[JB]

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ghlight=copper

reply #21- by an equine nutrition PhD. Usually copper. "Best" is a relative term. Find a supplement with the most copper. Sure worked for my fading black mare.

Copper deficiency shows up more in fast growing young horses, as they have more need than mature horses.

Yep! And, the darker the coat, the more melanin it takes for the color, and melanin requires copper

[D Taylor]

I like him!!!

Yes, he can fade to any color in the rainow and still be a handsome dude!

[Samotis]

I am pretty sure he is getting enough vitamins and minerals, but since I have heard it is very hard to overdose on copper I am willing to feed him a copper supplement.

I can't seem to find a copper only supplement.

Can anyone point me in the right direction?

He can't do paprika now because he is showing.

[JB]

I listed the straight Cu and Zn products I use Uckele, Poly Copper and Poly Zinc.

I would do both. The things that cause Cu to be lacking usually cause Zn to be lacking as well. But, that's just me, and what works for me

And, you do need to get started asap, since the new coat is well on its way to being developed, even when you can't see it coming in yet.

[Mosey_2003]

He might be getting 'enough' copper, but I've read in various places that the darker the horse, the more copper they need in order to prevent the coat fading, so you could be seriously under-supplementing him and not know it. With a dark horse I'm pretty sure it's hard to overdose, but I remember Pat Coleby saying the lighter the horse, the easier to overdose with it, especially cremellos/palominos. I'd try the Poly Copper starting now.

[EqTrainer]

Look at it the other way. His coat fading is a sign that he is low in copper and probably zinc.

[Samotis]

Ok!

Zinc and copper ordered!

I also read a lot about the ratios so I am hoping that this will help his sun bleaching!

From what I read zinc to copper ratio should be 3 to 1 or 4 to 1.

Also because he is a darker color it seems he may need more of both which is what many of you said.

Thanks!

[Justmyluck]

My horse fades horribly and his parentage makes him a black. Anyway he fades were ever he sweats. You can see a complete bridle on his face and a saddle pad outline on him. Even if I hose him after every ride he still fades horribly.

Examples

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...116_174409.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/o...116_175644.jpg

[rmh_rider]

My horse also will fade where the bridle and saddle were.

What you have to do is rinse really well after each ride. Keep the bridle/halters/pads clean of the salts which fade them.

[PonyPenny]

I had a dark brown horse that always faded to buckskin in the summer no matter what I did. I finally gave up and dyed him back to dark brown. I wish I had pictures to post, but this was pre internet and digital cameras and I did not think it was important to document at the time. I used 10-12 boxes of Clairol Balsam Color in very dark brown. It is still pretty cheap per box. Mixed it up in a bucket and sponged it on. Waited the time stated on the box and rinsed very well ending with a final rinse with a splash of apple cider vinegar. Horse looked great.

[D Taylor]

Ok!

Zinc and copper ordered!

I also read a lot about the ratios so I am hoping that this will help his sun bleaching!

From what I read zinc to copper ratio should be 3 to 1 or 4 to 1.

Also because he is a darker color it seems he may need more of both which is what many of you said.

Thanks!

The ratios of zinc to copper are not well established, but yes in general between the ratio's you listed is thought good.

I however live on high molybdenum soils. High enough that Cu defiency in ruminants can occur. Tho the antagonist role of Mo with Cu in the horse is not to the extreme as in ruminants I tend to keep my Zn to Cu ratio between 2.5 to 1 and 3 to 1.

[vxf111]

I like him!!!

Me too, what type of horse is he?

My experience with paprika was that it was very effective at keeping coats dark. I even felt like ti blackened up the inkspots on my chestnut!

[drawstraws]

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack! Thanks for the compliments everyone - he's a total goofball but I adore him. He's actually an appaloosa but has quite a bit of quarter horse and TB in him.

I did start him on SmartPak's Smart, Dark & Handsome last spring to see if that would help with the fading but he started headshaking out of the blue a couple of weeks after. I think the timing was just a coincidence but since it was the only thing that had changed I pulled him off it right away just to be sure. He's been fine and off all meds since July but it makes me a little gunshy to try it again. Will look into his copper ratios though to see if anything there might be lacking. Good info to have!

[Judysmom]

So how much copper/ zinc?

I feed platinum performance, and it has per scoop 120mg of zinc, and 14mg of copper. Do I need another supplement or is that good?

I just bought a dark brown horse, he's pretty black right now, and I would like his color to stay nice !
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92444452@N05/8404438300/

[newhorsemommy]

I put both my horses on SmartHoof last spring, mostly for the copper and zinc. I don't know if it helped with fading or not, but their coats looked fantastic! I'm keeping them on it. My mare is bay and does fade, but my gelding is a liver chestnut that gets darker and darker all summer. By October he is a deep, dark liver chestnut. Then he gets his winter coat and turns red and fluffy!

[D Taylor]

So how much copper/ zinc?

I feed platinum performance, and it has per scoop 120mg of zinc, and 14mg of copper. Do I need another supplement or is that good?

I just bought a dark brown horse, he's pretty black right now, and I would like his color to stay nice !
http://www.flickr.com/photos/92444452@N05/8404438300/

That is a good question without an easy answer.

Look at the test ranges on grass hay at this link....
http://www.equi-analytical.com/Commo...GetResults.asp

then look at nutrient req's here....
http://www.equi-analytical.com/Putti.../Mature500.htm

Without hay test info you are really in the dark. The good news is horses tolerate zinc and copper very well if you get supplement happy.

Pretty horsie BTW.

[Samotis]

My zinc and copper came in.

He won't eat it!

I mixed it with his pellets and he took one sniff and walked away.


Argh!

I only gave him a tiny bit since it does smell strong, but he won't touch it!

Any ideas to get him to eat it? Applesauce maybe?

[grayarabpony]

I add some molasses and water to feed to get my horse to eat his supplements. Gatorade works too.

[Cindyg]

Argh! Yes, I've used applesauce; but I know that's a pain.

I hope you'll post back in six months and tell us how this works out.

[JB]

Yep, it's a strong smell, so start small small and and start mixing something yummy smelling. You WILL need to make this a bit wet for it all to stick - I don't know that any horse is going to lick it off the bottom of the tub lol