The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 26 of 26
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    9,477

    Default

    Tom - some questions -

    1. Will this studbook operate in NA? IOW, are NA bred foals eligible for registration as long as they meet the bloodline criteria?

    2. Are there any inspection requirements for mare or foal?

    3. Is the registry going for WBFSH recognition?

    4. What is the name of the studbook? Is it a separate studbook within WSI?



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2003
    Location
    Morningside Stud, Ogonnelloe, Co. Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    1,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Tom - some questions -

    1. Will this studbook operate in NA? IOW, are NA bred foals eligible for registration as long as they meet the bloodline criteria?

    2. Are there any inspection requirements for mare or foal?

    3. Is the registry going for WBFSH recognition?

    4. What is the name of the studbook? Is it a separate studbook within WSI?
    1. Yes. We plan to work with serious and dedicated breeders throughout the world. (Dedicated = breeders whose goal is to produce top-level eventers, not breeders who are trying to breed showjumpers and think their horse can be called an eventing horse if it is not good enough to be a showjumper. There is a lot of that on this side of the pond.)

    2. Unlike WSI, which has strict mare inspection requirements and for which every foal must be inspected (not to determine eligibility for registration but to provide important insights to the breeder and the Stallion Inspection Committee), the eventing studbook will not have mare and foal inspections. It would be impossible to conduct inspections with breeders and the mares scattered all over the world.

    3. The WBFSH does not "recognize" or "approve" studbooks. It is a trade association dominated by a few big studbooks that protect their interests jealously. To become a Full Member of the WBFSH the studbook must have been in operation for at least five years. (A new studbook can become an Associate Member but there are no privileges other than being required to hand over a sum of money each year.) When the studbook is five years old we will join the WBFSH if it is providing services to studbooks and, by extension, breeders that are useful.

    4. We will announce the name in due course. The studbook will be completely separate from WSI; it will not be affiliated with WSI except both studbooks will be managed by the same team of experienced and successful breeders.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Location
    Southern Pines, N.C.
    Posts
    11,535

    Default

    I am not a breeder, but I am looking for a young horse with upper level potential, so I have been studying pedigrees intently. I have also had people emailing me with young horses for sale.

    While many of these young horses are exciting event prospects, and I appreciate knowing about them, others are OTTB's with no known sporthorse breeding. (e.g. I look for In Reality, Buckpasser, Caro, Hoist The Flag, His Majesty, Princequillo, Never Bend, Dr. Fager etc.). Their only common trait(s) is that they were too slow or unsound or old to be a racehorse.

    Using the current criteria, any of these mares and their offspring can be included in your stud book, right?

    I have also looked at progeny of Windfall since he is producing good eventing offspring. But, since the Trakhener is not a "desirable breed", unless those foals are out of a qualifying mare, they would not be registerable, if I am correct.

    I very possibly could be wrong in any or all of my assumptions, so please correct me if I am.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct. 29, 2000
    Location
    Southern Pines, N.C.
    Posts
    11,535

    Default

    I found this list, compiled by the USEA, over on the Eventing forum. I researched pedigrees for almost all of these horses, trying to find a common thread or ancestor.

    http://useventing.com/news/young-eve...e-are-they-now

    Sadly, none jumped out at me except for Winfall's offspring. However, these are generally too young to have had the opportunity to succeed at the upper levels.

    I know this list only goes back to 2004 and is only comprised of US eventing classes, so it is far from a comprehensive study of eventing bloodlines, but still, I found the lack of commonality of bloodlines to be discouraging.

    PS: It seems to me that A Fine Romance should be on your list of charter stallions. He certainly fulfills all of your requirements.
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2003
    Location
    Morningside Stud, Ogonnelloe, Co. Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    1,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    I am not a breeder, but I am looking for a young horse with upper level potential, so I have been studying pedigrees intently. I have also had people emailing me with young horses for sale.

    While many of these young horses are exciting event prospects, and I appreciate knowing about them, others are OTTB's with no known sporthorse breeding. (e.g. I look for In Reality, Buckpasser, Caro, Hoist The Flag, His Majesty, Princequillo, Never Bend, Dr. Fager etc.). Their only common trait(s) is that they were too slow or unsound or old to be a racehorse.

    Using the current criteria, any of these mares and their offspring can be included in your stud book, right?

    I have also looked at progeny of Windfall since he is producing good eventing offspring. But, since the Trakhener is not a "desirable breed", unless those foals are out of a qualifying mare, they would not be registerable, if I am correct.

    I very possibly could be wrong in any or all of my assumptions, so please correct me if I am.
    Windfall is exactly the kind of stallion we hope breeders will consider using: a very successful international eventer at the highest levels with a top-class pedigree including a dam that evented and a sister that was also a successful eventer. And his dam is a TB.

    Windfall is a "half-bred". If he is bred to a TB/AA/ShA mare, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a half-bred mare that descends from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that descends from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that has a documented 5-generation pedigree but does not descend from a TB/AA/ShA damline, that foal can be registered by the new studbook only if that mare, or a mare in her damline, has evented at 3* or 4* level and/or has produced progeny that competed at 3* or 4* level. If he is bred to a warmblood mare that does not have a full 5-generation pedigree, that foal can be registered by the new studbook only if that mare, or a mare in her damline, has evented at 3* or 4* level and/or has produced progeny that competed at 3* or 4* level.

    We are looking for serious breeders who are dedicated to breeding CCI/CIC horses. We are not interested in breeders who are using the wrong kind of marem be it TB or warmblood. There are many TB mares, and daughters of TB mares, that are useless for sport horse breeding. The breeder is ultimately responsible for figuring that out. Likewise there are many warmblood mares, and daughters of warmblood mares, that are useless for sport horse breeding. And the breeder if ultimately responsible or figuring that out also. According to my definition of "useless" probably 80-90% of mares used in breeding outside of the core continental breeding countries (Germany. France, Belgium, the Netherlands) are useless. In some countries the percentage is much higher.

    Please note the following. The only horses that will be "included" in the new studbook -- meaning the only horses that will be entered into the studbook and have a status -- are horses born into the studbook. For a discussion of this point please see my reply to post #24.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 30, 2003
    Location
    Morningside Stud, Ogonnelloe, Co. Clare, Ireland
    Posts
    1,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    I found this list, compiled by the USEA, over on the Eventing forum. I researched pedigrees for almost all of these horses, trying to find a common thread or ancestor.

    http://useventing.com/news/young-eve...e-are-they-now

    Sadly, none jumped out at me except for Winfall's offspring. However, these are generally too young to have had the opportunity to succeed at the upper levels.

    I know this list only goes back to 2004 and is only comprised of US eventing classes, so it is far from a comprehensive study of eventing bloodlines, but still, I found the lack of commonality of bloodlines to be discouraging.

    PS: It seems to me that A Fine Romance should be on your list of charter stallions. He certainly fulfills all of your requirements.
    The lack of commonality is precisely our concern about eventing breeding. When we do see "commonality" it is almost always through a sire that has had many many foals (often 1,000 - 2,000) so of course we are going to see his progeny pop up in CCI/CIC classes, especially if that stallion stands in Ireland or the UK.

    To a great extent much eventing breeding is not eventing breeding at all -- we are seeing the "happy accidents" I wrote about for Horse International magazine. We are not interested in producing happy accidents; we are interested in producing top-level CCI/CIC horses with as much predictability that the Holsteiner Verband, and its breeders, produce top-level CSI horses.

    To return to the issue of status: The only horses that will be "included" in the new studbook -- meaning the only horses that will be entered into or registered by the studbook and have a status -- are horses born into the studbook. So the approved stallions and Main Book mares will be horses born into the new studbook. Stallions and mares that produce foals for the studbook will have no status in the studbook unless they themselves were born into the new studbook.

    Stallions used by breeders operating within the new studbook will have no status with the studbook. If it is a TB/AA/ShA stallion we will accept his progeny if they are out of mares that meet our criteria. But likewise those mares will not have a status with the studbook.

    In the case of half-bred stallions and warmblood stallions, they must be approved by a studbook recognized by the new studbook if the new studbook is to register their progeny.

    Why this approach? We want to work with serious and dedicated eventing breeders who know what they are doing. There is no credible way we could propose to "approve" stallions throughout the world. We leave it to the serious and dedicated breeder to make the right choicces and when mistakes are made to figure that out quickly.

    So we have not invited any stallion to affiliate or breed within or seek approval by the new studbook...and we willl not be doing so. Stallions that meet the studbook's criteria may produce foals for the studbook..but the new studbook's Approved Stallions will be only colt foals that were born into the new studbook that later get approved by the new studbook.
    Last edited by tom; Jan. 19, 2013 at 03:50 PM.



Similar Threads

  1. Is the Continental Studbook active?
    By Derid in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Jul. 13, 2012, 10:11 AM
  2. Studbook AWHA?
    By vineyridge in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: Apr. 11, 2012, 06:38 AM
  3. Who is behind the North American Studbook ?
    By Equibrit in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Nov. 1, 2011, 03:44 PM
  4. SCSL Studbook
    By vineyridge in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: Jul. 4, 2010, 12:24 PM
  5. Continental Studbook?
    By mtngirl in forum Sport Horse Breeding
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: Sep. 23, 2009, 02:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness