[eponacowgirl]

Geez, I am just reading this thread to see how much taller everyone is than me.

How does my 14.2 TB pony look at 3'9"?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1&l=cd9b5df0d1

I can't tell because I'm too offended by how gigantically too tall you are.

ETA: Anyone else find it funny that anyone in hunters over 5'4" thinks they need a 16.2 h horse... and yet all the small ponies go around with oversized children on them?
/rash over-generalization

[tinydragon]

as far as i've been told, most riding sound, relatively athletic horses (thoroughbred or otherwise) can jump up to 3'9". however, consistently jumping courses, and in particular, competing, at those levels or higher are dependent on a variety of other factors - most importantly, the capability of the rider on their back.

when it comes to rider height and weight vs horse height and weight, i'm 5'8 and quite long-legged. though i personally prefer riding a taller, thicker set horse, i've ridden plenty of small horses and large ponies with absolutely no issue and have a lot of fun while doing so. if this girl feels she's too big for her filly, there're possibly other contributing factors for that notion than simply being too big for the horse.

[millerra]

rider vs horse size: The most uncomfortable horse for me to ride ever due to being "too big" was a 15 hand paint. Man, he was WIDE. It HURT. Of course, I've been riding slab sided TBs who wear narrow trees for the last 20 yrs. So maybe my perspective was a bit off...

[NRB]

funny I grew up with the notion firmly planted in my head that any horse worth it's salt can trot a 3' fence, only to find that my event instructor of recent years thinks any decent horse should be able to trot a 4' fence. Mind you we are talking about trotting a fence. Not cantering a course.

Whatever, If my 15.2hh childhood appy could do modified jumpers up to 4' competitively then the average Tb should find 4' no problem.

[Ambitious Kate]

When I was a girl, I had an OTTB mare who was a distance runner, and 17 hands. I hunted her, rode jumpers and outside courses hunter, did hunter paces and hunt trials at the time. We routinely walked a 4 foot course for conditioning. Today, that horse would be a lovely event horse. Out in the woods, we could jump up a 5 foot bank and easily clear a 12 foot stream. Because she is my baseline experience, I consider her 'average' but I don't know if that is true. Today my hanovarian/TB cross is easily as talented, but I do expect that of them, so I don't know if it is average or not. If a horse was a jumper I certainly would expect they could trot or perhaps walk a 4 foot course of simple jumps. I don't think height under 5 feet is formidable in a horse's mind. I think it is in humans' minds, but not for horses. Most horses and ponies can step up to, and over or easily rise over and hop a four foot barrier if they wanted to be on the other side.

Just my opinon.

[Ambitious Kate]

Geez, I am just reading this thread to see how much taller everyone is than me.

How does my 14.2 TB pony look at 3'9"?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...1&l=cd9b5df0d1

Hah, ha, that's a great photo - I wouldn't think it was a 14.2 at 3'9" - I would think it was a 16.2 at 4'6". So its sort of a scale thing with that photo and her effort (if your pony's a she). meanwhile, you look great on her. Nice job.

Actually, looking at it again, the moment the photo was snapped, with her back legs coming up, almost looks llike she's just cantering over it, ready to come down already. My guess is 3'6" wasn't a stretch for her, and the spread is adding in a bit of effort.

[GraceLikeRain]

So much really does come down to the individual horse. I've been at barns full of poorly built horses that would've needed a lion chasing them to get the guts to attempt a single 3'6 fence at liberty. A well built horse of average height and average confidence shouldn't struggle at 3'6-4 individual fences or even courses but a poorly built horse might struggle more. If the poor conformation is coupled with a lack of fitness, I can see how even a 3'6 fence could be challenging.
Now that I've said that I am sure someone will come back and says they had a 15.1 downhill bowlegged TB who jumped 5 foot like it was nothing but I still think that structure plays a huge role in many cases.

[Simkie]

funny I grew up with the notion firmly planted in my head that any horse worth it's salt can trot a 3' fence, only to find that my event instructor of recent years thinks any decent horse should be able to trot a 4' fence. Mind you we are talking about trotting a fence. Not cantering a course.

Ha. My childhood trainer told us that ANY horse should be able to walk a 3' square oxer. WALK.

I guess that's still my rule of thumb....

[Carol Ames]

'equine athlete lecturesDr. Vasko, dvm., used to say in his "equine athlete "lectures that, in order to jump 3;6" the average horse needs to raise his COG only 3"

[gumtree]

It depends. In steeplechasing, the national fence is 54".

54 inches at the top of the plastic brush. The solid part of the jump which is basically a roll jump is 30 inches and these are called hurdles. In American Steeplechasing there are 2 types of jumps hurdle and timber. A good hurdle horse knows it only has to jump 30 inches or so and “brushes’ through the 24 inches of plastic brush. You don’t want them to jump over the top they will never win against good horses that way. They will loose too much forward momentum and give up position to ones that don’t. Timber is a different story they have to clear the top rail and get the landing gear down quickly. You don’t want them to “round over” it too much like a show horse for the same reason as a hurdler given above. But you definitely don’t want them to hurdle it which happens if asked from too far a distance. They catch their hind legs on the landing and things go down hill from there. Ask me how I know.
Most timber racecourse are 3-6 to 4 feet. We have a couple of timber horses that can easily ping 5 feet at speed. And higher if asked. There are not a lot of timber races so most don’t put it all together and will always be “also rans”. That’s not to say they are not good jumpers that’s usually a given. There is more to be a winner then just good jumping skills. Ex timber horses can be had and IMO are worth checking out. Just call around to any of the jump trainers.

[wildlifer]

I think it's like asking how high can a human jump. They're all inviduals, I don't think it's really a valid question. I see ALL the time on here "any horse can jump 3' easily!" Well, it's simply not true, there are just too many variables, INCLUDING the horse's desire to do so.

[fordtraktor]

54 inches at the top of the plastic brush. The solid part of the jump which is basically a roll jump is 30 inches and these are called hurdles. In American Steeplechasing there are 2 types of jumps hurdle and timber. A good hurdle horse knows it only has to jump 30 inches or so and “brushes’ through the 24 inches of plastic brush. You don’t want them to jump over the top they will never win against good horses that way. They will loose too much forward momentum and give up position to ones that don’t. Timber is a different story they have to clear the top rail and get the landing gear down quickly. You don’t want them to “round over” it too much like a show horse for the same reason as a hurdler given above. But you definitely don’t want them to hurdle it which happens if asked from too far a distance. They catch their hind legs on the landing and things go down hill from there. Ask me how I know.
Most timber racecourse are 3-6 to 4 feet. We have a couple of timber horses that can easily ping 5 feet at speed. And higher if asked. There are not a lot of timber races so most don’t put it all together and will always be “also rans”. That’s not to say they are not good jumpers that’s usually a given. There is more to be a winner then just good jumping skills. Ex timber horses can be had and IMO are worth checking out. Just call around to any of the jump trainers.

Gumtree, have you had a lot of experience turning steeplechasers into eventers/knowing people who did? I've only had one and I could not make him careful enough to get around a jumper course clean, ever. He had a tendency to "brush through" rails without batting an eye. 12, 16 faults every time out. BUT -- he would jump anything you put in front of him and was a fun horse so I tried for a long time before giving up on him. Do you think he was an exception or is this a common problem?

[Xctrygirl]

Gumtree, have you had a lot of experience turning steeplechasers into eventers/knowing people who did? I've only had one and I could not make him careful enough to get around a jumper course clean, ever. He had a tendency to "brush through" rails without batting an eye. 12, 16 faults every time out. BUT -- he would jump anything you put in front of him and was a fun horse so I tried for a long time before giving up on him. Do you think he was an exception or is this a common problem?

LOL And this would explain why Lad was such a sucky steeplechaser. He wouldn't brush through until the 3rd or 4th fence in a race. He much preferred clearing them. And he is an awesome jumper horse now.

But I know Gumtree and her experience and horses. They come out very nice. And through my experience I have seen a number of ex chasers come out to be amazing fox hunters and show horses.

Remember there are just horses that don't care about rails... King William, Tipperary Lidahnan, and many others.

Emily

[fordtraktor]

Thanks, Emily. Yes, there are certainly horses that don't care about hitting rails -- and they tend not to make very good showjumpers which is what I was doing with my ex-chaser. I was just wondering whether as a group this is a consistent trait -- I just haven't known enough ex-chasers to get a sense of whether most are not careful, or whether it is fixable. Sounds like you've had some success with them so hopefully my experience was just an anomaly.

FWIW, my horse would have been a great foxhunter. He wasn't dangerous, just not careful -- and he'd jump anything and find his own distance to it. He'd be great for someone who wanted a point-and-shoot uncomplicated ride at speed. I would not be surprised if he ended up in the hunt field.

[gumtree]

Gumtree, have you had a lot of experience turning steeplechasers into eventers/knowing people who did? I've only had one and I could not make him careful enough to get around a jumper course clean, ever. He had a tendency to "brush through" rails without batting an eye. 12, 16 faults every time out. BUT -- he would jump anything you put in front of him and was a fun horse so I tried for a long time before giving up on him. Do you think he was an exception or is this a common problem?

No, we do not have a lot of experience with re-training OTTBs for Eventing. Our main focus is breeding, raising, breaking for the race track. That’s our main profit center and what “carries” the farm. We don’t have “side” jobs and only work with Thoroughbreds. We re-school mostly the horses we have breed and raced after they come home from the track. If they go at all. Steeplechasing is what I thoroughly enjoy but we are not big enough to make a living with it. There is not a lot of money to be made and being rather small in scope compared to flat racing it is hard to make a living with it. I quite enjoy Eventing, no so much the dressage part too subjective, and our circle of friends in the neighborhood are among the leading riders and trainers in the sport. And they are very kind in giving advise and council. With over 40 horses on the farm of various ages and training its hard to concentrate on any one discipline. We enjoy putting solid foundations on our re-schools and then offering to others to finish off.
As to you ex-steeplechaser was it a Hurdle racer or Timber? Sounds like a hurdler which would explain being a rail dropper. I prefer Timber being from Maryland and have only worked with a few ex-hurdle horses. Some have made decent fox hunters, but they never really got the knack of jumping from the bottom of a bigger fence. Found it hard to get the “hurdle” out of them but we didn’t put a ton of time into it. People won’t pay for the time needed. Though a couple of top Steeplechase trainers start their horse out over hurdles and when that runs it course put them over Timber. Some do all right but IMO most are just also rans. I don’t follow Eventing close enough to know if any ex-Steeplechase horses have been tried and or have been any good. But I would like to believe they would be worth a “look see”. Timber horses much more so then Hurdle. Most good Timber hoses do not break rails in a race. Though certainly it happens that’s why we put “timber shin pads” on. But one has to remember that these horses are running at speed with lots of horses around them and have to have the talent and agility to clear fences regardless of the “spot” they end up in. There is no penalty or faults in jump racing first one over the finish line that didn’t go off course wins. So, long answer to a short question no, IMO, I don’t think this would be “common” per-say if your horse ran over Timber especially if he was any good. All jump races are videoed so if there was a horse of interest I would want to get vids of some of its races and go from there.

[gumtree]

LOL And this would explain why Lad was such a sucky steeplechaser. He wouldn't brush through until the 3rd or 4th fence in a race. He much preferred clearing them. And he is an awesome jumper horse now.

But I know Gumtree and her experience and horses. They come out very nice. And through my experience I have seen a number of ex chasers come out to be amazing fox hunters and show horses.

Remember there are just horses that don't care about rails... King William, Tipperary Lidahnan, and many others.

Emily

Thanks for the compliment, Emily
Larry

[fordtraktor]

Thank you for the information, Larry. I do not know what he ran over, as his record on equibase is just his flat racing record (I heard this is common and this was more than 15 years ago). He ran 34 times on the flat, mostly distance up to mile and a half, then I assume he moved to jump races -- that's what I was told, anyway, and I believe it because I heard it from multiple people. He was a sweet horse - big, rangy bay with a roman nose and a lot of scars. He'd worked hard and was super game, gotta love a horse like that and I hope he ended up in good hands (I just had him on "free lease" and his owner took him back when it became clear we weren't going to be able to sell him for much as a jumper). He just had such a weird style, brushing through the top of everything. If you set a jump at 3' with a second rail at 2'6, he'd hit the 3' rail and clear the 2'6 one. If you set a jump at 5' and a rail at 4'6, he'd clear the 4'6 one and brush off the 5' one. I think he had jumped big jumps because the size of a fence never once fazed him in any way. Just a very odd issue and I wish I could have figured him out.

[gumtree]

Thank you for the information, Larry. I do not know what he ran over, as his record on equibase is just his flat racing record (I heard this is common and this was more than 15 years ago). He ran 34 times on the flat, mostly distance up to mile and a half, then I assume he moved to jump races -- that's what I was told, anyway, and I believe it because I heard it from multiple people. He was a sweet horse - big, rangy bay with a roman nose and a lot of scars. He'd worked hard and was super game, gotta love a horse like that and I hope he ended up in good hands (I just had him on "free lease" and his owner took him back when it became clear we weren't going to be able to sell him for much as a jumper). He just had such a weird style, brushing through the top of everything. If you set a jump at 3' with a second rail at 2'6, he'd hit the 3' rail and clear the 2'6 one. If you set a jump at 5' and a rail at 4'6, he'd clear the 4'6 one and brush off the 5' one. I think he had jumped big jumps because the size of a fence never once fazed him in any way. Just a very odd issue and I wish I could have figured him out.

This is a pretty nifty Steeplechase website that gives complete race records for jumpers. http://www.centralentryoffice.com/ It goes back many years so there is a pretty good chance your horse is in their data base.
Click on Reports, then clink on “Horse” in the drop down box below “Report type” click past performance, detailed. Type in his name, it must be exact, then click find horse then when its name come up click “show report”.

I know what you mean but sometimes there is nothing to figure out it’s just the horse. Very frustrating at times.