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  1. #1
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    Question Suspended trainers still allowed to show at IEL & nonrated horse shows?

    Can someone enlighten me why horse trainers/instructors are still allowed to bring clients, teach at IEL shows and also show at nonrated shows?
    Last edited by Jumper_SoCal; Sep. 27, 2013 at 02:40 PM.



  2. #2

    Default

    Because the IEL and unrated shows aren't USEF.

    If they wanted to operate under USEF rules, they would be USEF rated.

    If you only want to participate in circuits that enforce USEF rules, including suspensions, stick to USEF-rated shows.



  3. #3
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    Default

    But don't most of the unrated shows have a charter which requires that they operate under USEF rules...???



  4. #4

    Default

    USEF is just one org out of many, many, many horse show orgs.

    They can't require any non-rated show to follow their rules.

    Some unrated shows may say they are following USEF rules, but not all of them do. And they certainly don't have to.

    The thing to do is look at the rules for the particular show/circuit/whatever and find out exactly what rule structure they are working under. That's the only one that matters when you enter their shows.



  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_SoCal View Post
    But don't most of the unrated shows have a charter which requires that they operate under USEF rules...???
    Actually I would guess that most do not.
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  6. #6
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    Default

    The New Jersey Horse Shows Association has a rule that if a member is suspended by USEF, NJHSA suspends their membership during the USEF suspension period. NJHSA can't prevent them from going to unrecognized shows, but they don't allow them to earn points towards a year-end high score award (NJHSA count points from both recognized and unrecognized shows). In terms of other USEF/USHJA rules, NJHSA (and NJPHA) have a statement in their specs that reads "Every class offered herein which is covered by the rules and specifications of the current USEF rule book will be conducted and judged in accordance therewith."

    I guess with local/state associations, YMMV.
    Why do I like most horses better than most people?



  7. #7
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    Default

    Even when an unrcognized show, or series, SAYS it is operating under USEF rules, that doesn't mean they are following ALL the USEF rules.

    For instance, they almost never mean that they are following the rules about USEF membership for owner, rider. trainer, or the USEF rules about Horse registration.

    Except for Californa,whch has State Laws, unrecognized shows almost never follow the USEF rules about drug testing, and so on.

    Not only do most unrecognized shows not ban people suspended by USEF, there are plenty of successful unrecognized competions RUN BY people on the USEF suspended list.
    Last edited by Janet; Jan. 25, 2013 at 11:31 PM.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).


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  8. #8
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    Default

    No dog in this fight, but could this be another witch-hunt from someone with an agenda, or a genuine enquiry from a sincere poster?
    Proud member of People Who Hate to Kill Wildlife clique



  9. #9
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    Default

    Many schooling shows will claim that the rules are USEF rules. That doesn't make them sanctioned shows or, as stated above, that they are following all of the USEF rules. I guess they can say whatever they want. Nothing the USEF can do about who shows at non-sanctioned shows.



  10. #10
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    Default

    USEF does not govern unrated shows; unrated shows use USEF rules as guidelines but cannot enforce USEF rules - because they are no USEF shows. USEF rules only apply to USEF rated/sanctioned shows. Also an unrated show cannot really demand a rider show their USEF amateur card because you don't have to join USEF to show at an unrated show.



  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    USEF does not govern unrated shows; unrated shows use USEF rules as guidelines but cannot enforce USEF rules - because they are no USEF shows. USEF rules only apply to USEF rated/sanctioned shows. Also an unrated show cannot really demand a rider show their USEF amateur card because you don't have to join USEF to show at an unrated show.
    Absolutely right. And of course, local shows and local show associations do not have testers, etc. to enforce certain USEF rules even if they claim to be following them.



  12. #12
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    Default

    I guess that make sense. I dislike that they don't protect their show participants but it is what it is.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_SoCal View Post
    I guess that make sense. I dislike that they don't protect their show participants but it is what it is.
    Part of it is you get what you pay for. Not that there is anything wrong with local shows but their entry fees are more affordable. They wouldn't be that way if the shows had all of the costs of being sanctioned by USEF. So like everything in life, it is a trade off.



  14. #14
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    Default

    Remember that the VAST majority of people on the suspended list are there because they owe the USEF money (often because they refuse to pay a USEF fine that they consider unfair).

    I understand why the USEF suspends them, but that doesn't mean they should be kept away from unrecognized shows.
    Last edited by Janet; Jan. 26, 2013 at 11:38 AM.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    Not only do most unrecognized shows not ban people suspended by USEF, there are plenty of successful unrecognized competions RUN BY people on the USEF suspended list.

    Really? Gettoutatown! That surprises me.

    Otherwise, I have seen what you describe: Local shows use the USEF rules that suit their participants. I haven't seen anything that way out of line, though.
    The armchair saddler
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxtrot's View Post
    No dog in this fight, but could this be another witch-hunt from someone with an agenda, or a genuine enquiry from a sincere poster?
    If the OP's hidden agenda was a local show that claimed "USEF cleanliness" and then didn't live up to that standard, I can see why she/he would ask if her expectations were out of line. That agenda wouldn't bother me.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jumper_SoCal View Post
    I guess that make sense. I dislike that they don't protect their show participants but it is what it is.
    Well, it's not like USEF is a guardian angel, either. A trainer could do something egregious to get suspended by some other governing org (AQHA, AHA, etc) and would be able to jump right into USEF shows.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tricolor View Post
    Part of it is you get what you pay for. Not that there is anything wrong with local shows but their entry fees are more affordable. They wouldn't be that way if the shows had all of the costs of being sanctioned by USEF. So like everything in life, it is a trade off.
    (And another thing!, this being my third post in a row....)

    Post-Humble roll over, USEF members are still paying drug fees and ain't gettin' much in return. So at this point, what does your Clean Player have to lose? Other than USEF pomp and circumstance, I'd say, "Not much."
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    (And another thing!, this being my third post in a row....)

    Post-Humble roll over, USEF members are still paying drug fees and ain't gettin' much in return. So at this point, what does your Clean Player have to lose? Other than USEF pomp and circumstance, I'd say, "Not much."
    I was referring to the costs incurred by show management to have a show sanctioned by USEF and run in accordance with USEF requirements. These costs go beyond the drug fee paid by members, and the benefits to participants go beyond drug testing and include licensed judges, licensed course designers, etc. So, I think there is more than just pomp and circumstance for people who want to compete at USEF shows. Of course, there are plenty of local shows that have nice courses, good judging, good footing, etc. but for many, the quality of judging, competition and environment found at most USEF sanctioned shows is preferable.



  20. #20
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    Default

    Since one does not need to be a member of USEF to participate in an unrated show, it stands to reason that suspension of USEF membership would have no impact on the ability to participate in those unrated shows,
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.



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