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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    color me curious: But currently there is no commercial slaughter of horses in the US, and if I am not mistaken you may not sell meat - horse or other - that has not been inspected...

    soooo, the CL poster could be somebody trying to frame the evil horse eaters?

    It's not hard to find horsemeat on the net, to have it shipped to your house!
    Hmm. The Headline to the CL ad mentioned "it's been legal since 2009." I assume, then, that the CL poster knew people would have qualms but was on the up-and-up.

    Or maybe it was a big trap, a sting(!), if you will, perpetrated in the sleepy Willamette Valley.

    I didn't know you could get it shipped like Kobe steak or Lobsters or St. Louis BBQ or whatever. Good point.
    Last edited by mvp; Jan. 25, 2013 at 11:06 PM.
    The armchair saddler
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianHippo View Post
    OP, sorry, my troll suspicion wasn't directed at you at all. Some of the subsequent comments seemed purposely outrageous/tongue in cheek.
    Would be interesting to hear if the CLer responds to your email.
    No worries. I never post Lame CL ads, but this one was unusual and HR, so I thought it would be good COTH reading material.

    The CL person hasn't responded to my e-mail as yet. I'll let you guys know if he/she does.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    European eaters don't just frown at eating horsemeat that is from horses given banned substances. The meds we use are BANNED in animals for food.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Actually they do just frown on it because they are eating our horses banned medications and all every day of the week. Supposedly that will change this year but is very much happening now.
    Thanks for the clarification.

    There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.

    I didn't explain what bute is, how prevalent it is and that it is known to cause leukemia in humans. But you might have to eat a lot of horse meat for that to be a worry. Otherwise, y'all are correct about our usual meat animals being given plenty of drugs.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  4. #24
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    Go to Ireland and visit Shergar King?
    It's a uterus, not a clown car. - Sayyedati


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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.

    I didn't explain what bute is, how prevalent it is and that it is known to cause leukemia in humans. But you might have to eat a lot of horse meat for that to be a worry. Otherwise, y'all are correct about our usual meat animals being given plenty of drugs.
    Bless you, but I think this person is having a good laugh about the responses he is getting.
    I am sure his inbox is full with the usual 'how dare you' and why don't you eat puppies kind of stuff.

    I am thinking it is is safe to assume, if somebody bothered enough to throw Trigger in the deep freeze, they made sure he didn't have all that newfangled stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Bless you, but I think this person is having a good laugh about the responses he is getting.
    I am sure his inbox is full with the usual 'how dare you' and why don't you eat puppies kind of stuff.

    I am thinking it is is safe to assume, if somebody bothered enough to throw Trigger in the deep freeze, they made sure he didn't have all that newfangled stuff.
    Haha... didn't even think that the CL-er was yanking the chain of the "Farm & Garden" crowd. Could be!

    Well, no use in having a jokester die of leukemia because he didn't know about bute and his homies double-dog dared him to mess with people but eat any horse meat that showed up.
    The armchair saddler
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  7. #27
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    Someone mentioned meat in the US being inspected, etc.

    If you only realized what passes and ends up on the supermarket freezers on a daily basis...

    McCancer burgers, anyone? This is why we stand on our high horse and only buy meat from local farmers we know & trust. As unpalatable as horse meat sounds to me, the stuff we Americans put in our bodies under the guise of consumable food...


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #28
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    If you're buying directly from a local farmer, is the meat USDA inspected? I wouldn't think a private farmer direct to consumer transaction would be regulated at all. Regardless of the type of meat. No federal jurisdiction there.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    Someone mentioned meat in the US being inspected, etc.

    If you only realized what passes and ends up on the supermarket freezers on a daily basis...

    McCancer burgers, anyone? This is why we stand on our high horse and only buy meat from local farmers we know & trust. As unpalatable as horse meat sounds to me, the stuff we Americans put in our bodies under the guise of consumable food...
    Ah, the horse meat was in IRELAND AND ENGLAND.

    and gosh, hyperbole much?

    yes, the FDA allows for so much foreign matter in your food.
    and regulations are broken.

    However, being the way things are I am pretty sure if I had a pound of Trigger in the freezer, I would not sell it to some unknown yahoo over CL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  10. #30
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    I wonder what our local butcher shop would say or how they'd react if we brought in a horse carcass for cut and wrap? They do a booming business of processing wild game... hmm...

    I'm being quite serious when I say that I have no problem with the development of a regulated, humanely slaughtered horse meat industry in this country. I purchase my beef and pork from friends who raise them locally--not because I'm freaked out, but because I like how they treat their livestock. I am fine with the idea that other countries and cultures source their protein from animals we here in America consider taboo. I sincerely wish that all animals raised for slaughter would be treated with humane respect from birth to death, but we certainly aren't there yet.

    And, having seen the pictures of the horses being dumped at the auctions here in the PNW, something needs to be done about the vast numbers being bred and discarded by humans.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Thanks for the clarification.

    There are plenty of "homebody" horses here who probably don't get lots more than vaccinations and worming. I wish I had thought to advise the person to steer clear of any race horses (asking about a lip tattoo so as not to diss all Thoroughbreds). Racers probably have the most/most exotic/most recent cocktails of drugs.
    I wouldn't say that. If we were playing 'eat the horse meat' bingo and the choice was between a racehorse and a big-ticket show hunter you might be safer eating the racehorse because he probably got hormones, Lasix, and bute, while who knows what snake oil the hunter's on because it's only against USEF rules if you get caught and don't have a good lawyer when you are....

    My guess about a butcher/deer processor would be they'd charge you more, unless they're used to doing moose! That's a big chunk of meat.



  12. #32
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    I'm referring less to foreign matter...we live in farm world, foreign matter is a just the way it is sometimes. I'm more referring to the way in which cattle are kept in feed lots, stressed and crammed full of grain living a digestive life for which they are not designed. I've personally been to feed lots and first hand observed the "life" these poor animals endure until they are slaughtered. Humane slaughter and foreign matter is only part of the equation for me & my family. As far as Ireland & England....I'm referring specifically to the States and what we Americans depend upon our government to deem "safe" for us to eat. We are not food nazis but we are educated about our food web and are not in the least disconnected as to how our food (all of it) reaches us.

    Not only do I know the farmers who raise our beef, chicken, pork, and lamb, but I see the animals on those farms and I know the slaughter house that processes the animals. The point I'm making is that while horse meat is unpalatable to me, personally, I can't imagine it is any worse than some of the stuff we check off as okay to consume in the US.

    Written from atop the High Horse where I shall stay...God forbid someone should slaughter my horse out from under me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Ah, the horse meat was in IRELAND AND ENGLAND.

    and gosh, hyperbole much?

    yes, the FDA allows for so much foreign matter in your food.
    and regulations are broken.

    However, being the way things are I am pretty sure if I had a pound of Trigger in the freezer, I would not sell it to some unknown yahoo over CL.


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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I wouldn't say that. If we were playing 'eat the horse meat' bingo and the choice was between a racehorse and a big-ticket show hunter you might be safer eating the racehorse because he probably got hormones, Lasix, and bute, while who knows what snake oil the hunter's on because it's only against USEF rules if you get caught and don't have a good lawyer when you are....
    Well first we'd need to have the Worth Drugging Show Hunter species here in the Willamette Valley. They do exist, but they are endangered. Truth be told, same for race horses, I'd say.

    Having personally gotten dirty in a necropsy room, and then spoken to the folks at the wildlife safari, I can tell you that slicing up a whole horse is not minor task.

    That might be the issue that stops the CL-er from completing the mission. I think there are private butchers to be found for hunters around here, but to find the person with the "deadman walking" horse who will also coordinate with the CL-er... that might be a tall order.

    All in all, I think the CL-er knew this was a weird shot in the dark....the requests on which CL was built.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  14. #34
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    DH told me once that the little butcher shop we use has timeframes to process species, so when deer hunting season comes around they put a hold on all the pigs and cows, and I think he told me that this is federal regulation. I do know that we don't sell meat, we sell the pig to one or more persons and deliver it to the butcher shop for them and they pay the butcher shop for their share.

    We sell to a pastured pork/free range etc slaughterhouse as well and they are big enough to have an inspector etc. I think theoretically we could have meat processed by them using our farm label if we had a farm products store. It was HARD to get our operation to qualify to sell at that place.

    They eat horsemeat on the rez, I'll bet that somebody digs a package out of the freezer for this fella.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
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  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finzean View Post
    I'm referring less to foreign matter...we live in farm world, foreign matter is a just the way it is sometimes. I'm more referring to the way in which cattle are kept in feed lots, stressed and crammed full of grain living a digestive life for which they are not designed. I've personally been to feed lots and first hand observed the "life" these poor animals endure until they are slaughtered. Humane slaughter and foreign matter is only part of the equation for me & my family. As far as Ireland & England....I'm referring specifically to the States and what we Americans depend upon our government to deem "safe" for us to eat. We are not food nazis but we are educated about our food web and are not in the least disconnected as to how our food (all of it) reaches us.

    Not only do I know the farmers who raise our beef, chicken, pork, and lamb, but I see the animals on those farms and I know the slaughter house that processes the animals. The point I'm making is that while horse meat is unpalatable to me, personally, I can't imagine it is any worse than some of the stuff we check off as okay to consume in the US.

    Written from atop the High Horse where I shall stay...God forbid someone should slaughter my horse out from under me.
    You sound there like you know about how to raise cattle and what makes them happy as much as those very nice people that toured this fancy BNT stables and coming out were commenting, concerned, "such pretty horses, but why do they keep them in jail, behind bars?"


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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    If you're buying directly from a local farmer, is the meat USDA inspected? I wouldn't think a private farmer direct to consumer transaction would be regulated at all. Regardless of the type of meat. No federal jurisdiction there.
    That depends but most often it is. I have all my beef and pork slaughtered at a small custom USDA plant in Fredericksburg, Va, so I have the legal ability to sell it one piece at a time..say a lb of burger or a roast. These little places are so busy that it can take weeks to get an appt to have your animal processed. I'm taking an old cow up next week actually...she's open..did not catch and has udder issues...so it's time to put her to another purpose.

    However..going back to your question....if I wanted to sell a "share" of the meat...say half the pig or a quarter of the beef, there is no legal requirement for a USDA seal since the person is buying the animal and not the meat and paying for the processing. Got to love those loopholes but it does require someone to buy a quantity of meat versus just a few pieces and most of the time people just send them to the plant anyway versus do the slaughtering themselves. It's a lot of work to butcher a beef and it needs to hang and age for 2 weeks.

    Keep in mind that a USDA inspection in not a guarantee that the meat is healthy or anything. It only means it passed a visual inspection and certain standards were met. For example if the animal is over 30 months, you have to throw away the spine and the meat you usually get from that area due to Mad Cow regulations and the inspector gets to decide if the cow is that old or not by looking at it's teeth. I suppose they do occasionally substance test but no one has ever asked me if I followed withholding periods for meds or anything. I know what they are and I follow the rules but it's not a question anyone asks.

    I think it's a farce myself but I follow the law because I have to to operate legally not because I think it gives my customers more wholesome meat. Poultry falls under some different rules and you can often do the processing yourselves.



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    That depends but most often it is. I have all my beef and pork slaughtered at a small custom USDA plant in Fredericksburg, Va, so I have the legal ability to sell it one piece at a time..say a lb of burger or a roast. These little places are so busy that it can take weeks to get an appt to have your animal processed. I'm taking an old cow up next week actually...she's open..did not catch and has udder issues...so it's time to put her to another purpose.

    However..going back to your question....if I wanted to sell a "share" of the meat...say half the pig or a quarter of the beef, there is no legal requirement for a USDA seal since the person is buying the animal and not the meat and paying for the processing. Got to love those loopholes but it does require someone to buy a quantity of meat versus just a few pieces and most of the time people just send them to the plant anyway versus do the slaughtering themselves. It's a lot of work to butcher a beef and it needs to hang and age for 2 weeks.

    Keep in mind that a USDA inspection in not a guarantee that the meat is healthy or anything. It only means it passed a visual inspection and certain standards were met. For example if the animal is over 30 months, you have to throw away the spine and the meat you usually get from that area due to Mad Cow regulations and the inspector gets to decide if the cow is that old or not by looking at it's teeth. I suppose they do occasionally substance test but no one has ever asked me if I followed withholding periods for meds or anything. I know what they are and I follow the rules but it's not a question anyone asks.

    I think it's a farce myself but I follow the law because I have to to operate legally not because I think it gives my customers more wholesome meat. Poultry falls under some different rules and you can often do the processing yourselves.
    Carcasses are aged by USDA inspectors for age above 30 months old by the maturity of the cartilage between ribs, in the intercostal spaces.
    There are no teeth to evaluate in hanging carcasses.
    There is much an inspector inspects in the carcass, before it gets stamped.



  18. #38
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    They eat horsemeat on the rez, I'll bet that somebody digs a package out of the freezer for this fella.
    Most don't, but it's not unheard of. A rez friend and co-worker gave me part of an immense chunk of meat that was given to them. Someone will get a deer or an elk, or butcher a steer, and they'll share. I was going to say "left on the doorstep," but the dogs would have it if it wasn't well packaged in a good cooler.

    I thanked her for the meat and asked, half joking, "This isn't horse, is it?" She said, "I don't know. I don't thinnnnnk so..." So we thawed it, roasted it, and turned it into barbecued sandwiches, because barbecue sauce hides a multitude of sins...and there were no horseshoes in the package. It was probably venison, it certainly wasn't beef, but meat's meat.

    Having had a number of horses that I wouldn't have minded eating, if it were convenient and I lived out there with hundreds of junk horses wandering through my yard, I'd sure consider dropping one and making Whinny Whoppers. A game officer who worked elsewhere told me that a backstrap off of a horse should be pretty good, and he'd eat it in a heartbeat if it were available.

    There'd also be no concerns about any meds whatsoever in those horses. They were researching a kill plant, but I don't know the current status of that idea. With some 4000 roaming horses, the raw material is there for quite a while.

    And if I get offered another hunk of frozen mystery meat, I'll say thank you, and break out the barbecue sauce!
    “Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.”
    Drew Carey


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  19. #39
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    Also, there might be mobile butchers/meat processors around here.

    You could find these guys in CA where I grew up, and I think I have seen handmade signs for this in my OR travels.

    I haven't heard hide nor hair of the CL Carnivore since I started this thread.
    The armchair saddler
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    Also, there might be mobile butchers/meat processors around here.

    You could find these guys in CA where I grew up, and I think I have seen handmade signs for this in my OR travels.

    I haven't heard hide nor hair of the CL Carnivore since I started this thread.

    Would horsevore apply here?



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