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  1. #221
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    I've been a USEF member for over 20 years and I did send them a letter on this topic with my concerns and ideas. Unfortunately, I never received even so much as an acknowledgement that they received it.
    ******
    "A good horse and a good rider are only so in mutual trust."
    -H.M.E.


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  2. #222
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    I think that what people are saying is that maybe they should require more drug forms.

    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    There are many legal injectable substances that do not require a "drug form". Most owners are aware of that.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  3. #223
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    Ok... So going to be provocative here..... It seems like there is some objections to having to report all drugs administered at a show -legal or not-.....

    Not sure why.... Is it like those who object to gun control, you're not going to take my drugs away because it is my right to give my horse whatever I choose whenever I choose.

    Just asking... In a modern Information Age this information is easily acquired, secure, not a burden to anyone and available for aggregated analysis..... Non-compliance is an issue but not a reason not to do .... So just asking



  4. #224
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    I think that possibly requiring more med forms is a reasonable idea that should be discussed. Ambushing people acting completely legally and posting their photos online? Unreasonable.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  5. #225
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    Jul. 5, 2009
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    South of the Tennessee border
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    Like Horseymama, after I saw blatant drugging at the Pony Finals 3 yrs ago I called and wrote to USEF, I too was completely ignored. From that day forward I have avoided USEF shows, a level playing field needs to be established with zero drug tolerance and stiff penalties for rule breakers.


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  6. #226
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    Sep. 18, 2006
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    The bottom line is you can't police ethical behavior if someone wants to cheat they will cheat.

    I do think that it is kind of silly how some are saying they stopped showing because of the excess of "rule breakers". I compete because I love to... win or lose, I enjoy hanging out at shows and watching beautiful horses!

    I honestly think USEF will eventually do something about the situation but it is not something that is going to happen overnight. Just my 2 cents.


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  7. #227
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    I think that possibly requiring more med forms is a reasonable idea that should be discussed. Ambushing people acting completely legally and posting their photos online? Unreasonable.
    Ditto. IMO we can get some of this done but plastering things all over FB is not the way to go and, if anything, lessens chances for getting anything done at all.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  8. #228
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMF View Post
    The bottom line is you can't police ethical behavior if someone wants to cheat they will cheat.

    I do think that it is kind of silly how some are saying they stopped showing because of the excess of "rule breakers". I compete because I love to... win or lose, I enjoy hanging out at shows and watching beautiful horses!

    I honestly think USEF will eventually do something about the situation but it is not something that is going to happen overnight. Just my 2 cents.
    Actually it's not so silly... I know a number of young up and coming professionals who are questioning their career choice and their involvement in this sport because of what they have seen in the "treatment of horses". As young professionals they would prefer to work for established professionals and apprentice their way .... However, that means being at the least complicit in some of the drugging we are discussing here at many barns. On their own, they can run their programs the way they want but without personal resources its a very difficult road.

    The effect of drugging is negative and pervasive.


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  9. #229
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    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMF View Post
    The bottom line is you can't police ethical behavior if someone wants to cheat they will cheat.

    I do think that it is kind of silly how some are saying they stopped showing because of the excess of "rule breakers". I compete because I love to... win or lose, I enjoy hanging out at shows and watching beautiful horses!

    I honestly think USEF will eventually do something about the situation but it is not something that is going to happen overnight. Just my 2 cents.
    I think it's lovely that you can go and enjoy showing, win or lose, even if the playing field you are on is unlevel. More power to you.

    But for a lot of us, myself included, frankly I am only fine with winning or losing *as long as the people I am riding against aren't gaining an unfair advantage by cheating.* Otherwise, given the expense, frankly I'd rather go play somewhere else (which is what I've done.)

    I've had hunters for years and years and have shown everywhere from the locals to WEF with some success. However, I am very hands on owner, very fussy about my horse's care, and I've been around long enough to know "enough" about what goes on to be unwelcome in a lot of top programs.

    After spending a not so small fortune bringing along my last very nice young horse (with a trainer who does it right, without all the pharmaceutical shortcuts) I got tired of showing against people who were willing to "do whatever it took," to be the winner in the pre green or first year ring. We did win some prizes with that horse - a *naturally quiet* animal that was very suitable for the job, who has gone on to lots of success with his new owner - but it soured me to see all the "prep" that we competed against.

    After that, I decided to move down a notch or two to a trainer who does the "local A" shows, and who i'd known for years and years as an ethical, old school professional. Shortly after moving back to that barn, I found her using that Carolina Gold cr*p. She knew better than to try to convince me it wasn't cheating, and instead "explained" that no one wanted to do it the old/slow way anymore, and she simply couldn't afford to stay in business unless she was willing to do what her competition did to get an edge in the ring.

    In effect, she was arguing for a level playing field... just a dirty one.

    I quit the hunters entirely at that point, and went to a different discipline. I miss showing over fences, but I don't miss the scene itself at all.

    I wish I felt that the USEF would step up and fix this, but frankly given the quotes from the meeting where this issue is supposedly "center stage," (ie, maybe we'll give the trainers an open book quiz on the rules.... and maybe someday we'll even maybe think about having the official show VETS demonstrate they know the rules...) I ain't holding my breath.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


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  10. #230
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    Sep. 12, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by justathought View Post
    Actually it's not so silly... I know a number of young up and coming professionals who are questioning their career choice and their involvement in this sport because of what they have seen in the "treatment of horses". As young professionals they would prefer to work for established professionals and apprentice their way .... However, that means being at the least complicit in some of the drugging we are discussing here at many barns. On their own, they can run their programs the way they want but without personal resources its a very difficult road.

    The effect of drugging is negative and pervasive.
    Amen!



  11. #231
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    Sep. 18, 2006
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    I am all for a level playing field, BUT I won't stop having fun with my horse just because other people stoop to gross levels! I think its sad that you would stop doing something you love simply because other people will do crazy things to win. Maybe my view is such because I ride with a BNT who puts the horses first.

    I will again say that who we ride with is our choice and if you choose to ride with someone who uses methods or cocktails that you don't think is right for you then don't! Find someone who you think does it right.


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  12. #232
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    MMF, well said.

    Winning is nice, but if your horse goes great, the prizes are secondary.



  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMF View Post
    I am all for a level playing field, BUT I won't stop having fun with my horse just because other people stoop to gross levels! I think its sad that you would stop doing something you love simply because other people will do crazy things to win. Maybe my view is such because I ride with a BNT who puts the horses first.

    I will again say that who we ride with is our choice and if you choose to ride with someone who uses methods or cocktails that you don't think is right for you then don't! Find someone who you think does it right.
    I don't think I said I stopped having fun with my horse. I stopped spending tens of thousands of dollars to compete against people who were willing to cheat to win. There is a big difference. I can jump my horse around at home anytime I like if I just want to enjoy jumping a course and working on making it perfect.

    And for the record, I do ride with someone who I think "does it right," and that involved showing in a different discipline, which has been a blast.
    Last edited by Lucassb; Jan. 21, 2013 at 03:01 PM. Reason: fix typo
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


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  14. #234
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    Lucassb you seem really offended, I am not trying to offend anyone. It just seems like a lot of people commenting on the problems in the h/j horse show world don't even show anymore. 6 monthes ago people were saying they don't show anymore because they don't like the warmbloods and they don't like the pace people carry around a hunter course. People stop showing for lots of reasons. I guess I am just amazed how everyone is up in arms about something they aren't doing! ( I completely agree that USEF needs better tests but I don't think complaining on here is going to push USEF into doing anything) Again just my opinion.


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  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMF View Post
    Lucassb you seem really offended, I am not trying to offend anyone. It just seems like a lot of people commenting on the problems in the h/j horse show world don't even show anymore. 6 monthes ago people were saying they don't show anymore because they don't like the warmbloods and they don't like the pace people carry around a hunter course. People stop showing for lots of reasons. I guess I am just amazed how everyone is up in arms about something they aren't doing! ( I completely agree that USEF needs better tests but I don't think complaining on here is going to push USEF into doing anything) Again just my opinion.
    We can agree to disagree. I took issue with your statements that it was silly to stop showing just because a lot of people cheat and the intimation that because I quit showing hunters I shouldn't care about what goes on in that division.

    I spent close to six figures on my last real year of showing hunters (2010) and I don't think it's silly not to throw good money after bad; I think it's stupid to waste that kind of money if there isn't at least a semblance of a level playing field. (Oh, and I still show plenty. It just isn't in the hunter ring.)

    And I don't think I have to give up my opinion that the governing body of the sport should DO something to make it more fair and safer for the horses just because I don't want to blow a grand or two a week until they figure it out.

    In terms of the OP, that IS actually the message I think the USEF needs to hear.

    One of the reasons that the USEF ought to do something less pathetic than talk about an open book quiz is that there are lots of people (like me, I guess) who are so disgusted that we've taken our dollars elsewhere.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina


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  16. #236
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
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    It's often recommended that if people do not agree with something to vote with their feet/wallet.


    That isn't being offended or just giving up. It's no longer willing to promote and fund something you do not morally agree with, even if you enjoy whatever that something is. Like people who will boycott a certain brand they like if they learn something shady about the company.

    Those who have left the USEF have refused to financially support an organization that knows exactly how many tweak the rules or ignore them completely and play the chances against being tested and still refuses to implement any penalties with actual teeth. USEF prefers to turn a blind eye to the rampant rule breaking because the income and prestige is more important to them than the horses or riders.

    So many have quit that avenue of showing even though they did enjoy it...they put their money where their mouth was.

    And even many here defending the USEF or that think it's perfectly normal for horses to have a meds list that looks like the Merck catalog index have wonky outlooks on showing and medicating in general. The horse is *only* first when it comes to getting in a winning round.

    threads like this and others...*sigh*....sad. Lack of horsemanship, sportsmanship, empathy, animal welfare, ethics, etc.

    Here's some more opinions on ethics:
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...ight=duct+tape
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte


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  17. #237
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    Lucassb has posted on here often over years of her quest for a decent trainer in at least 2 or 3 states. Been disappointed be quite a few, some really well known plus this one she had trusted for years and recently went back to after relocating. Some have been very well known, well recommended and none were priced on the lower end.

    My personal favorite was the one who "fired" her at Lake Placid leaving her and the horse(s) with no ride home.

    I think she has the qualifications to remark as she did. She has tried.

    Oh, I don't show any more because I retired the horse and I am not getting younger plus long time trainer is out of the at home teaching business completely. I still work at a few shows each year. And, you know, I got flat priced out at 1200 a week for a AA and few local options.

    Have to say, putting that picture of SS with 3 violations with 3 horses at 3 shows in 3 months last year on the cover of that magazine really left a bad taste in my mouth and made me wonder what we are promoting.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.


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  18. #238
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    MMF, well said.

    Winning is nice, but if your horse goes great, the prizes are secondary.
    Screw that.

    I'm a little more blunt, but in Lucassb's camp. I find nothing noble or worthwhile in showing up to jump my horse around in a "competition" that is rigged. When I think about the ungodly amount of money I could be paying in order to systematically lose, and what else I could put that money toward, I just can't find a good justification.

    And were I a truly noble person, I'd find a flimsy justification at best for owning a show horse. So I hang onto the rhetoric that I can and refuse to fund a sport that co-signs the BS of cheating.

    I'm not sure my next horse will be a show horse at all, as I can find lots to not like in so many disciplines. I think I could do better with a field hunter..... and have a rockin' good time.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat


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  19. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMF View Post
    6 monthes ago people were saying they don't show anymore because they don't like the warmbloods and they don't like the pace people carry around a hunter course.
    What? Can you show me the data that supports your claim that only 6 months ago "everyone" were leaving over the breed of horse, the way-of-going for the Modern Hunter *and* that not being connected to drugging?

    I think you'd have a hard time substantiating what you say. But the reason I fuss is that if someone convincingly argues that "Meh, people pack of their toys and leave in a huff all the time and for reasons other than rampant cheating," then no one needs to take notice of the problem.

    And the Devon Debacle is more than 6 months old at this point.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  20. #240
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    ^ Some of us enjoy the horses and the challenges of shows regardless of the ribbons.

    If you don't feel the same way, by all means, suit yourself.


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