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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,405

    Default Changing times in Hunter World: Anyone oldies buy investment horses for young pros?

    I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

    But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

    Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

    And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

    So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2003
    Posts
    917

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    I tried it - twice. A very good trainer/coach was "in charge" and the young pro rode the horses. One horse finished, as in lame, one year later and the other 2 years later. All the money gone bye bye and two horses toast. . Lack
    of horsemanship and care of animals. What a waste. NEVER again.

    Not sure if this is what used to happen. However most people say that the young investment horse is an urban myth.

    I would check out your young pro very carefully. Be very involved. Trust no one!!
    I would like to add that losing the money was pretty much accepted- the carnage came as quite a shock.
    Last edited by Dinah-do; Jan. 22, 2013 at 09:58 AM. Reason: spelling and last line


    1 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    D'oh, Dinah-do.

    That's a bad story. I know I didn't see/groom for the crippled horses belonging to the Good Clients, but I saw some happy ones. Was that "client is having one good day at one good show?" or were they happy with their pros in the long term. I didn't think to ask at the time.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2011
    Posts
    136

    Default

    My trainer always says there's no such thing as an investment horse. Always buy a horse assuming that you're going to lose money.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
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    15,405

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    Quote Originally Posted by MySuperExAlter View Post
    My trainer always says there's no such thing as an investment horse. Always buy a horse assuming that you're going to lose money.
    Yup.

    I should redefine what I meant: I mean a HO who buys a horse she knows she won't ride for a bit and pays a pro to train/show it. She writes checks and points to the one that's hers from the rail.

    That's enough money losing for me.... and that doesn't assume it goes belly up or doesn't get sold at the right time for the right price.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 14, 2003
    Location
    Windward Farm, Washougal, WA- our work in progress, our money pit, our home!
    Posts
    6,974

    Default

    The scenario you are describing happens all the time, frankly. I've done it...sure, I lightly hacked my young horses, but the trainer did all the 'heavy lifting' to get horse in the ring, experienced and ready for me to show--so I'm not sure what you are asking..are you saying you want a "made" horse to hop on, instead of "making it up" yourself? I don't think there's any shame to admitting I don't have the time, expertise or ability to bring along a talented young horse.
    Proud member of the "Don't rush to kill wildlife" clique!


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  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2012
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    328

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    It happens to my trainer all the time (although she's not a young pro) She has now enlisted me to be her rider for these horses when she can't ride/ wants to be on the ground/ needs someone else to show the older ammy's horse. Right now she has (I think) six clients making horses like this and its working out awesome for all of them
    My Horse Show Photography/ Blog



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2000
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    7,540

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    When I reached "that age" where I would rather watch my good horses perform than ride them, we switched to racehorses. Now I get the fun of breeding and having the foals and I don't kid myself that I could perform anywhere near the level that my current horses are capable of.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2007
    Location
    Northern Va
    Posts
    635

    Default

    I'm not old, but I bought a baby horse 2 and a half years ago that my trainer has been bringing along for me. She has done a great job and my girl has gone from a wild baby mare to getting ready to start the second year pre-greens in a month or so. She also carted me around the 2'6" ring three months post-baby last year and I am looking forward to finally getting to show her a little more this year.

    I didn't buy young with the specific intent of handing her over to a young pro to bring along, but I knew I wanted a nice horse and couldn't afford the already made up version. The 10 month hiatus from riding due to pregnancy ended up being a really great time of development and training for my horse.

    For reference, her very first horse show:

    http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Or...4&po=33&pc=141

    At Upperville this year (Pre-Greens):
    http://www.teresaramsay.com/details....679&pid=303022
    "A canter is the cure for every evil."



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2004
    Location
    Western WA
    Posts
    854

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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

    But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

    Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

    And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

    So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?

    I know a young pro I'd dearly love to provide a horse. But I just plain can't afford it - not with the costs and the mega-shows these days. I'm truly priced out. I've changed disciplines to something more affordable.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2009
    Posts
    1,329

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I am approaching that "certain age" where, in times of yore, an ammy like me would have started buying nice horses for a pro to sit on for a couple of years before I rode it.

    But! Hunters have changes so much within my lifetime, that I'm not sure I want to stay and pour in that amount of money.

    Then it occurred to me that the Admirable Old Ladies I saw doing this when I was a kid might have felt the same thing. E. g. the hunters of the 1990s weren't what they had come to love in the 1970s or so. Yet they stayed.

    And I thought, too, of the young pros I really like/trust and would dearly like to provide a nice horse for. I can see that they need that to get where they are going.

    So I'm torn. Can you patrons of the sport tell me how you do it?
    I don't think what you describe is going anywhere. Most of us busy ammies who buy something young will let our trainers steer the ship for a few years.

    What I wonder if you're asking (and what I DO think is decreasing) is the horse bought for the pro with no intention of being ridden by the owner. Not the young horse, but rather the more experienced fancy high level horse. The working hunter that would jump me out of the tack, for instance.

    If I had all the money in the world I'd buy my trainer the nicest Derby horse that money could by. But that doesn't happen too much any more. It's just too expensive!

    But as far as what you are specifically asking, about a young horse for a few years before mommy gets in the irons -- that's not going anywhere. in fact, it might be getting more common as a really great made horse is so expensive that most people now try to buy younger and spread that cost out over a few years of training rather than dumping it on the horse in the very beginning.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2008
    Location
    Virginia
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    1,315

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    I hope those people don't disappear - my talented rider will not get in the show ring much more without finding an owner who doesn't ride but wants to see her lovely animal go around. She's still a junior so she has a lot more classes open to her but the theme is the same. It is very difficult, and she is starting at the bottom willing to do the barn work and chores and hack things at home and put saddle hours on babies and greenies and anything that needs a tune up for someone else until she gets offered a ride in the show ring.
    Sorry to see xtranormal is gone
    For funnies, search youtube for horseyninjawarrior!

    Www.caringbridge.org/visit/mysecretgarden



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 5, 2003
    Posts
    917

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    IMO - the problem with buying a talented young rider a lovely young horse is that the young rider will still have to ride under a more experienced pro to get the very best education , program and support team that the wonderful horse needs to succeed. Your lovely investment horse ( or not investment horse) is going to be a schoolie for the young pro to climb the industry ladder with. Unless the young rider is close to being a finished rider you are better to get the best horse possible and give to the best rider possible. The risks are too high to take a hope for the best approach.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
    Posts
    444

    Default

    I buy young horses and train them myself. I take lessons and ride at a show barn, and pay for a trainer at the shows. The only problem I have had is that the young horses go through lots of "growing pains" and that can be expensive. So soundness is my biggest concern. That will lead to willingness. It is a gamble and they don't all turn out the way we'd like, but I enjoy the process (most of the time)



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2001
    Location
    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    11,490

    Default

    I know a couple of people who bought their "next" horses and turned them over to a pro to make up for them. In one case, the horse turned out beautifully and got sold before the owner ever got to really do much with it (but they were happy to get the $$,) and in the other case, the owner wound up with a very fancy horse she ultimately couldn't ride - it remained a "pro's horse." She's still paying the bills on that one and would like to sell it, but the pro has her boxed into a place where she'd basically have to leave the barn if she did so; there is a lot of pressure to continue to underwrite the pro's career on that horse, which has won quite a bit.

    In all my decades of riding and showing, there are a total of 2 H/J pros that I would hand over a young horse to with the intent of having it made up for me. One is a young jumper rider (who now only does sales horses,) and the other is now priced way beyond what I would be willing to spend on the adventure. But then, I am not (yet) at a point where I mind making up my own; I still really enjoy the process.
    Last edited by Lucassb; Jan. 23, 2013 at 10:11 AM. Reason: fix typo
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
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    444

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    Here's what I meant about "willingness"
    http://www.thehorse.com/articles/312...ngness-to-work



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