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  1. #1
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    Feb. 9, 2005
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    Default Culture and cytology for young maiden mare...yay or nay?

    3 year old maiden mare with intact hymen and normal build back there. Would you do a culture and cytology and why? Breeding will be AI.

    FWIW, I was thinking there was zero reason to do a biopsy at this age with no indication of trouble.

    Vet doesn't think it is entirely necessary, but is willing to spend my money as it won't hurt anything either and will give me peace of mind.

    What do you think? I don't want to spend money unnecessarily...
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  2. #2
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    Nope! I don't think it is necessary either.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    3 year old maiden mare with intact hymen and normal build back there. Would you do a culture and cytology and why? Breeding will be AI.
    Yup. Because it will be the cheapest investment you can make if the mare "does" have an infection. And remember that an intact hymen does not guarantee that she won't have an infection. Bacteria don't need a very big opening to get in and party. At the very least, do a cytology.

    FWIW, I was thinking there was zero reason to do a biopsy at this age with no indication of trouble.
    Agreed.

    Good luck!
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  4. #4
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    Talking

    Oh sure, two very experienced breeders giving me different opinions! LOL!
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  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    Oh sure, two very experienced breeders giving me different opinions! LOL!
    Yeah but mine is the right one !

    But seriously, if you're shipping semen in, one missed cycle and one round of shipping costs and one round with the vet will far outweigh the costs of a culture and cytology. But as you noted, it "is" your money and chances are good that you'll dodge the bullet by not doing it. Of course, if you don't do it and you don't dodge the bullet, it's gonna hurt! And I WILL say I told you so!
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity


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  6. #6
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    Default

    I would.

    But I come from the TB world where every maiden, and every mare without foal at side, is required to have a clean culture before she can be bred. Standard procedure in that industry because of live cover.
    “A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it.”
    ? Albert Einstein

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  7. #7
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    Jun. 9, 2008
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    Default

    I've seen maiden mares that came off the track with a Caslick's procedure in place have a Pseudomonas aeruginosa (and other) infection(s).

    If you're breeding only one or two mares, the c+c is a cheap investment. If you're breeding a dozen mares, the gamble of the savings becomes worthwhile.

    It's your call...


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  8. #8
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    FL
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    I learned the hard way to do a c&c.


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  9. #9
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    ALWAYS do it, maiden or many foals. It doesn't cost that much and it is MUCH better to be safe than sorry - and broke - and with no foal.
    Tranquility Farm - Proud breeder of Born in the USA Sport Horses, and Cob-sized Warmbloods
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    Yup. Because it will be the cheapest investment you can make if the mare "does" have an infection. And remember that an intact hymen does not guarantee that she won't have an infection. Bacteria don't need a very big opening to get in and party. At the very least, do a cytology.


    Agreed.

    Good luck!


    Do it, as Kathy says I have seen far too many maiden mares with infections to NOT recommend it.
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  11. #11
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    I will from now on ALWAYS check every mare (maiden or not) prior to breeding. I have learned that lesson the hard way and have lost quite a bit of money with that lesson (breeding a maiden mare!). So it is just the thing I do prior to breeding now, WAY cheaper in the long run!!



  12. #12
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    I can never remember this answer to this question: can you do a culture + cytology + treatment AND breed on the same cycle or do you necessarily "loose" a cycle to run your tests?
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  13. #13
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    Dec. 20, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by EquusMagnificus View Post
    I can never remember this answer to this question: can you do a culture + cytology + treatment AND breed on the same cycle or do you necessarily "loose" a cycle to run your tests?
    I think this depends on where you're at. With my vet, they have to send everything off for testing and it always seems to take close to a week to get the results back so we lose the cycle. I just start the cultures /cytology stuff early in the season so if necessary, we'll have time to treat and bred before it gets into late summer.



  14. #14
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    Nov. 27, 2009
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    Default

    So, if the lube, oil and filter check comes back positive, does that mean a possible two or maybe three cycles lost?

    When all comes back clean, do the first exams give you idea of when the next folicle comes ready to be serviced? I'm thinking of reproducing my mare, and will have to be AI... How do you get all of that started? This will be my first and and only breeding.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
    So, if the lube, oil and filter check comes back positive, does that mean a possible two or maybe three cycles lost?

    When all comes back clean, do the first exams give you idea of when the next folicle comes ready to be serviced? I'm thinking of reproducing my mare, and will have to be AI... How do you get all of that started? This will be my first and and only breeding.
    If I remember correctly we lost one cycle for infection treatment. Not multiple cycles. Someone correct me on this, but say the mare comes into heat mid-April (which how I'm supposed to tell without a male horse on the property is another issue--hopefully she's a hussy like her mom was and it's super obvious). Anyway, then the horse goes for the C&C and obviously you lose that cycle if you are waiting for results. I don't remember treatment taking a huge amount of time. In fact, with one breeding (the one I got the mare I'm talking about conceived on) the vet suspected an infection (we hadn't done a C&C--I know more now than I did then) and started the antibiotics as we did the 3rd and last breeding. She had a foal by her side that year and we did not do a C&C at the beginning of the season.

    Do you mean you are only trying one time this one season, or you are just trying one season? Jane, I would have a reproductive exam done if you haven't if she doesn't have a foal at her side and isn't a youngster.
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  16. #16
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    Default

    So you are going to breed your three year old? YAY. I am going to start mine in March, and make the call whether to breed her by the end of April.
    Yikes!



  17. #17
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    So you are going to breed your three year old? YAY. I am going to start mine in March, and make the call whether to breed her by the end of April.
    Yikes!



  18. #18
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    You can definitely culture/treat/breed on the same cycle. It does depend upon the turn-around time of the culture (if the cytology is positive), but in our practice we do our own cultures and antibiotic sensitivities. If the cytology is negative (which should NOT be a send out test, you should have results within a few minutes) then away you go with breeding. Remember that you can breed a mare that has an infection and still treat her AFTER breeding. In fact, you can treat up to 3 days post-ovulation and usually that is enough time to clear the infection. We most commonly treat and breed on the same cycle and the pregnancy rate is excellent (as long as there isn't something else going on).
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  19. #19
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    Now I have probably jinxed myself!

    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    Oh sure, two very experienced breeders giving me different opinions! LOL!
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  20. #20
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    Default

    Doing both C&C is a good way to start. If cost is an issue, then simply doing a culture on a maiden 3 yr old should suffice unless there are issues.

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