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  1. #121
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    Jan. 25, 2009
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    Default TO AZNATIVE

    I have ridden in Oracle, Catalina, and the Sonoita area. Those are very different elevations from where i live. The soil is completely different,"tighter" and it rains more. I have washes and caliche, very loose rocks on top of pavement hard soil. The rocks vary in size from dust to Mt Lemmon. They fill up the boots. The gravel wears out the boots and the skin under the gaiters.

    You are the one calling the Gloves crappy. I said they wear out too fast on this terrain to be affordable. Renegades wear out too fast, too.

    As far as diet, we all do the best we can and it doesn;t seem to make the hooves grow fast enough to ride on this terrain everyday. They certainly don't need trimming!!!

    As far as trimmers, I find it interesting that you say there aren't any good ones....do you think that could possibly be because horses around here need less trimming than the trimmers are doing?



  2. #122
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    Oct. 31, 2012
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    34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Burten View Post
    Why are you afraid?

    You are demonstrably incorrect. Question: Where does most of the expansion/contraction of any hoof, shod or barefoot, occur? Regardless, there is not, to my knowledge, even one scintilla of research that supports your preposterous claim. In fact, Dr. Jeff Thomason of Guelph University did a study that showed that a shoe does a better job of dissipating shock/concussion than a bare hoof does.

    It Depends.

    Whatever floats your boat. 'Course, it should be about the horse's needs, not yours, right?

    I'm very interested in the new Norwegian-produced Equine Fusion.......they seem like the absolute very best option on the market these days.
    And you know this because....? Perhaps you would provide us with the extensive market testing of all the products out there that you have done that enables you to make such a bold statement. Absent that, how about providing us with all the product comparison research undertaken by others under the same parameters.[/QUOTE]


    Jesus bloody christ. Abrasive much? If you had any interest in a good debate you'd keep the silly kindergarten style stabs to yourself and concentrate on the issue. "I'm afraid I ..." is a way of being polite. And "for me" doesn't indicate I'M wearing them, but that I've made the personal evaluated choice for my individual horse at the moment. That rather transpires from the sentence - how old are we, fourteen?
    I know this because? Laboratory AND market research is coming up with absolutely glowing results in every aspect of EqFu boots, except two points related to the nature of the sole: the soft soles wear more quickly than hard materials, and they aren't studdable. This research is being done on the Norwegian market, but it is valid research still. Why don't you bother to have a look at it yourself (Google is your friend), instead of indiscriminately attacking everything I say, kindergarten-style? The fact that EqFu hasn't come to the USA yet doesn't mean this part of the world isn't doing research.
    Equine portraits in oil and pencil at www.facebook.com/ecrklaveness


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  3. #123
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2001
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    15,232

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Perhaps not AS MUCH as barefoot would but isn't all hoof protection a trade off of some kind?
    Hasn't this been what I have been saying all along?



  4. #124
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    why are accusing me of having attitude?

    I think saying-really you don't have to 'buy' is far from attitude. I mean it. Just sharing and you can have an interest or ignore. Just fact. No attitude.

    I have seen the gloves. Thank you however for the link.

    And I am NOT talking about the closure. The SOLE is the issue. When the horse loads on the ground, his hoof does not receive the same feedback.

    That is the influence that dictates the ability of the bulbs to move independently.

    Heck that lack of feedback is probably why over-trimmed or chronically laminitic horses appear sound in boots! (OK that will get some emails to complain).
    Leah, We truly are talking about two different things then and I did feel like your last sentences on your last post was accusing me of ignoring you which is far from the truth or I'd not be involved in this discussion at all. No I don't agree that the sole of the boots prohibit the hoof from expansion nor distortion...they just aren't that tight to do that IMO...particularly the newer style boots. Of course, they don't receive the same feedback from the ground but that is changed by ANYTHING You put on their hooves. However, myself and another person BOTH feel that the Gloves gave our horses a better sense of the ground than wearing shoes did...as a result we both prefer the boots over shoes.

    What is the alternative that you suggest for protection? Rather nail on a rigid shoe to the hoof for weeks at a time? That would seem more loathsome by your thinking.

    I've said it a lot of times already that I admit that all tools have their advantages and limitations. Boots, shoes, casts, whatever...use what works for your horse.



  5. #125
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Hasn't this been what I have been saying all along?
    I think you hardly can take credit for this concept and you know it from my comments in my pm to you about riding barefoot on a good horse over rough ground earlier what my preference is...HOWEVER..being a realist, I know that I have to protect their hooves somehow when I take them from the soft wet sand they live on to a mountain top covered in rocks. I've also hopefully clear that I believe that all forms of hoof protection have advantages, disadvantages and limitations and that all people have the right to choose what works for their horse without being harassed for it.



  6. #126
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Port Charlotte, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecrklaveness View Post
    . . . A shoe contracts the hoof and doesn't allow it to expand upon contact with the ground and do its job as shock absorption. . . .
    If you bothered to keep up with published, peer reviewed mainstream hoof care science instead of parroting the fringe cult suppositions of "believers" you would know that this claim has been refuted by scientific testing and measurement.



  7. #127
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    My biggest problem with hoof boots is that they come in sizes that either fit or they do not fit and I seem to only ever own horses that they do not fit. Tried different styles and brands and they just did not work.



  8. #128
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Port Charlotte, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecrklaveness View Post
    . . .This research is being done on the Norwegian market, but it is valid research still.
    If you are into marketing, I agree that market research is valuable. Especially when you have a product to sell that has only supposition and no testable scientific data to support its claims. It is always best to perfect the shuck'n jive before a small audience before venturing into the big leagues.



  9. #129
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    I think you hardly can take credit for this concept and you know it from my comments in my pm to you about riding barefoot on a good horse over rough ground earlier what my preference is...HOWEVER..being a realist, I know that I have to protect their hooves somehow when I take them from the soft wet sand they live on to a mountain top covered in rocks. I've also hopefully clear that I believe that all forms of hoof protection have advantages, disadvantages and limitations and that all people have the right to choose what works for their horse without being harassed for it.
    Sharon, for some reason, you are making assumptions and reading into someone's comments things that are not there.

    *I* never claimed credit for the concept-I made a statement and you have argued with me only to end up agreeing with what I said and NOW say I should not take credit for the statement when I never made it sound like it was my latest discovery????

    I don't think anyone said hooves should not be protected. The conflict is because some assume boots are a healthier alternative to a correctly applied shoe.

    I and hank (and others that don't post) are in disagreement with that 'belief' and have explained why that is.

    I also don't see where anyone is 'harassing anyone.' This is another example of a statement that sort of leaps down the road from anything that was said.

    Hopefully that clears it up for you bit.



  10. #130
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Leah, We truly are talking about two different things then and I did feel like your last sentences on your last post was accusing me of ignoring you which is far from the truth or I'd not be involved in this discussion at all. No I don't agree that the sole of the boots prohibit the hoof from expansion nor distortion...they just aren't that tight to do that IMO...particularly the newer style boots. Of course, they don't receive the same feedback from the ground but that is changed by ANYTHING You put on their hooves. However, myself and another person BOTH feel that the Gloves gave our horses a better sense of the ground than wearing shoes did...as a result we both prefer the boots over shoes.

    What is the alternative that you suggest for protection? Rather nail on a rigid shoe to the hoof for weeks at a time? That would seem more loathsome by your thinking.

    I've said it a lot of times already that I admit that all tools have their advantages and limitations. Boots, shoes, casts, whatever...use what works for your horse.
    Geez Louise I have LMH on ignore and she still manages to annoy the hell out of me. Can we break the cycle and not feed the trolls? Or at least not have the pointless circular arguments?

    What would really be useful is EqTrainer coming back on here and explaining her method for trimming and casting heels.



  11. #131
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    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Port Charlotte, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Geez Louise I have LMH on ignore and she still manages to annoy the hell out of me.
    LMH I had no idea you had been promoted. Welcome!!! You do realize that having achieved this exclusive status of being on "the list" is not just a position of privilege and honor, but comes with certain responsibilities and obligations?



  12. #132
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    Sharon, for some reason, you are making assumptions and reading into someone's comments things that are not there.
    And you aren't making assumptions and reading into what I've written??? Perspective is everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I* never claimed credit for the concept-I made a statement and you have argued with me only to end up agreeing with what I said and NOW say I should not take credit for the statement when I never made it sound like it was my latest discovery????
    Sorry but the way you wrote it made it seem as if YOU had been saying this was so all along and no one else had. If you go back to my first post and last paragraph, I pretty much said the same thing regarding the use of all the tools we use on our horses hooves.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    don't think anyone said hooves should not be protected. The conflict is because some assume boots are a healthier alternative to a correctly applied shoe.
    See there you did it again. You said we "assume" it as if we are not using facts and good judgement in making our choices. I happen to KNOW that boots are better choice for my horses and that knowledge is the result of my own experiences and mileage and observing the results on my own horses. I accept that your mileage may vary from mine as does hanks and others but that doesn't mean that I automatically assume that you are wrong and just misguided or not thinking it through...as with everything, IT DEPENDS on many factors. hank has problems with his abrasive footing and debris, you don't like the boots for other reasons...whatever...I accept that we have different situations and what works for me may not work for hank or you. OK?

    It's that sort of attitude that I find offensive...like anyone who doesn't do as you do is only making an incorrect assumption. I realize horse people are the most opinionated people in the world but to have a productive conversation, we have to try and have some respect for other's choices and experience even if it's in conflict with our own.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I and hank (and others that don't post) are in disagreement with that 'belief' and have explained why that is.
    Well, myself and several others disagree with your "belief" and have explained why also. We just will have to agree to disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    also don't see where anyone is 'harassing anyone.' This is another example of a statement that sort of leaps down the road from anything that was said.

    Hopefully that clears it up for you bit.
    I hope this clears things up for you also. Just don't accuse people of ignoring what you are saying simply because they don't see it your way or agree with you. There's a difference...if I want to ignore you, I just won't post as I don't see the value of a reply....or I won't even read your posts like several folks I have on "ignore" already.



  13. #133
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    Feb. 28, 2001
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    Sharon, I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.



  14. #134
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    I give up Leah. I'm done. This is pointless.


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  15. #135
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    Feb. 18, 2006
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    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecrklaveness View Post
    Jesus bloody christ. Abrasive much?
    Nope, just refreshingly frank and earnest. Probably because I tend not to suffer fools or their foolishness much if at all.

    If you had any interest in a good debate you'd keep the silly kindergarten style stabs to yourself and concentrate on the issue.
    Perhaps if your reading comprehension were greater, you would have noted that I did concentrate on the issue. As for my "kindergarten style" if that's what it is, you earned it.

    "I'm afraid I ..." is a way of being polite. And "for me" doesn't indicate I'M wearing them, but that I've made the personal evaluated choice for my individual horse at the moment.
    ROTFL. Evaluated as compared to what and how many, and where?

    That rather transpires from the sentence - how old are we, fourteen?
    Speak for yourself.
    I know this because? Laboratory AND market research is coming up with absolutely glowing results in every aspect of EqFu boots, except two points related to the nature of the sole: the soft soles wear more quickly than hard materials, and they aren't studdable. This research is being done on the Norwegian market, but it is valid research still.
    Please direct me to said research and exactly who is doing it. Market research? You're kidding, right. A wise man once observed that "there's three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics...... Or is it that 'market research' is your euphenism for "testimonial(s)"?
    Why don't you bother to have a look at it yourself (Google is your friend), instead of indiscriminately attacking everything I say, kindergarten-style?
    Please refer back to my comment on fools and their foolishness....

    The fact that EqFu hasn't come to the USA yet doesn't mean this part of the world isn't doing research.
    Nor does it mean that any 'real' research is being conducted.

    Regardless, I do like the abbreviated word "EqFu" It some how seems quite appropriate.


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  16. #136
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    Apr. 22, 2006
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    ecrklaveness, a wise person once told me not to get in a pi$$ing contest with a skunk.
    "The captive bolt is not a proper tool for slaughter of equids they regain consciousness 30 seconds after being struck fully aware they are being vivisected." Dr Friedlander DVM & frmr Chief USDA Insp


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #137
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2007
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    Port Charlotte, FL
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    Goes well with, "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight."



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