He had a great gallop. He could jump 3'9" without hardly exerting himself. But getting a reasonable canter on a 20 meter circle took two years.
    I had a friend with a little Belgian/Arab cross, she had similar trouble with getting a canter, took them 18 months, as well.

    With the draft blood, you will also be a bit challenged in the realm of conditioning. I don't think you'll have trouble getting through Novice, but warnings about draft crosses not always able to be first flight foxhunters are worth paying attention to. Getting through Training on XC without time faults might be a challenge.

    If you are having a vet check, I would also look into insulin resistance, PSSM and other 'tying up' issues that go with the genetic territory dealing with a draft cross. These problems are usually manageable, if you are paying attention to the horse's feeding intolerances, but it would be best to know at the start.

    I think you can GET a real canter, but it will take a lot longer than you would expect from a non draft cross, green prospect.

    A good mind goes a LONG way, and I think she's a dandy prospect for what you say your requirements are.



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,828

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    Sorry I think she is a very pretty dapple grey color and that is it. Alarms are going off all over the place. Training is not there so price her as if she has no training and why does she have no training...she is big and will grow into herself?...she hasn't she is still lacking in muscle and balance. Whoa go walk trot canter...no canter...and in a draft where the canter can be non existant or very poor...I would want to see a very good canter for a draft cross before I would go ahead...those crosses are out there too. You do NOT want to carry a draft cross...you want them to be athletic and carry themselves at all their gaits...those are the draft crosses worth putting time and training into. The head flipping and lack of interest in the bit...I do not believe that is just a training issue...at best she should have her teeth looked at and at worse get her out in the sun and see if she is a head flipper(head flipping is a heart breaking problem)...so you have no canter and mouth issues. She has a pretty front, her neck is a nice length and she has a nice shoulder and saddle position...flat feet? She needs a heel at least. This is a foot that needs a shoe...there are many wonderful draft crosses with great feet, this isn't one of them. Then behind the girth she kind of falls apart structurally. Weak loin, no muscle, moves without energy and oomph behind...is it because she is only 6...she has the look of a 3yo behind...I see this kind of lack of muscle and I think EPSM and I wouldn't touch her unless she passed a vetting with biopsy. EPSM is in a very high percentage of drafts and their crosses. The issue with draft crosses is that you buy them at this age so you can see that they do NOT have the common issues draft horses bring to the sport horse equation. This mare has problems draft horses bring to the equation. Do NOT bypass a vetting because you get a free trial. I am a big person and have lived in the draft cross universe I have had great draft crosses and terrible draft crosses. She is pretty but that is not enough. PatO


    1 members found this post helpful.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2000
    Location
    Clarksdale, MS--the golden buckle on the cotton belt
    Posts
    18,316

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    Quote Originally Posted by KateMcCall View Post
    Thanks for the advice! I was actually thinking something similar - I was going to do straight ground work with her the first week- trot poles/cavalettis, get her going canter steady on the lunge and maybe use my pessoa system.

    I have a trainer who is experienced with greenies and problem horses, that I ride with once a week
    Wincing at the mention of a Pessoa balance system at this stage of training. At least wait until she's comfortable enough with her balance to be willing to canter under saddle. Just very personal opinion, but I hate those things. They are gadgets and I'm willing to accept that they may have their place at a certain level of training, but just beginning ((IMHO) ain't it.

    And do take what the posters who say 'be careful' to heart. Remember that this is just a trial. You aren't committed yet.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire


    2 members found this post helpful.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2010
    Location
    The Sunny South
    Posts
    387

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    I can add some info on Early Dawn Sporthorses. I found them many years ago after learning about NAERIC and byproducts of the PMU industry. They were one of the few farms that seemed to be trying to market to the crowd who would be looking for "sport horses". Out of curiosity, I contacted them and got some videos of their current crop of foals. My overall impressions were that they bred A LOT of horses. Also, they didn't have stallions who were as nice as they claimed, and none of them had done anything other than maybe race if they were TBs. Finally, I definitely got the impression that they photographed the babies all during those magical early months when it is hard for most people to know what they are going to get.

    None of these things mean that they produced bad horses, but I just got a bit of a "marketing and sales" vibe from the whole operation. They dealt in volume, that's for sure.

    Just some extra info. Really no bearing on your decision, but I figured I'd put it out there for those who were interested.

    Good luck!
    My boy, "Mr. Nice Guy"

    Ask me about Final Furlong, Inc. - promoting "Responsible retirement for thoroughbred racehorses through the racing industry".



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,167

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    Thanks for updating us and I hope we get regular reports.

    I am wincing at the Pessoa system suggestion too...especially with one that has not found the go button yet. Wouldn't be my choice here-they are better suited for farther along in training or older horses with bad habits and only then not very often and not fot too long. If at all.

    I would love to see some video of her in about 2 weeks after some decent schooling and maybe a farrier consult. I just got the impression whoever was riding her in the sales videos did not want to press the issue too much...pretty tentative like they were afraid of her. That should be easy to fix with some proper work on the aids and going forward presented as a demand, not an option. She may need to do alot more correct trotting and some transition work before you ask for a canter...but she should get it quick enough in a regular program.

    Looking forward to the updates (and get a PPE, better to know know instead of after purchase if there is something).

    Did you name her yet?
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



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