The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 4 of 7 FirstFirst ... 23456 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 132
  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jan. 27, 2003
    Posts
    1,900

    Default

    I'm going through a similar experience with my horse, a 7 year old 3/4 tb x han. My horse had a 2000 mile move to a new area and was under weight before he left and lost more weight from the stress of the move.

    The area we're in has extremely cold weather (average daily highs of -25 to -40 degrees Celsius) so he has to be kept at a place with a heated arena. However "turnout" is a 10 by 15 pen, and it's frequently too cold for turnout at all.

    I started feeding my guy unlimited hay, with 3 times daily feedings of 1.5 lbs oats and 1.5 lbs of a complete pellet with 20% fat. He did well on this for about 2.5 weeks and was gaining weight nicely. Then his temperament changed and he was quite hot and threw a bucking fit that tossed me off and then he nearly flipped over backward on me (a normally dead quiet horse). So I cut his feed down to twice a day feeds as I wanted him to get enough extra calories for weight gain, but not be exploding on me. This worked well for another 3 weeks or so and he has gained weight to a nice ideal weight now and then same thing again, he started to get too hot again. So now I've halved the amount of grain he gets twice a day. We'll see how this works and if he starts to lose condition (I don't think he will) I can also up the grain a little bit more or try to find some better quality hay.


    Best of luck with your guy. I hope you get something figured out for him.



  2. #62
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Well I'm sure glad that some of the "advice" I'm getting is "Find him a new home". Quite frankly that pisses me off. I am TRYING to make his life better. I am TRYING to find potential answers to an issue I've been having lately. What, because of that I must be the wrong person for him and he needs someone else? Yes. I'm just a horrible horse owner.

    K. Rant over.

    Regarding the TO situation. We have tinkered with it. Every horse, except three, gets out 2 times a week. That is how they run the schedule, and it is not going to change. Every horse is not going to get out every day. Horses go out from about 8/9-12/1, 12/1-3/4. Working in an extra TO, be at night or sometime during the day, MAY BE possible. Regarding the "why don't you ask your trainer", she has about a million things on her plate right now, plus she's in another state. We have discussed his newfound hotness, hence the reason we tweaked his feed a bit. We also think it is mostly due to the weather, since it has been colder than normal. I haven't been able to discuss putting him out overnight because of her absence. I thought I would come on here and see if anyone had similar experiences and what they did.

    The hay quality is the best in the area. I AM willing to drop his feed down a bit, but without grain (and yes, there are some people saying "pull him off!"), he doesn't maintain.

    Regarding the "why can't you get out to do roads/tracks/etc", our barn is mainly dressage based, and unlike barns in other parts of the country, is IN town. Our back roads are all paved. There are some dirt roads near us, and honestly I AM worried about conditioning him and my other horse.

    I'm not going to drop the WS position. It has been invaluable to me as far as knowledge and experience go, and the perks are pretty damn awesome. I don't live on-site, and I'm not the one responsible for daily feeding and TO.

    I'm not saying I want to drug him so much he is stoned, 24/7. Like I said before, I was *thinking* that a calming supplement might be handy until the weather stabilizes and/or we can start going OUT. Although to be honest, our first ride out will probably be after a double dose of calmer, because I'm not a fan of getting dumped or having a shod horse throw a tantrum on pavement.

    I do think that I have gotten some great advice, but some of it feels like a personal attack, even though I'm trying to help my horse and I survive a rough patch. Geesh.



  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Beam Me Up View Post
    If the purpose of this thread is to seek permission to try the supplement as opposed to changing other stuff, try it. None of them work, (trust me--I speak from experience!) but if it makes you feel better to have tried it, I doubt it will hurt.

    You've gotten some great advice about feeding and turn-out that it sounds like you can't implement in your current situation.

    The only other thing you can control is your ride. Horses can be so sneaky about changing the subject and moving the goalposts without your noticing. I try to focus on this with myself and I still catch myself reacting to the tantrum rather than pushing on. What starts off as a conversation about leg-yield slowly becomes about head tossing, or spooking at deer, or the horses running in the field . . . if he's that distracted, he's not working hard enough. If you can maintain your focus on forward, on the aids, etc. and not let him sidetrack you into trying to correct the misbehaviors he may learn that he can't so easily derail your session by acting up. Easier said than done, of course.

    Agree with the masses that they go through a lot of stages and he will probably mature out of this.
    Thank you. We're going to cut him down to 4lbs of grain (I know, not a big jump, but its a start) and see what happens. But the weather has been SO crazy....70's for three days, 50's for four, rinse and repeat. 50's doesn't sound cold, but when you're used to 70 it sure is!



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2006
    Location
    Far far away
    Posts
    1,999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by runNjump86 View Post
    Well I'm sure glad that some of the "advice" I'm getting is "Find him a new home". Quite frankly that pisses me off. I am TRYING to make his life better. I am TRYING to find potential answers to an issue I've been having lately. What, because of that I must be the wrong person for him and he needs someone else? Yes. I'm just a horrible horse owner.

    K. Rant over.


    I'm not saying I want to drug him so much he is stoned, 24/7. Like I said before, I was *thinking* that a calming supplement might be handy until the weather stabilizes and/or we can start going OUT. Although to be honest, our first ride out will probably be after a double dose of calmer, because I'm not a fan of getting dumped or having a shod horse throw a tantrum on pavement.

    I do think that I have gotten some great advice, but some of it feels like a personal attack, even though I'm trying to help my horse and I survive a rough patch. Geesh.
    I'm sorry you've taken my and similar advice as a personal attack. I assure you mine was not offered as an attack. I think you're between a rock and a hard place with this horse and after thinking about the environment and scheduling you have to work with it was the best advice I could think to offer for for your sanity and safety and the horse's continued development.

    I did not respond to your desire to use a calming agent because I think that you'll still have the horse you have. Although I've never ridden a horse on ace, I'm currently hand walking a tb mare and using ace so I don't lose her. She's been on layup since last July and she's wild when we leave the barn. Even when on 2.5cc of ace she rears and levitates about 30% of the time she's handwalking. She's who she is, except the edge is dulled enough so that I don't lose her. I suspect your guy is the high powered type of tb who will be who he is regardless of the calming agent you use. But by all means try it if that's your only option but when you get on him be prepared for him to play.

    Regarding the weather: I really think the weather has little to do with his behavior. Reread and take to heart JLGriffiths post and Rayers post and all the other advice offered here on training. That's what this is about. This is what young tbs do, heck, I have a 9year old who does this.

    None of the posts were written to offend you. They were written by people who sincerely wanted to offer their help and experience.
    Last edited by SEPowell; Jan. 27, 2013 at 08:54 AM.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    I didn't read all of the posts, but in the past when I've boarded at barns with limited turnout, I've asked the BO if my horse can go out overnight. This way they are out every day, and this usually gives them at least a full 8 hours. You can add a turnout sheet/blanket in bad weather.

    Worked wonders for a handful of OTTB's in my care. It's especially nice to ride them first thing in the morning after they've been out partying all night.



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    The other thing that has worked for me when boarding at these limited turnout barns is to turn the horse loose in the arena or a small paddock prior to riding and chase them around a bit. 15 minutes or so. Try to keep them cantering and moving as much as possible. Then bring them in, groom, tack. When you get on you will have a much calmer horse.

    ETA: Replace the Calf Manna with rice bran pellets. Calf Manna is a known rocket fuel substance.



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    I thought I would come on here and see if anyone had similar experiences and what they did.
    And you have gotten 4 pages of similar experiences with multiple suggestions, each of which you have torpedoed and then gotten pissed off about. It does not make for long-term tolerance and patience among those from whom you are supposedly seeking advice. Make changes, not excuses. Not only do calming supplements NOT WORK, they perpetuate a delusion that horse behaviour can be managed by simply sprinkling something on its feed. You give him a double dose of calmer and take the same horse out and you are ASKING for trouble. Don't be shocked when it doesn't work.

    I'm not the one responsible for daily feeding and TO
    If this horse belongs to you, you ARE responsible for everything that happens to him.
    Click here before you buy.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
    Location
    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    2,036

    Default

    Wow, this thread has provided terrific advice and I appreciate all the advice that the OP has gotten. I hope she realizes how much thought and effort has gone into these posts. I have been in horses for a very long time and I still come away with new information.

    Calf Manna, as Meadow36, is extremely high in protein. I would definitely drop that and reduce the feed, adding fat for calories, where possible. The TC Senior is a wonderful feed that is already high in fat. With a hot horse that has trouble putting on weight, I have found that adding calories through fat, and not through protein and carbs, is advisable. But I'm no expert.

    And I second all the other terrific advice. Your horse is getting a lot of calorie input without enough calorie output. If you are brave enough, get him out and about, and lunge if possible. As for the turnout, I cannot imagine any of my horses remaining sane over a long period with such limited turnout. It's not about being TB (mine are all 1/2 or less TB). It's about energy and need for stimulation, and the natural habitat of a horse.

    I would NOT lunge with a lip chain. Use a stiff rope halter and use short, sharp "jerks" for corrections. I've yet to have a horse under 1800 lbs who could get away from me using this method. Don't allow him to lean/pull on the lunge.

    I am also all for allowing a horse to go forward and work and be stimluated when they are up. I truly don't mind a few bucks and crowhops, and ride all of mine with a neckstrap just for that reason. The key is when they start acting up, go FORWARD. This is very hard to do if you are feeling unsafe... but it is the only way, imo, to work through the silly/naughty behavior.

    Ulcers? Perhaps. Alfalfa hay is good as a preventative, along with Omeprazole. If you can't afford Ulcergard or Gastrogard, you can order the tubes from Canada for a fraction of the cost. The compound is not as effective as Gastro/Ulcergard, but it's still effective and you could just do a tube a day for a couple of weeks and see what happens.

    http://www.horseprerace.com/



    I second the opinion that the supplement won't make much difference. But I've seen those supplements do wonders via a placebo effect.

    The advice you are getting in this thread is terrific and coming from a true concern for you and your horse. No need to feel snarky. I really don't think anyone has meant it to be insulting.



  9. #69
    Join Date
    Aug. 19, 2012
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    339

    Default

    I second (third? Fourth? Eighteenth?) all those who have said you NEED to find a way to increase his turnout. Two days a week just doesn't cut it for 99.9% of OTTB's. As others have said, maybe the barn management would let you turn him out overnight? That will be your biggest help in getting him calm and focused.

    I don't agree with letting him "play" on the lunge line before riding. Lungeing is work, and the horse should be asked to focus and listen while on the lunge line ... Not rip and run and get his bucks out. Letting them do so, IMO, teaches bad habits. If you want to give him a chance to play and blow off steam before you ride, turn him loose in the arena (or outside) for that. I will sometimes lunge before riding, especially with a green horse that hasn't been worked in a while, but i still expect them to be paying attention, and if they want to blow up or run, I will correct them and let them know it's not the right time for that. If the foremost issue is that they just have way too much energy to focus in the first place, turnout is best.

    I have never seen calming supplements be of any benefit.



  10. #70
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2008
    Location
    Area II, the Blue Ridge Mountains
    Posts
    2,036

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticky Situation View Post
    I

    I don't agree with letting him "play" on the lunge line before riding. Lungeing is work, and the horse should be asked to focus and listen while on the lunge line ... Not rip and run and get his bucks out. Letting them do so, IMO, teaches bad habits. t.
    My philosophy on work on the lunge and in the arena: I do not allow playing, being silly etc in the arena and I don't let horses loose to run and buck about. That is their work area, not their play area. I do strongly encourage the OP to find another place to let him run around and be silly though. Any horse needs that outlet. I just don't like that outlet to be in the arena/work area.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,335

    Default

    Hey runNjump86- no criticism here, I used to do urban horsekeeping so I understand the challenges I used to live in the NYC suburbs and kept my horses with my trainer, think 100 horses on small acrerage. The horses would go out in small turnouts for 1-3 hours per day.

    I look back now and realize that many of the problems I thought were from lack of turnout were really wrong food. They all had food induced psychosis. I know you are looking at what your horse is eating, but sometimes it takes some experamenting to get the right food. For example, I recently had a very nice horse go crazy on carb guard. Go figure Some horses are super senstive to molasess too. So don't get too frustrated, keep trying!

    What I would do- what worked in the limited turnout, high calorie barn situation, is one day a week the horse got chased ("free lunged") in the ring. They must run around until they are a bit tired and their eye gets soft- a little like join up. TB's really need to run occasionally and this kept my guys sane. In a routine, where they were ridden 6 days a week, they would only need to get chased that first day of riding.

    I would do my post ride cool out walks through the subdivision next door to get them out of the ring a bit.

    And, I have one horse, that no matter what his food or turnout situation was (even all day big field) or his work schedule, simply needed 5 mins on the lunge line pre ride to get the bucks out. I have owned this horse now for 20 years, and that's just the way he is.

    Also, did your horse race and then sit for a few years? If so, you may have to remind him about his work ethic. Sometimes they forget with a few years off.

    Good luck!!!



  12. #72
    Join Date
    Sep. 11, 2011
    Location
    Area VI
    Posts
    1,766

    Default

    Honestly, I *do* appreciate the advice. I apologize for getting defensive, but it did start to feel like an attack when I kept reading "Sell him".

    There is a 60' round pen that I can free lunge him in, but the arena is not fenced, so chasing him around in there probably won't work, lol. I DO NOT lunge him in a lip chain. That was the first, and hopefully last, time I introduced it, and it was a very quick manners lesson. As soon as he tried to pull and take off I just held fast and let him figure it out, which he did. I prefer not to let them be fools on the lunge either, but I'm sure you can tell that since I had to resort to a lip chain, that battle went to the bottom of the totem pole.

    One of his days of TO he goes out with my other horse. Our TO's are two very small pastures (as in, under a half acre each) and a dirt lot. Since it has rained since Thursday night, hand-walking seems to be on the agenda this week. The roads are HORRIBLE (the dirt roads, anyway) and the footing at all nearby conditioning places is even worse. So...another week of pulling my hair out.

    Regarding the CalfManna...we had him on 2lbs/day, then dropped him to 1lb/day. He seemed to calm down, but the weather also warmed up a bit. I literally bought a 25lb bag last week, and I really don't want to throw it away. When my trainer gets back we'll talk a little more, and pull him off of it a few days.

    Thanks all. I'll update in a week or so.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,878

    Default

    Unless you change something - be it what he's eating, his turnout schedule or one of the other ideas mentioned - it's only going to get worse. If you absolutely HAD to lunge him with a lip chain this time, I suspect there is a bomb in there just waiting to go off.

    I know this is going to make you defensive again, but.... I would NEVER. Ever. EVER. put a horse on the lunge line with a lip chain. A chain over the nose, yes, but a lip chain is a dangerous thing to play with when you don't really have control over the situation from 30' away. Beyond dangerous, and asking for a gruesome accident.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    6 members found this post helpful.

  14. #74
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    385

    Default

    Since you are a working student at the barn then on days where he has no turnout can you get him out twice a day? Maybe once before the day gets started to longline, lunge or just hand walk and then once to ride?
    Sometime breaking up the stall time a little more even if it isn't hard work can help a lot.



  15. #75
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2002
    Posts
    2,290

    Default

    OMG: 2# of Calf Manna - no wonder why he's high as a kite. I would donate the new bag to a needy horse and switch to something else, like rice bran, ASAP!

    Is the arena fenced? Try free lunging/chasing him around in there before your ride, untacked.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2003
    Posts
    389

    Default

    In desperation I pulled my too-thin TB off all grain. He now gets beet pulp, a ration balancer, flax and a mix of first and second cut alfalfa which is really nice quality.

    I HATED doing it as I can't stand to have a thin horse under my care.

    He looks the best he ever has, and his behaviour (which was worse than your horse's is) improved a whopping 90%. Some of that could be attributed to his maturing, as he turned 7. I don't know, and I'm not going to change anything to see for sure. He looks really good, acts even better, and I am over the moon with him. He places very well both over fences and in the under-saddles.

    So if you are truly desperate then pull him off all grain and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised as I was.

    I have no clue if mine is now on a balanced diet or not, but as he looks and feels so good I am not changing a thing. He is not only quieter but seems happier and friendlier too.

    I wish you luck!



  17. #77
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2010
    Location
    Land of Enchantment
    Posts
    824

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ahbaumgardner View Post
    My philosophy on work on the lunge and in the arena: I do not allow playing, being silly etc in the arena and I don't let horses loose to run and buck about. That is their work area, not their play area. I do strongly encourage the OP to find another place to let him run around and be silly though. Any horse needs that outlet. I just don't like that outlet to be in the arena/work area.
    This^

    and this :
    Quote Originally Posted by Alice View Post
    In desperation I pulled my too-thin TB off all grain. He now gets beet pulp, a ration balancer, flax and a mix of first and second cut alfalfa which is really nice quality.

    I HATED doing it as I can't stand to have a thin horse under my care.

    He looks the best he ever has, and his behaviour (which was worse than your horse's is) improved a whopping 90%. Some of that could be attributed to his maturing, as he turned 7. I don't know, and I'm not going to change anything to see for sure. He looks really good, acts even better, and I am over the moon with him. He places very well both over fences and in the under-saddles.

    So if you are truly desperate then pull him off all grain and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised as I was.

    I have no clue if mine is now on a balanced diet or not, but as he looks and feels so good I am not changing a thing. He is not only quieter but seems happier and friendlier too.

    I wish you luck!

    I have a 6YO, very tall, WB-TB gelding and I feel your pain. There are several really good suggestions in this thread and I’m sure you have found them.

    We have no separate safe turn out at my barn. It’s a small country barn but the care is reliable so I’m there. I work with a woman who is very strong in NH and thanks to her my guy has learned a great deal of respect.
    That said he can still get very unreliable in windy weather or very cold weather with things blowing around. I’ve been bucked off and hurt in the beginning before I developed a plan, so I know.

    Here’s my plan: I do not turn him out in the big arena to run, buck and roll (the arena is for work only). I do use the round pen for this. I also do not let him run and buck on the lunge (lunging is for work only). This ideology has been our saving grace. When he does let out a buck or take off on the lunge, which he does, I use the NH technique I’ve learned to stop him – make him turn towards me (he needs to swing his hindquarters completely behind him and line up facing me) then I ask him to change direction. This gets his focus back and gets him going calmly again. Honestly you need to commit to whatever technique you feel good with and then stick with it. Use a helper or trainer in the beginning until your skills are solid. A few months spent on respect work in the beginning will save you a lifetime of frustration.

    On really windy or cold days (we have many temperature swings here in New Mexico) I may not ride him but instead just ground work, in-hand work, ground driving or lunge him.

    Most importantly he gets out every day. 2 days a week with t/o in the round pen – the rest of the week he works. I also try to take him places to work weather permitting.

    He gets mostly hay – hay here is a crap shoot as to what kind but basically its green alfalfa, stemmy alfalfa (not so protein packed), and sorgum grass (a non energy filler at lunch). The good stuff like bermuda, coastal or orchard grass is either non existent or $25/bale so we just work around that. The important thing is the hay we have is good quality, mold & pest free.

    He also gets Nutrena Safechoice, a cup of Stabilized rice bran, Probios and some Vit B on a daily basis. The Safechoice has been the only feed that doesn’t heat him up and I’ve tried several different solutions.

    Yes there are still some days when he is too up to ride. I’ll get on and really make him focus by doing walk-trot transistions right away. Throw in a few halt-trot transistions. Add some halts and turns on the haunches-trot off. Coupled with some half turns to change direction but on correct bend for one and counter bend for the other. Basically you get the picture…this works his mind and body, warms him up better and keeps me in the saddle.
    Best of luck to you and your horse!



  18. #78
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2010
    Location
    SE PA
    Posts
    392

    Default

    My experience of lunging a horse to take the edge off, was that I got a fitter and fitter horse and it would take me longer and longer to take the edge off. To the point where it didn't achieve it at all in the end.



  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz 57 View Post
    Unless you change something - be it what he's eating, his turnout schedule or one of the other ideas mentioned - it's only going to get worse. If you absolutely HAD to lunge him with a lip chain this time, I suspect there is a bomb in there just waiting to go off.

    I know this is going to make you defensive again, but.... I would NEVER. Ever. EVER. put a horse on the lunge line with a lip chain. A chain over the nose, yes, but a lip chain is a dangerous thing to play with when you don't really have control over the situation from 30' away. Beyond dangerous, and asking for a gruesome accident.
    If I was at the barn & saw the WS doing this, I'd be on the phone letting the trainer know that this WS was not to touch my horse.EVER. - this demonstrates seriously flawed judgement, that I would not believe would not eventually be applied to my horse ...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2002
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    5,878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    If I was at the barn & saw the WS doing this, I'd be on the phone letting the trainer know that this WS was not to touch my horse.EVER. - this demonstrates seriously flawed judgement, that I would not believe would not eventually be applied to my horse ...
    I had a horse (my own, thank goodness) go from standing still to flipped over and on her back - before I coul even blink - when she hit the end of a lip chain. Talk about a nightmare if said horse had been in an unenclosed area, now free and running loose with 30' of line trailing behind a chain fed through the gums.
    What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what
    lies with in us. - Emerson


    1 members found this post helpful.

Similar Threads

  1. Horsemans edge pellets
    By hunterrider33 in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: Feb. 9, 2011, 09:49 PM
  2. Strategy Healthy Edge
    By vineyridge in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: Nov. 24, 2010, 03:22 PM
  3. Fitted Pad with fleece edge only?
    By pattnic in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: Oct. 1, 2010, 03:42 PM
  4. Easyboot EDGE - anyone used it on ice/snow?
    By outridin' in forum Endurance and Trail Riding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Dec. 30, 2009, 01:09 PM
  5. Horseman's Edge feed
    By skyy in forum Off Course
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: Aug. 24, 2009, 01:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness