[eastendjumper]

Apologies in advance; I read the COTH articles about this, I think a Times article, and read (okay, skimmed) the posts here. I am not a member of USEF, I have never considered using any sort of injection, and haven't shown in 10 years.

Very qualified here huh?

Do we know what she injected the pony with yet? If so, was it illegal?

Playing devil's advocate here (extinguisher ready to go for the flames) but I was a vet tech for 3 years. When I was in training, I almost killed a horse by giving an IM injection IV. The meds that I thought I was giving are meant to be given over several minutes, this fact that I was giving it slowly, the fact that I stopped the injection when I thought the horse was reacting, and because a vet was within shouting distance to give something to counteract the meds saved the horses life. It was the worst night of my life, and even though it was over 10 years ago now I still have nightmares about it. I should have been fired. If the staff hadn't been amazing about it, I would have quit. If the horses owner had chosen to sue, I would have quit.

If what this woman was giving was illegal, she gets no sympathy from me. But if it is something that a lot of trainers give without consequence, I think it is fair to realize human errors happen all the time, its just that not all of them result in a horse dying. I feel horrible for the family and the little girl, what a horrible nightmare to be going through, but isn't there any wiggle room to justify a little forgiveness for this woman?

[HanoverJumper]

EM threatening to sue someone?

Inconceivable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58LpHBnvsI

I kinda love you.

[inca]

My insurance policy specifically excludes death caused by "Any Medication or Substance unless administered by a licensed veterinarian(or experienced personnel directed by the veterinarian) and certified by the veterinarian to have been of a prophylactic nature or necessitated by accident, disease, or illness;"

I guess this is where her claim that the necropsy results show he died of an underlying lung condition come in? I guess she probably did threaten to sue the insurance company if they didn't accept he died of this "lung condition" and they made a business decision not to spend the money to defend themselves against such a lawsuit.

It's just REALLY disheartening not to have this woman suffer severe consequences for her actions.

[Jumphigh83]

Having recently been turned down AFTER THE FACT to cover my horses' MRI ($2500) ("You're approved" "Ooops, no you're not") after acknowledging ROUTINE IA injections of HA ("Preexisting!!") I find this nothing short of unconscionable. Pay your premiums, do the right thing, get boned. Lie, subvert, obfuscate GET A REWARD!!! Rewarding doing the WRONG THING. Great. Just great.

[Jumphigh83]

Or should I say great American?

[mvp]

Holy cow. She ADMITS to "accidentally" putting the pony down yet collects on the pony's insurance. Unbelievable.

I imagine that the argument to the insurance company was the same one Mandarino made to the USEF. The ultimate cause of death was the "emergent lung disease" (and there's some weirdness in the story about how/when that was discovered in the necropsy.) The proximate cause of death was supposedly Mandarino's IV injection of something legal that reacted badly with the lung thing. I have no idea what drug could do that and how, so I leave that to the physiologists.

Sorting out these causes is probably what got the insurance company to pay and be done with it.

[horsegurl]

from

http://amberhillponies.com/Amber_Hil...o_v._USEF.html

To clarify, to date I have only asked for the following:

.......

3. A public apology must be issued by the USEF for their wrongdoing and mishandling of the Humble matter.

4. My daughter must be given an extra junior year as a result of the loss of money and points and the USEFs wrongdoing.

..........

Oh my god...I am sickened by this woman who should be BANNED FOR LIFE. How is it that the USEF "owes her"?

[Purepony]

Whether entitled to a settlement or not, by actively pursuing compensation for a death she admitted being responsible for, EM reduced the death of that poor pony to a business transaction. It may have been a legal choice but it was in extremely poor taste.

[grandprixjump]

ACCIDENTALLY kill horse at horseshow, refuse to cooperate with investigation, and collect insurance money. Eliminates the fraud charges....

[Carolinadreamin']

Will she finally give the money back to the person who leased the now dead pony? We know Mandarino reads everything posted about her, so let's see what her answer is to this question.

[MIKES MCS]

It is in the judges and the other competitors and trainers hands now... it is that simple .... The Amish have a quaint custom when one of their members does something they feel is not within the teachings of their church ..

[Limerick]

Whether entitled to a settlement or not, by actively pursuing compensation for a death she admitted being responsible for, EM reduced the death of that poor pony to a business transaction. It may have been a legal choice but it was in extremely poor taste.

According to the USEF hearing (I read the whole transcript) one of the first thing's Sue Sue's husband asked upon arriving at Devon was, "have you notified the insurance company?"

[MHM]

It is in the judges and the other competitors and trainers hands now... it is that simple.

Please don't try to pin it on the horse show judges. It is the judge's responsibility to treat all competitors fairly when they walk in the show ring.

[Midge]

It is in the judges and the other competitors and trainers hands now... it is that simple .... The Amish have a quaint custom when one of their members does something they feel is not within the teachings of their church ..

There's a good idea. Let's open up an already subjective judging system to things going on outside the ring, at different shows, in previous years, that we only heard about but did not witness.

I'm all for it.

[RugBug]

Whether entitled to a settlement or not, by actively pursuing compensation for a death she admitted being responsible for, EM reduced the death of that poor pony to a business transaction. It may have been a legal choice but it was in extremely poor taste.

Now, the logic on this does not follow. If anyone else but EM accidentally causes the death of their horse, they are "reducing the death to a business transaction" if they seek any insurance money?

I know it's hard to separate the emotion from this, but there are plenty of legitimate accidental deaths at the hands of owners and they are not automatically bad people for "actively pursue any compensation."

If you meant that EM shouldn't seek compensation because she "accidentally" killed the pony while illegally drugging it...then I agree.

[leyla25]

Please don't try to pin it on the horse show judges. It is the judge's responsibility to treat all competitors fairly when they walk in the show ring.

You got to be kidding if you think that actually goes on. There is nothing fair about judging most of the time. Why do you think people pay hefty fees to have a so called BNT stand at the ingate?

[myalter1]

I didnt read this whole thread.. do we know if the INsurance company actually paid her? Or do we just believe they did?

[Midge]

You got to be kidding if you think that actually goes on. There is nothing fair about judging most of the time. Why do you think people pay hefty fees to have a so called BNT stand at the ingate?

LOL!!!!!

[MHM]

You got to be kidding if you think that actually goes on. There is nothing fair about judging most of the time. Why do you think people pay hefty fees to have a so called BNT stand at the ingate?

I beg to differ.

I think judging is fair most of the time. I think people pay good trainers to receive the benefit of their good training abilities, which is how the trainers became big names in the first place, and why their riders are more likely to win.

The trainers weren't born famous. They became famous by producing successful horses and riders. The trainers continue to produce winners after they become famous.

[RugBug]

You got to be kidding if you think that actually goes on. There is nothing fair about judging most of the time. Why do you think people pay hefty fees to have a so called BNT stand at the ingate?

Um...people ride with BNTs because those BNTs usually know how to train to that level. They understand that details that many little, to no-name trainers do not.

For example: I ride with a lovely trainer. She's kind. She's honest, She's fair. She's in my budget. She, however, could not train me to be competitive in the AA hunter ring. She knows this. It has nothing to do with her not being a big enough name to stand at the ingate to get me ribbons. It has to do with her not having the skill set and knowledge base to train me to that level.

IMO, most people who insist that the ingate BNT is responsible for success of their clients, really don't understand the details involved with training/rider to that level.