[meupatdoes]

Boiling dogs alive is normal in some cultures (or subcultures of cultures, perhaps), who is anyone to criticize. But of course where the line is drawn between cross-cultural acceptance and moral relativism is a philosophical question and a personal judgment call. The whole question of this thread is what is ok to them and where do people draw their lines.

I freely admit drawing my line on the more conservative end of the spectrum.

I ride my way out of a paper bag well enough I was asked to demo ride my horse at a clinic held by a very famous individual, which unfortunately ended up coinciding precisely with the arrival of Hurricane Sandy. Would my horse have been a good soldier for me despite ride times in the eye of the storm? Absolutely. Was it all very prestigious? Sure. Did he deserve to be exposed to additional travel hazards of navigating a during- and post-hurricane environment? No. I didn't ask him to leap the bank. I turned the truck around and drove eight hours back home. (Btw, the clinic still ran. Other riders obviously drew their lines less conservatively.)

Just because other people make more conservative decisions with the animals who depend on them does not mean they "can't ride their way out of a paperbag." Perhaps they have very valuable horses or perhaps the training took years, or maybe they are just softies. Either way a conservatively drawn line is not occasion for ridicule.

[JSwan]

Oh good grief - do I hear violin music? Really? A FAMOUS individual? Not just a famous individual, but a VERY FAMOUS individual? And you had to ride in a hurricane, not just any hurricane, but the storm of the century? Were you riding a drama llama?

Just because others don't ride their horses in circles on a groomed surface does not make them abusive.

Again, get over yourself. I doubt you could keep up with one of those clubs. I doubt I could - but I'm not so full of myself I have to accuse others of abuse to mask my own inadequacies and fears.

It's Ireland. That's the topography and climate in which the horses exist. That is a fact. If you saw an Arab horse being ridden in the desert it would be no different. That is their normal. Deal with it.

[meupatdoes]

Oh good grief - do I hear violin music? Really? A FAMOUS individual? Not just a famous individual, but a VERY FAMOUS individual? And you had to ride in a hurricane, not just any hurricane, but the storm of the century? Were you riding a drama llama?

Just because others don't ride their horses in circles on a groomed surface does not make them abusive.

Again, get over yourself. I doubt you could keep up with one of those clubs. I doubt I could - but I'm not so full of myself I have to accuse others of abuse to mask my own inadequacies and fears.

It's Ireland. That's the topography and climate in which the horses exist. That is a fact. If you saw an Arab horse being ridden in the desert it would be no different. That is their normal. Deal with it.

Who's shrieking now?

[JSwan]

Just laughing because your post was just so silly. Talk about hyperbole...

Go hunting in Ireland and then get back to us.

[Malda]

I need to show this video to my new horse. I swear that ditch is what he sees when I'm asking him to go up or down a sidewalk curb (he reacts the same way). I think he could learn from the comparison.

[TimelyImpulse]

Well, I cannot WAIT to hunt in Ireland! I am going to postpone until my nearly 8 yo son is old enough to really remember me, but after that, mud-n-ditches here I come!!!

Seriously though, we (at least those of us who hunt) have encountered all kinds of crazy terrain and footing and weird angles and weird animals (emus anyone?) while out hunting. And you know what, our horses get through it just fine. Even the formerly pampered, multi-thousand dollar ex-racers who had never negotiated anything more troublesome than the dirt path leading to the perfectly groomed racetrack, go out and learn how to handle themselves. My OTTBs love hunting. Love it. Ring work---not so much. But they do it because I ask them to, and they behave.

The Irish horses grow up in that environment. Just think if we let our horses here develop like that-- we wouldn't be drooling over Irish horses, they'd be drooling over ours!

[Alagirl]

Well, I cannot WAIT to hunt in Ireland! I am going to postpone until my nearly 8 yo son is old enough to really remember me, but after that, mud-n-ditches here I come!!!

[arabhorse2]

Dayum! I'd love to do that! But I'm a weenie rider, so don't have a chance in hell of hanging with those riders.

[Alagirl]

Dayum! I'd love to do that! But I'm a weenie rider, so don't have a chance in hell of hanging with those riders.

you just have to worry about hanging onto the back of your horse. I am sure he can find the way all by himself.

[SidesaddleRider]

As someone who only recently got back from hunting in Ireland -- in Ditch and Bank country (a/k/a, BIG FREAKIN' HUGE DRAINS) -- in a side-saddle no less, I can tell you that those horses LOVE their job. My husband couldn't STOP his 6 yr old/2nd season Irish hunter from jumping a drain that was far too wide to be jumped -- oops. They both got wet. The east coast of Ireland is WET and MUDDY. There are drains around EVERY field. It is the only way to make the land dry enough to plant. To follow the hounds, you jump the drains. Or metal farm gates. Or post and rail fences. Whatever. The horses and riders are amazing, and doing it is NORMAL for them. You can NOT force a horse to do this if they do not want to. You can encourage the green ones to teach them how to jump the ditch, but if they don't want to do it, trust me, they won't.

So just because you don't agree with their method of hunting, it does not make it cruel. It is everyone's opinion, just as I might think that people never riding their horse out of the ring, or turning their horses out, and just letting them be a horse, is cruel. I am sure a lot of show riders wouldn't agree -- but that is just my opinion.

If you haven't experienced it firsthand, making a wide-sweeping generalization off of one youtube video is pretty silly.

Here is a video of a double-drain that the field had to go over on our day of Irish hunting: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater. As you can see, no one is having to force their horse! Ears up and pricked, and eager to leap...

[arabhorse2]

you just have to worry about hanging onto the back of your horse. I am sure he can find the way all by himself.

Yeah, but I'd have to ride one of those Irish horses. JJ would fall over from shock, because he's as much of a weenie as I am!

[mp]

Here is a video of a double-drain that the field had to go over on our day of Irish hunting: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater. As you can see, no one is having to force their horse! Ears up and pricked, and eager to leap...

Is that you in the sidesadde? That is awesome!

Way way WAY too much for me. But as a friend of mine says, everyone's horse experience doesn't have to be the same.

re: the first video ... who needed confirmation that the Irish are crazy? And not just about horses.

[Alagirl]

Yeah, but I'd have to ride one of those Irish horses. JJ would fall over from shock, because he's as much of a weenie as I am!

of course!
I would not try that on on a non-native horse. You need a seasoned tour guide after all!

[Napoles]

As someone who only recently got back from hunting in Ireland -- in Ditch and Bank country (a/k/a, BIG FREAKIN' HUGE DRAINS) -- in a side-saddle no less, I can tell you that those horses LOVE their job. My husband couldn't STOP his 6 yr old/2nd season Irish hunter from jumping a drain that was far too wide to be jumped -- oops. They both got wet. The east coast of Ireland is WET and MUDDY. There are drains around EVERY field. It is the only way to make the land dry enough to plant. To follow the hounds, you jump the drains. Or metal farm gates. Or post and rail fences. Whatever. The horses and riders are amazing, and doing it is NORMAL for them. You can NOT force a horse to do this if they do not want to. You can encourage the green ones to teach them how to jump the ditch, but if they don't want to do it, trust me, they won't.

So just because you don't agree with their method of hunting, it does not make it cruel. It is everyone's opinion, just as I might think that people never riding their horse out of the ring, or turning their horses out, and just letting them be a horse, is cruel. I am sure a lot of show riders wouldn't agree -- but that is just my opinion.

If you haven't experienced it firsthand, making a wide-sweeping generalization off of one youtube video is pretty silly.

Here is a video of a double-drain that the field had to go over on our day of Irish hunting: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater. As you can see, no one is having to force their horse! Ears up and pricked, and eager to leap...

Thank you for this post Sidesaddlerider. You got a nice mention in the Irish Field paper last Sunday too.

[OveroHunter]

Well, when you are sitting on your grey horse that is flailing and struggling in the bank, you can be impressed with yourself that your horse WOULD take the leap for you, but it still does not answer the question of whether or not you should have asked in the first place.

There are a lot of things my horses would do for me that I would never ask them to. It's riding an animal whose fate depends entirely on you, not an episode of Jackass.

I completely agree. There are things I know my horse would do, but I would never ask him because the likelyhood of him getting hurt is pretty high.

To those who say their horses are having fun - plenty of horses are having fun when they run into things and tear their legs up. That pasture accident that turned your show horse into a lawn ornament was probably a blast for your horse until the last minute.

ETA: I am by no means against fox hunting I just think that ditch was ridiculous.

[SidesaddleRider]

Thank you for this post Sidesaddlerider. You got a nice mention in the Irish Field paper last Sunday too.

I know, but they put me down as a NON-RIDER, when it was DENISE and Caren that were the non-riders! Very annoying.

[carolprudm]

I completely agree. There are things I know my horse would do, but I would never ask him because the likelyhood of him getting hurt is pretty high.

To those who say their horses are having fun - plenty of horses are having fun when they run into things and tear their legs up. That pasture accident that turned your show horse into a lawn ornament was probably a blast for your horse until the last minute.

ETA: I am by no means against fox hunting I just think that ditch was ridiculous.

I had a mare die in a pasture accident. I still turn my horses out in the same pasture.

Pre broken ankle I would have ridden an Irish horse over that country in a heartbeat.

I'm glad I don't have to clean the tack though

[Alternative1]

I am sure the horses are fine, they probably go through stuff like that every week during hunt season. Looks like fun!

[Alternative1]

Oh good grief - do I hear violin music? Really? A FAMOUS individual? Not just a famous individual, but a VERY FAMOUS individual? And you had to ride in a hurricane, not just any hurricane, but the storm of the century? Were you riding a drama llama?

Just because others don't ride their horses in circles on a groomed surface does not make them abusive.

Again, get over yourself. I doubt you could keep up with one of those clubs. I doubt I could - but I'm not so full of myself I have to accuse others of abuse to mask my own inadequacies and fears.

It's Ireland. That's the topography and climate in which the horses exist. That is a fact. If you saw an Arab horse being ridden in the desert it would be no different. That is their normal. Deal with it.

Hahahaha Love this response!

[mp]

I'm glad I don't have to clean the tack though

Good point.