The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 34567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 132
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2000
    Location
    Upper Bucks County, PA
    Posts
    2,971

    Default

    A lot of good suggestions and advice on this thread.

    I wanted to share that I do use a "calming" supplement for my horse (pony)--Perfect Prep Training Day, which is a daily supplement (not the Perfect Prep paste products).

    My TB/Welsh 4-going-on-5 gelding, who acts like a TB but shows his pony side through his easy keeping abilities, great feet, and smart a$$ ponytude, had some issues last year with riding in groups of horses. It's one of those issues you deal with when you raise a foal on a small farm and then typically ride him by himself. A friend recommended Perfect Prep and I've used it since then.

    The key with a supplement is understanding that (1) they do not always work for your particular horse and (2) they don't make the underlying issues go away. I found that the supplement helped my guy focus and gave me a chance to ride him through the hinky moments without him completing forgetting I was on his back. However, he still has days (like yesterday in the freezing cold and coming back from 2 weeks off of work) where he's just full of it, marching to the beat of his own drum, and thinks he knows everything.

    I personally feel that you really need to deep down understand what is driving your horse's behavior--turnout, feed, weather, etc, just play a role in exacerbating what is already going on in his mind and body. Is it pain (eg, ulcers)? Confidence issues? Is he getting fitter and healthier and figuring out how athletic he is?

    Maybe I'm just odd but I spend a lot of time observing our horses outside, in their stalls, and interacting with each other and other people. Each one is so completely different and requires a customized approach to feed, turnout, riding/driving, etc.

    While my pony appears very confident, he is actually a bit insecure and uses his bravado to cover up his insecurity. All his training is built on increasing his confidence and keeping things simple on days when he's acting 2 instead of 4.

    For example, if he has sparks shooting out, I may just get on and walk around; when he's walking calmly and flat footed, I stop for the day and get off. Sometimes the lesson starts when he's coming in from turnout and bouncing around. I make him stop when I say, back away when I walk toward him, stay at my shoulder at the walk...basically, I provide a framework of "acceptable" versus "unacceptable" behavior so the lines are clearly defined, but I work from the simplest steps up. If he doesn't respect me on the ground, he won't respect me under saddle; if he can't behave at the walk, how can I expect him to behave at the trot?

    In addition, he's very smart, so our work is always varied--lots of playing with lateral work and transitions in the ring and hacking out as much as possible. I introduced him to fox hunting this winter and he adores it! He's learning that if I ask him to do something that (1) it is not an option and (2) I won't ask him to do anything he can't do.

    Therefore, the stable management aspect is geared toward his personality and "type." As I mentioned, he's an easy keeper so he gets Triple Crown Lite and the only other supplement is PP. He's on grass hay that we make ourselves. He does get turnout every day, less in the winter due to shorter days and also less space as we use sacrifice paddocks. This is one of the reasons I keep him in some type of work during winter...because he gets so bored otherwise! Summers he goes out at night on grass...and my biggest challenge is managing his weight and making sure he gets enough sleep (he's not a morning pony...he likes his nap before a ride LOL)!

    Our other ponies, well, like I said, they are all different. Our younger driving pony (6-year-old TB/Welsh) can be nervous and obviously lacked confidence when we began working with him. He likes a very consistent work schedule. When he's nervous, his "safety blanket" is a 20-meter circle and he stays there until he relaxes; then other things are slowly introduced. He's smart but not an overthinker, so there isn't the need to keep him as stimulated.

    His other "security blanket" includes being in harness with blinkers, which keeps outside stimuli to a minimum. You can almost hear him sigh with relief when he's hooked to a carriage and my husband gets in and gathers the reins--he knows what to expect and feels "safe" in that setting. Riding is much more stressful for him, but cross training is part of our program and we continue to figure out how to reach that same level of relaxation that he has driving while he's under saddle.

    He's also a harder keeper and prone to ulcers (after a tooth surgery that required large doses of NSAIDs while he was in the clinic). It took us a day or two to figure out what was wrong when he first developed them as he didn't show any classic ulcer symptoms...he just spent a lot of time running in the paddock and then had a meltdown under saddle. We finally had an "ah-ha" moment and started Gastrogard--new pony within two days. He'd been running "away" from the pain--the only way he could come up with to "deal" with the pain.

    We feed him Ultium, which I've used with success in another ulcer-prone TB. It is very calorically dense so you don't have to feed a lot of concentrate. In addition, of all the feeds I compared, it had the best balance of low starch/sugar level, high fiber, high fat, and lower protein, among other things. He also gets the supplement UGard. Finally, while the first pony prefers single turnout, this pony is only happy with his two donkey friends.

    I could go on and on, and already have, but I hope this provides some ideas and a different perspective. You may already "know" your horse, but do make sure you understand what is instigating his behavior. My first rule out is always pain, followed by innate personality/behavior, which dictates how they respond to pain, work, other horses, and their "humans." Once those are understood, the variables of stable management and riding can be adjusted to give the horse the best possibility of blossoming.

    P.S. I'm a huge proponent of long lining, but only recommend it if you can have someone show you how to properly do it. I took lessons for 6 months before the whole concept truly clicked. It is not simply "driving" from the ground or lunging with two lines...the lines are used to imitate more than just your rein aids. If issues start cropping up while riding, I always go back to the long lines to reestablish a good connection and instill confidence.
    Kelly Soldavin Harvest Moon Farm
    www.harvestmoonfarmpa.com



  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    If I was at the barn & saw the WS doing this, I'd be on the phone letting the trainer know that this WS was not to touch my horse.EVER. - this demonstrates seriously flawed judgement, that I would not believe would not eventually be applied to my horse ...
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did. Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    I had a horse (my own, thank goodness) go from standing still to flipped over and on her back - before I coul even blink - when she hit the end of a lip chain. Talk about a nightmare if said horse had been in an unenclosed area, now free and running loose with 30' of line trailing behind a chain fed through the gums.
    He gets a lip chain when we clip his face, so it's not like it was the first time he'd been introduced to it. He completely ignored the chain on his nose. When he hit the end of the lip chain, his demeanor immediately changed.



  3. #83
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KellyS View Post

    P.S. I'm a huge proponent of long lining, but only recommend it if you can have someone show you how to properly do it. I took lessons for 6 months before the whole concept truly clicked. It is not simply "driving" from the ground or lunging with two lines...the lines are used to imitate more than just your rein aids. If issues start cropping up while riding, I always go back to the long lines to reestablish a good connection and instill confidence.
    I ground drive him one every two weeks. It's my go-to for when he's had longer periods of time off. For instance, he'll be getting driven tomorrow, since he's had nearly a week off and only been hand walked thanks to the rain we've gotten.



  4. #84
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    10,321

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEPowell View Post
    Can you turn him out overnight in an indoor or riding ring? He really needs turn out.

    I 'm very reluctant to manage behavior with feed changes when dealing with tbs. They need high octane feed but they also need turn out. Not only do they play out some of that exuberance, they also learn about using their power and athleticism. They're all about space and movement. He may still bring you some challenges, but at least you'll be able to tell you're dealing with a learning curve and/or attitude and not a real need to just move around and feel exuberant.
    I don't think TBs need high octane feed. None of my four are on much more than great hay, sugar beet and a high fibre mix.

    OP, can you get out and give him a gallop now and again? I find that really helps with my lot. (And it's something we all enjoy!)
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!



  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    5,976

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did. Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.
    Well that certainly explains why you thought it an appropriate choice.

    But I'd for sure be at a different barn then

    I believe you stated there is a round pen or an arena without fencing - until your horse understands the lunge (& obviously trainer's horse does not either), please use the round pen: far safer for both of you.
    You might consider going back to straight up round penning (no line), then re-introduce the lunge line using a cavesson: once horse is good to lunge, introduce the bit into the cavesson & go on from there.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,312

    Default

    A trainer who routinely uses lip chains to WORK a horse and has multiple problem horses in her barn . . . kinda makes one wonder.
    Click here before you buy.


    11 members found this post helpful.

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2009
    Location
    Raeford, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,622

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.
    I realize you came on here looking for information about calming supplements and the thread has derailed a bit into training issues, but that statement scares the cr*p out of me. A "young, uncoordinated TB" (or any horse for that matter) should NOT be learning to lunge with a lip chain. Young, uncoordinated horses need time, strength and education. If he is routinely "getting away from her" than her training methods are clearly not conducive to a productive education.

    Lord knows I've had to resort to a lip chain a time or two during a Come To Jesus meeting about loading on the trailer, future loads were promptly met with a Yes Ma'am. There is a time and place for nearly everything, the lunge line is not the time or the place.

    If you want to try the calmer then try it. You didn't need anyone's permission and generally speaking most threads about calmers quickly transform into threads about training.

    I feel for your predicament, I really do. With your horse it might be all-in or all-out. Either give him the rest of the winter off and pick back up when you can devote daily time to his education, or make some serious changes now. Your and his safety is paramount.

    No snarkiness intended, but is there ANY other trainer situations you can look into? Using the above mentioned techniques and referring to her horse as Spawn of Satan does not give out warm fuzzies. Of course, that's probably my pet peeve talking; I go soft for the horse when their nicknames imply that it is a horse problem when usually it is a trainer problem.
    "Drawing on my fine command of the English language, I said nothing" - Robert Benchley
    Cotton would fight.
    http://buildingthegrove.blogspot.com/


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,889

    Default

    I second using a round pen for the lunging, I understand your trainer did it as well but imagine what would happen if he got away from you. Really picture it, because I am seeing some carnage when I do. You guys have no other way of fixing this without resorting to that? I am sure you have more tools in your tool box.

    I am not a big NH person but round penning with lots of changes of direction etc to constantly keep his focus and work on voice commands would do so much for you I think. Sounds like he needs to learn that lunging is thinking time not gallop around like a freak time. This isn't your fault he is just excited but I think this would really help you work on his listening skills.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
    Location
    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    1,661

    Default

    I agree! And if the bag is not opened, then return it. And if it is, just stop using it. That stuff is very high octane!

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadow36 View Post
    OMG: 2# of Calf Manna - no wonder why he's high as a kite. I would donate the new bag to a needy horse and switch to something else, like rice bran, ASAP!

    Is the arena fenced? Try free lunging/chasing him around in there before your ride, untacked.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
    Posts
    8,041

    Default

    I've never fed Calf Manna but given what people here have said, I'd probably try to stop feeding it even if the bag has been open.

    I have never heard of lunging a horse with a lip chain. I've been around a lot of trainers and re-started 4 OTTBs myself. I don't have a fenced in arena or a round pen but I have never, thank goodness, felt I had to resort to a lip chain to exert control. It would really give me pause to see a trainer who used a lip chain to lunge.

    I feel badly for you and for your horse. Not every horse will thrive in every environment and it sounds like your horse needs more turnout and/or more riding out. Not every horse does, but not every horse can stay sane without it.

    Calming agents can help a bit, but probably not as much as you want them to. If a horse is deficient in magnesium, you may find that one with magnesium might help. SmartPak Ultra has a range of ingredients that are supposed to work. Valerium does have a calming effect but it will test and is illegal so don't use it if you show.

    Honestly, if you have to resort to a lip chain, why don't you just give your horse a cc of Ace. It's probably a better solution.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2012
    Posts
    109

    Default

    OP,
    I feel for your situation. I'm in California w a TB and I experienced the years of green and HIGH with mine - thankfully we both managed to become a few years older. There has been a lot of good advice given to you here, please take it as its intended and heed some of it.

    I'd like to repeat - longing with a lip chain is a NoNoNo. If your trainer does it then she simply isn't a good trainer. I have also spent time with a bad trainer - she was bad for me and bad for my horse. I tried to justify how bad things were going with her for two years, and that meant I had to believe her story that my horse was 'bad.' Years later I'm still unraveling the crap she did, but the good news is that I did leave her. The only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. Consider the 'help' your trainer is giving you and make the right decision for your horse because you come second.

    Also, the very last thing your horse needs (other than longing with a lip chain) is the fuel you're feeding it. If you want something that keeps the lbs on then try rice bran. My TB has been on a mix of grass hay pellets, rice bran and supplements thrown in for years. Oh, and of course grass hay. She's shiny and a good weight. I have a gut feeling that the food you've chosen, and again I know it's probably coming from your trainer makes absolutely no sense given that you can't work consistently right now.

    My final thought for you is a short story - because of work I didn't make it to the barn until 9:30 last night. The best I could manage was a 20 minute hand walk. As I put her away I was considering what I would do with her today because she received so little exercise yesterday (btw, she has a stall/paddock situation so she can move during the day but not much). Even though she's older than your guy I have to consider whether I need to offer her a different program today in case she's high or just tight. What she's taught me through the last several years is that if I am willing to change my plan with her because the rest of my life impacted her schedule & exercise then we're both far happier.

    Your horse is telling you several things right now. The really big question that you have to think about is when are you going to be ready and able to listen? That's not a pass/fail situation, it's how we grow as horse people; it's how our true skills with horses evolve over time. When you're ready you'll view your current predicament differently.

    Best of luck and I hope all turns out well for you.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2012
    Posts
    109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did.
    I forgot to mention that if a young horse is being longed in a bit and a nose chain, and made contact with all that hardware in a heavy or strong manner it is quite likely that it was afraid of all of the pain and started pulling away blindly. Have you seen a truly scared horse 'fight' what it thinks is hurting it and bolt? Unfortunately the situation you described is 99% attributable to the trainer.

    Then the horse is given the nick name Spawn of Satan? Someone is projecting.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  13. #93
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,446

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did. Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.



    He gets a lip chain when we clip his face, so it's not like it was the first time he'd been introduced to it. He completely ignored the chain on his nose. When he hit the end of the lip chain, his demeanor immediately changed.


    Trainer FAIL.

    Get away from this ignoramus NOW. It sounds like the entire barn, or at least your and her personal horses, need *more turnout*. Or a better feeding program, management system, work schedule....

    The horse I had flip? She'd been introduced to the chain before too. I see you've already made up your mind that this is a good and necessary decision, but let me repeat it one more time before you do irreparable damage to your poor horses' faces:

    A LIP CHAIN IS NEVER TO BE USED ON THE LUNGE LINE.

    If you have to resort to things like this, you are doing something wrong, and one of these times, it's going to catch up to you. Hopefully in some less significant way than literally ripping the poor horse's face off when he gets tangled up in the line. And how, pray tell, did your dear trainer manage to attached a nose, and then lip chain, while the horse was bridled?
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Aug. 19, 2012
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    290

    Default

    Lip chains are a form of restraint, NOT a training technique.

    To longe one in a lip chain wouldn't even put pressure on the proper parts of his face to help him understand what is expected of him.

    If this is the sort of technique you are learning in the working student program, I would be looking for another working student program (maybe one with a trainer that turns out daily?)

    There is no shame in saying you disagree with the way the trainer does things, and walking away.



  15. #95
    Join Date
    Jun. 25, 2004
    Location
    Carolinas
    Posts
    4,286

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    Trainer FAIL.

    Get away from this ignoramus NOW. It sounds like the entire barn, or at least your and her personal horses, need *more turnout*. Or a better feeding program, management system, work schedule....

    The horse I had flip? She'd been introduced to the chain before too. I see you've already made up your mind that this is a good and necessary decision, but let me repeat it one more time before you do irreparable damage to your poor horses' faces:

    A LIP CHAIN IS NEVER TO BE USED ON THE LUNGE LINE.

    If you have to resort to things like this, you are doing something wrong, and one of these times, it's going to catch up to you. Hopefully in some less significant way than literally ripping the poor horse's face off when he gets tangled up in the line. And how, pray tell, did your dear trainer manage to attached a nose, and then lip chain, while the horse was bridled?
    Totally agree. This instructor has a very limited "tool box" of riding/training skills. You should leave this situation as quickly as possible. Learn from this when you look for another WS situation. Drop in on the desired barns for about a month to get a better vision of how the horses are handled, lessons are taught and the quality of everything. The facilities must be clean, safe and well-kept.
    Good Luck.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
    Courtesy my cousin Tim


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Middleburg, VA
    Posts
    12,469

    Default

    I have lunged some really, seriously, horribly obnoxious, dumbass horses. I have NEVER resorted to a lip chain (a last ditch effort for restraint, in my book, and to be used with VERY soft, consistent pressure in addition to a lead hooked normally, so you can throw the lip chain away if all hell breaks loose and you need to keep hold of the horse). I RARELY even use a chain over their nose.

    I'm having one of those days where I feel surrounded by bad horsepeople. This thread (OP's comments, I mean) isn't helping to restore my faith in the industry.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  17. #97
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
    Posts
    88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    I've taken over ownership of the big TB I started working with last spring, and am SERIOUSLY excited about his potential.

    After moving him to my trainer's barn, pumping him full of food-stuffs, and putting him into a work program, he has gotten back up to fightin' weight, has muscled up, and is building a nice topline. He looks and feels amazing, even with a swollen leg last week due to a tantrum in the turnout over a mare.

    However. Now that he is healthy and feeling good, he is realizing just how big, and how good he is feeling. On the ground he is still a model citizen 90% of the time. The one thing that we can't fix (we've tried everything) is head bobbing when he gets bored, anxious, wants to be fed, or has been in the cross ties for longer than he appreciates. We believe it is a habit he picked up at the track. Previous owner told me he has always done it, but I digress. Under saddle, however...is hit or miss. One day he will be quiet, focused, and just amazing. The next he is throwing a temper tantrum because I am insisting he carry himself properly, pay attention, and not canter like a giraffe. He is significantly hotter when the temps dip. He is getting as much turn out as we can do...two scheduled days a week, but I toss him out whenever I can as well.

    We had a bad ride last night (how dare I make him work when its close to feeding time) and this morning (OMG my girlfriends are in the pasture next to the arena!), and I was ready to brain him with my whip every time he threw his head up. He has been adjusted by the chiro recently and his next appt is in a month. He just had his teeth done, and they were pretty icky. We have played around with his feed, but since he was quiet before the temps dropped on the same amount/supplements, we don't believe that is the root of the problem.

    In a minor lapse of self-control, I picked up a small bucket of Vita-Calm at the feed store. I know it will test, but we are a LONG way from worrying about that. I am just desperate to have two rides, IN A ROW, where I feel that he is the same horse he was in warmer weather. Is that too much to ask?! Am I jumping the gun by buying a calming supplement? Should I wonder about ulcers? My vet suggested getting his testosterone levels tested because he does act a little studlier than normal geldings. He will randomly throw a "toss my head and strike" when he gets REALLY pissed that I'm asking him to work, so she may be on to something...

    Anyway. Sorry for the novel. Opinions? Suggestions?

    His current feed is 5lbs of TC Senior, 1lb Calf manna, 8,000mg Glucosamine, and about 25-30lbs of Orchard/Bermuda grass hay.
    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    forgive mistakes I'm on my phone.

    there is now way to give him more turnout, let alone 24/7. he is in the biggest corral on the property and stands in the same corner. he is in a routine, but I refuse to let him dictate when he gets ridden, especially since there are 12 horses in the schedule. he was born in socal, so this fact that he gets two days and more is a lot. I know most of you fwnt fathom that....neither could I when I first moves here. I still hate it. he is 8, but only been under saddle since May.

    tc Sr is the highest fat and fiber beep based grain available and love it. like i said he has been on it even before the hot streak.

    we also have limited trail space. as in none. our trails are basically the back roads, and with a full work load of horses getting him out doesn't happen. I know I need to change that, but time is tight right now for many many reasons. I do have.poles set up and we do different exercises in the ring. I suspect he actually needs more work. we were jumping once q week, until everything seemed to go to hell at once and the schedule got all out of whack. I don't want to jump him when he is being q jackass bc I don't want him to associate the two.

    keep the ideas coming!
    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    I'm not trying to shoot everyone's ideas down. I am not wanting to pull him off his grain, or switch it because I can see the results of it, and it is the highest quality grain in our area that I can afford.

    As for riding him before I ride other horses...not easy when you're a working student who gets paid for riding the other horses, not your own. My trainer is very accommodating and understanding, but we still have a lot of other horses to work with. Every horse is scheduled in a certain order to make it easier for us and the barn worker, so sometimes he will get ridden first, sometimes last. We have three turnouts, and 16 horses on the property that need to be turned out. Two of the 16 HAVE to get out every day for medical reasons. Six horses get turned out per day, for 4-5 hours each. Is it absolutely ideal? No, but its the best we can do with what we have, which is why if I end up riding him in the evening or later in the afternoon I am able to give him an extra half-hour, or hour, of TO.

    The only access we have to fields is to haul out, and since I have to rely on Trainer to take us places, I'm a bit ham-stringed. I don't ask him every single ride to perform difficult things. One day will be a dressage school, the next is trot sets, day off, then another dressage school, then (used to be) jump school. As of recent it has turned into a dealer's choice. Believe me, I'm frustrated that I don't have access to conditioning hills. However, it is the price I pay for convenience. When I boarded him somewhere else, he was getting ridden twice, maybe three times a week, and turnout was for fifteen minutes at a time.

    The jumping/jackass connection is harder to explain. Trainer has a 5yr old that has recently turned into the Spawn of Satan. She jumped him a couple of times while he was at the height of his nincompoopery, and now just cantering over poles sets him off. Also, I haven't been jumping my guy very long, so we're not doing 'big' jumps yet.

    I ground drive him once every two weeks, and whenever I lunge him it IS bitted. He was introduced to a lip chain the other night, actually, because even WITH a bit in his mouth he was dragging me across the arena and charging around like a loon.

    We don't have lights, or an indoor, and I have ridden at dusk several times (hence the feeding time fit), so until days get longer we are limited. Issues with DH has limited barn time on weekends as well.

    Let me reiterate...I *agree* that getting out, as in OUT, would help a lot. However, at this point in time, it is just not available. Am I willing to change that eventually? Absolutely. I mean come on...everyone has had at least one time in their life where it felt like everything was crashing down on their head??

    But after looking into signs of ulcers, I'm tempted to do a round of pop rocks. Intermittent loose stools? Check. Erratic day-to-day behavior? Check. Poor coat? Kinda-sorta...could be shinier. Plus we just Power Packed him, which (thanks to the all-knowing JB) I learned can leave little mini-ulcers if he had a significant worm load.

    I don't mean to sound standoffish...I truly don't. I know he's still young and green and needs hours/miles, but I was thinking that until my days free up a bit and I AM able to get him out, that perhaps the Vita-Calm might make life a bit easier for both of us. Does that make sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Thank you. We're going to cut him down to 4lbs of grain (I know, not a big jump, but its a start) and see what happens. But the weather has been SO crazy....70's for three days, 50's for four, rinse and repeat. 50's doesn't sound cold, but when you're used to 70 it sure is!
    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Honestly, I *do* appreciate the advice. I apologize for getting defensive, but it did start to feel like an attack when I kept reading "Sell him".

    There is a 60' round pen that I can free lunge him in, but the arena is not fenced, so chasing him around in there probably won't work, lol. I DO NOT lunge him in a lip chain. That was the first, and hopefully last, time I introduced it, and it was a very quick manners lesson. As soon as he tried to pull and take off I just held fast and let him figure it out, which he did. I prefer not to let them be fools on the lunge either, but I'm sure you can tell that since I had to resort to a lip chain, that battle went to the bottom of the totem pole.

    One of his days of TO he goes out with my other horse. Our TO's are two very small pastures (as in, under a half acre each) and a dirt lot. Since it has rained since Thursday night, hand-walking seems to be on the agenda this week. The roads are HORRIBLE (the dirt roads, anyway) and the footing at all nearby conditioning places is even worse. So...another week of pulling my hair out.

    Regarding the CalfManna...we had him on 2lbs/day, then dropped him to 1lb/day. He seemed to calm down, but the weather also warmed up a bit. I literally bought a 25lb bag last week, and I really don't want to throw it away. When my trainer gets back we'll talk a little more, and pull him off of it a few days.

    Thanks all. I'll update in a week or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did. Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.



    He gets a lip chain when we clip his face, so it's not like it was the first time he'd been introduced to it. He completely ignored the chain on his nose. When he hit the end of the lip chain, his demeanor immediately changed.

    Just in case... OP's threads posts have a way of disappearing when she doesn't get the responses she wants.

    OP - up until this point, no one was attacking you, or telling you you should sell the horse.

    Having seen you ride this horse IRL - you should sell this horse. When you came on this board asking how to sell this horse quickly, everyone said you were lucky this wasn't your horse, to cut your losses and give him back to his owner. And instead you took him. You seem to have a cycle of posting looking for advice, making excuses as to why you can't actually use any of the advice, and then getting mad at everyone for "attacking" you.

    2 pounds of Calf Manna? No wonder he is high as a kite!! You (and quite possibly your trainer from the sounds of things) don't have the tools or the knowledge to help this guy become a solid citizen. Lunging in a lip chain? Especially a horse that has already learned to take off and run around with the lunge line trailing behind him (trainers horse)? When you have a fenced round pen? That is just asking for a disaster. A bit AND a nose chain? I would pull blindly away from that too.

    Your horses aren't trying to piss you off. They aren't bad because they think it's fun. They don't understand what you are asking, and then you get angry and take it out on them, and they can never find the right answer. I'd get frustrated with that pretty quick. Adding a high energy feed like Calf Manna isn't helping the mix. There are lots of ways to put weight on a horse without adding energy - beat pulp and rice bran have worked great for me with my OTTBs. Other posters have given you suggestions on that too. Have you ever brought along an OTTB before?

    There are lots of really good, knowledgable event trainers in your area, and many with lots of experience bringing along OTTBs. If you want to keep going with this guy, you should seek one of them out.

    I'm sure this post is going to insight a livid response, but maybe it will at least make you reconsider things for your horses sake.
    Last edited by hAlterHorse; Jan. 29, 2013 at 01:55 PM.


    7 members found this post helpful.

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    11,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well considering my trainer had to resort to this with her Spawn of Satan horse last week after he pulled away from her not once, not twice, but THREE times, including going through a nose chain two of the three times, with a bit in his mouth...she agreed with what I did. Watching a young, uncoordinated TB gallop around a small property with a lunge line flying behind him was pretty damn scary.
    yes that is scary....but what it tells me is that neither of you are all that good at lunging a horse. And these two horses need a very experienced person in ground work and lunged in an enclosed area. It isn't a chain that lets you lunge and hold on to the wild ones...it is timing and leverage. You have to be VERY quick to move your feet so that you stay at the right angle with them so they do not get the leverage to pull away. You have to have timing in your use of the lunge whip to keep them turning and on the circle. You need to have a soft consistent connection with them on the line, like you do with reins. You need to release and reward as fast if not faster than you correct. It is your body language that influences, keeps them out stops them etc. And most TBs are VERY sensitive to this....It is why I personally love them.

    It is a skill set that unfortunately, not a lot of people have. It has nothing to do with riding skills....but knowing how to lunge a difficult horse is a different skill. One worth getting but will be harder for you if your trainer is also lacking in this area.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,312

    Default

    When you came on this board asking how to sell this horse quickly, everyone said you were lucky this wasn't your horse, to cut your losses and give him back to his owner. And instead you took him.
    This is that SAME horse? Oy vey.

    May I just say that I would nevereverever want to be young and on a public bulletin board going through this type of thing? A lot of the growing pains I went through trying to figure out horses and horsemanship 25 years ago? NOT what I'd want shared on COTH.

    So with the wisdom and perspective of long years I guess I can put myself in the OP's shoes: unlimited desire, very limited options, haven't been there/done that very much, etc. I've been there, done that, and probably some horses would have been better off without me being there and doing that. So I'm not going to completely crucify the OP. But I'm also not going to endorse the string of mistakes being made, either.
    Click here before you buy.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2001
    Posts
    6,676

    Default

    Lunging/long lining high strung TB is like flying a kite in a hurricane. You never know where you will end up, but you will make great time getting there! Instead of control, enjoy the ride and practice land skiing. Be sure to wear shoes with small treads.

    The KEY to TBs, my opinion, is NEVER try to CONTROL them. Lip chains in the wrong hands (literally), etc. just make bad things worse and can destroy the necessary independence needed for a great event horse.


    5 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Horsemans edge pellets
    By hunterrider33 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Feb. 9, 2011, 09:49 PM
  2. Strategy Healthy Edge
    By vineyridge in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: Nov. 24, 2010, 03:22 PM
  3. Fitted Pad with fleece edge only?
    By pattnic in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Oct. 1, 2010, 03:42 PM
  4. Easyboot EDGE - anyone used it on ice/snow?
    By outridin' in forum Endurance and Trail Riding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Dec. 30, 2009, 01:09 PM
  5. Horseman's Edge feed
    By skyy in forum Off Course
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Aug. 24, 2009, 01:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness