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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Bluey's post calling people against commercial horse slaughter insane or slow learners...quoted above.

    Also, in reference to your other post, my post was a response to being told that no one ever posts links to FOIA docs. They are older because #1- it took 2 yrs to get the records after they were requested by a FOIA request. And #2- the SH that it referenced was closed. So you won't find any recent info on US horse SH's.

    And since you have stated you wouldn't support any act even horse tripping, dog fighting, etc (I guess your use of any, would also mean child labor, drunk driving, child porn, etc, since that is what "ANY" means), I don't know why you even post on these threads. You've repeatedly stated you dislike them, are bored with them, etc, so what is your purpose? You disbelieve any official documents, any videos that have been forensically audited, and all sources of info, so I don't see what your reasons for posting are. Other than to try to stir the pot, with comments like "where's the head banging icon, etc...
    You are being deliberately obtuse.
    I Cannot get through to you, And I suppose I am seriously wasting my time.
    You forget one thing we keep telling you over and over. We are not looking for a ban. I am only sticking around to even out the sides.
    The HEad to wall Icon is how we are feeling when we try to make you understand.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  2. #422
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    Jetsmom and luvmytbs,

    My challenge about foia was that none of you (personally) have ever requested any info via foia. You then posted many years old links to old documents which a hsus satellite group requested, not you! You proved my point. You are not personally doing anything of any sort about the unwanted horse population. You simply post and repost the links to info which has no bearing on today.



  3. #423
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    lluvmytbs,

    Why must you threaten me? Why are you threatening to slap my fingers again? Is it my fault your info is so very dated? Why are you so uncomfortable with discourse on slaughter?



  4. #424
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Just a general comment.
    In 2007, when the ban slaughter drive with the misguided ban slaughter bill was going on full force, there were some heated debates and real mean name calling at times.
    Moderators did step in when it was getting out of hand and calmed the waters.

    Even then, extraneous comments that were kind of funny, not mean, like the "two brain cells" "insanity definition" and such others we have tried to insert here and there, while not necessary to the debates, were taken in the context offered, as a light way to tease.

    Those were other times and other posters, no one lived and died by what was posted or not answered to here.
    I expect the died in the wool real animal rights fanatics didn't even stop here, on a horse web site.

    Today, it seems that some are making these discussions their day job, have to keep them broiling, will bring them up again and again or start another thread and they mean it to be less than great discussions with some leeway, but a serious endeavor.

    The way I see these debates, it is fine to disagree, fine to work to make things the way you want them to be where possible.
    Not fine to make it your life's work to impose your specific ideologies on others, not any more right than insisting anyone believes your special brand of religion and all live by that religion's mandates.
    Yes, I know that right is defended in the Constitution.
    I guess if there had been any question of our rights to have and use animals or not, that may also have been clearly determined there.

    Eliminating all use of animals on some strange ideology that now put them off limits to humans is like demanding everyone follow, say, muslim or jewish or you name religious precepts.
    Sorry, the world evolved using animals and as of now, it still is good that we can do so. That is why we have our horses, we have COTH the magazine and these forums also.
    Part of that is slaughter, including horse slaughter.

    Now, how to manage slaughter, that is a very different discussion than these, where there is no good slaughter accepted, it is all evil, lets ban it is the only solution.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #425
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    Greenville, MI,
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    The way I see these debates, it is fine to disagree, fine to work to make things the way you want them to be where possible.
    Not fine to make it your life's work to impose your specific ideologies on others, not any more right than insisting anyone believes your special brand of religion and all live by that religion's mandates.
    YES~ THIS!!!! Why can no one see this point why??
    Alagirl Fairfax Bluey, you guys do not have to answer.
    I want to know from the rest why this is such a hard concept to understand?
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  6. #426
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    You are both on the wrong thread.

    This one is about mislabeled and unsafe meat products.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    5 members found this post helpful.

  7. #427
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    You are both on the wrong thread.

    This one is about mislabeled and unsafe meat products.


    classic!

    Then why are you here?
    Quote Originally Posted by fargaloo View Post
    Do you not understand how asking "why now?" is EXACTLY part of the reason why assault victims feel silenced?



  8. #428
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    You are both on the wrong thread.

    This one is about mislabeled and unsafe meat products.
    Beg to disagree with that.
    This was used by certain posters to again push the drive to ban horse slaughter.
    That is why talking about horse slaughter at this point is very much what this thread is about.

    I am surprised you have not noticed that yet, after you have been now at this 400+ post?



  9. #429
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Jetsmom and luvmytbs,

    My challenge about foia was that none of you (personally) have ever requested any info via foia.
    You are not personally doing anything of any sort about the unwanted horse population.
    And you would know this how?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  10. #430
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    Feb. 10, 2006
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    Middle of Nowhere, take a right, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    I said none of the local members of the rara sisterhood have ever requested anything via foia. You prove nothing by posting links to 9 year old documents requested by animal rights organizations! Don't you read for comprehension?
    WHY would anyone else request these documents which take about 2 years to receive on average when SOMEONE ELSE ALREADY DID AND POSTED THEM ON THE NET FOR ALL TO SEE?!

    I mean seriously?

    As for them being outdated well, yeah, if they take 2 years to come, they are already outdated. If slaughter has not been going on in the US for several years now even the most recent would be seriously "outdated". Unfortunately no matter what the dates they are pretty much the same as far as cruelty to animals goes.

    Which is what gets me. How can any horse lover support this industry which is fraught with cruelty and has shown absolutely no intention of cleaning up their act but every intention of covering up bad acts. And that doesn't even count the current problems of toxic meat and fraud by mislabeling. I don't care if people eat dead horses but I do care very much about the whole process of getting them there. And I care very much if horse meat products are passed off as beef!
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    9 members found this post helpful.

  11. #431
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    KY
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    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-n...vealed-1826120

    Horsemeat scandal's prime suspect revealed: Is this the tycoon who butchered the meat trade?

    12 April 2013

    He has become a leading suspect in the food scandal which has seen tainted meat sold by British supermarkets in ready meals and burgers.

    This is the tycoon Dutch *authorities suspect may have flooded Europe with 50,000 tons of beef *contaminated with horsemeat.

    Willy Selten has become a leading suspect in the food scandal which has seen tainted meat sold by British supermarkets in ready meals and burgers.

    Selten, who lives in a £1.5million house near Oss, Netherlands, owns two wholesalers being probed by officials.

    The Dutch government initially denied any involvement in the scandal.

    But this week officials recalled 50,000 tons of suspect beef sold by Selten’s firms, Wiljo Import en Export BV and *Vleesgroothandel Willy Selten.

    They have advised 370 companies across 16 countries to remove the beef from the food chain.

    Selten became known to the authorities last May when meat supplied by his wholesaler tested positive for horse painkiller bute – which can be dangerous when consumed by humans.

    But Selten’s huge meat businesses continued to operate.


    Now investigators cannot find the paperwork that would help them trace the suspect beef’s source.

    The beef – equivalent to 450 million quarter-pounder burgers – is worth £500million and was sold by Selten between January 2011 and February this year.

    But millionaire Selten has failed to pay his 120 workers since the beginning of March, leading several to take legal action in an attempt to bankrupt his company.

    He currently employs 85 Polish workers who live on a campsite near one of his warehouses in Oss, which stands behind imposing grey gates and *corrugated shutters.

    The father-of-two was said by neighbours to be a “quiet family man”.

    One said: “He’s not flash but there’s a quiet, aristocratic air of wealth about him. He's not short of a euro or two.”

    Selten faced no action last year when horsemeat contaminated with bute was traced to one of his factories.

    It was not until this year that the factory was shut down temporarily and Selten was taken to court in February.

    At that point, the focus of the probe was on the drug contamination but it is understood Dutch officials also suspected the trader of mixing meat.

    Selten was allowed to re-open the firms and trade again under strict supervision.

    Following his court case, Selten was asked by a reporter: “It is said that you are mixing horsemeat with beef. Strangely enough, nothing was said about this today?”

    Selten responded cryptically: “You’re right, I found that strange as well.”

    He then admitted mixing horsemeat with fat from beef. He said: “Yes, we’ve processed horsemeat.

    "There was also horsemeat mixed with fat from beef, ordered by and in co-operation with a company that delivered the horsemeat.”

    Dutch officials said the exact source of the latest suspect meat could not be traced due to a lack of *paperwork so “its safety cannot be guaranteed” and some “may already have been consumed”.

    They have been in contact with our own Food Standards Agency, which believes meat from the trader was sold to British companies.

    Asked if horsemeat was being mixed with beef, Selten’s lawyer Frank Peters said: “That’s the theory, but the investigation is ongoing.”

    On Tuesday, the FSA said veterinary drug bute had been found in Asda Smart Price Corned Beef.

    Asda had already withdrawn tens of thousands of cans of its own brand corned beef last month after it was found to contain up to 50% horsemeat.

    The scandal erupted in January when Irish food standards officials announced they found horse in burgers made in Ireland and the UK and sold by stores such as Tesco, Iceland, Aldi and Lidl.

    The problems quickly spread across the continent and involved well-known brands including Findus and Nestle

    City of London Police fraud experts will lead the probe into a scandal *ministers described as a “criminal conspiracy which covers 23 countries”.

    The Mirror approached Selten, but he refused to comment.

    Tesco and Asda both denied having links with him.

    Safety chiefs gave trader second chance

    IT took nine months for officials to take action against Willy Selten after the harmful horse *tranquiliser bute was found in meat traced to one of his firms.

    All the while, the trader was able to sell meat across Europe, which authorities now have serious concerns over.

    His factories were shut in February and he faced a short court case, which resulted in him being allowed to trade again – under strict supervision.

    A Dutch Food Safety Authority spokeswoman explained: “Our policy in the Netherlands is that *everybody should be given a second chance.”

    But the suspicion is now that Selten’s firms sold *horsemeat that was relabelled as beef.

    That *suspicion has led to this week’s urgent recall of 50,000 tons of meat across Europe.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"


    1 members found this post helpful.

  12. #432
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    Feb. 10, 2006
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    Good grief.

    And his employees live in a campground? I wonder what their definition/concept of campground is?
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #433
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    Summerhorse,
    One might consider your comments tinged with racism. And on your prior post asking about why someone would request docs via foia, it was aimed at the local sisterhood who were basking in the glow of their own silly self-worship. They were repeatedly claiming that 'they' had exposed terrible abuses by using foia. I simply pointed out that if they had, they would have receipts and cover letters addressed to them personally. They did not. They posted 9-year old documents requested by Animal Angels about everything except horses!
    The phrase 'would of, should of and could of' comes to mind!



  14. #434
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    Ottawa,Ontario
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Summerhorse,
    One might consider your comments tinged with racism. And on your prior post asking about why someone would request docs via foia, it was aimed at the local sisterhood who were basking in the glow of their own silly self-worship. They were repeatedly claiming that 'they' had exposed terrible abuses by using foia. I simply pointed out that if they had, they would have receipts and cover letters addressed to them personally. They did not. They posted 9-year old documents requested by Animal Angels about everything except horses!
    The phrase 'would of, should of and could of' comes to mind!
    Would have, should have, could have, or....would've, should've, could've.
    "My doctrine is this, that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt.”
    ― Anna Sewell


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #435
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    Good grief.

    And his employees live in a campground? I wonder what their definition/concept of campground is?
    That stuck out to me and also the fact that he had not paid his [less than 100] employees in 6 weeks... nice employer, JUST what the US needs, right?
    Employs under 100 people, fails to pay them for months, and they are 'camping' behind a warehouse.

    But millionaire Selten has failed to pay his 120 workers since the beginning of March, leading several to take legal action in an attempt to bankrupt his company.

    He currently employs 85 Polish workers who live on a campsite near one of his warehouses in Oss, which stands behind imposing grey gates and *corrugated shutters.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #436
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    Yes, there are 3 ways to say it!



  17. #437
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    Angela,
    Still waiting on the names and addresses of all those Kentucky feedlots you alluded to in one of your posting flurries! tick, tock, tick, tock.



  18. #438
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    Nov. 15, 2005
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7arabians View Post
    Angela,
    Still waiting on the names and addresses of all those Kentucky feedlots you alluded to in one of your posting flurries! tick, tock, tick, tock.
    Excuse me?
    Can you post a link to that post?
    I've actually never been to Kentucky, it's a trip for someday for sure, and certainly have made no claims about feedlots there...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #439
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    Jun. 19, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela Freda View Post
    That stuck out to me and also the fact that he had not paid his [less than 100] employees in 6 weeks... nice employer, JUST what the US needs, right?
    Employs under 100 people, fails to pay them for months, and they are 'camping' behind a warehouse.

    But millionaire Selten has failed to pay his 120 workers since the beginning of March, leading several to take legal action in an attempt to bankrupt his company.

    He currently employs 85 Polish workers who live on a campsite near one of his warehouses in Oss, which stands behind imposing grey gates and *corrugated shutters.
    There is not one industry in the world that does not have financial abuse, verbal abuse, emotional abuse

    Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream had a discrimination and sexual harrassment suit from one of their corporate shops.

    Walmart has for a long long time only supported countries that manufacture goods on an assembly line and the workers are underpaid...many times only paid pennies per day

    There has been a drive to sell coffee that comes from plantations that PAY their workers an almost ....again an ALMOST liveable wage

    I expect you will start to boycott and Ban ALL Wallmart stores, Ben and Jerry's and all coffee...

    Funnin is one thing...but silly is another.

    Oh...also ...you need to BAN THE POPE....


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #440
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    Jul. 1, 2011
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    I'll bet Angela is an apple supporter, using her iphone, ipod and ipad as a status symbol. But based on her posts here, to be consistent, she should lead a boycott of Apple, since they use Chinese labor!



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