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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Bluey: I think she meant "illegal" in the sense of "cannot be given to animals intended for slaughter", not banned for competition or racing. Are there actually any LAWS about it, as opposed to manufacturer recommendations? (And with the "bute causes cancer" thing, what was the ratio of chemical to body weight for the lab rats used to test it? With saccharine they found it "caused cancer" when they were giving it to rats in a ratio that would require humans to be consuming pounds and pounds of it over a very short time. And has there been laboratory testing to show that it really does "remain in the meat" years after the fact so one dose is exclusionary forever? That does not make a lot of sense but I only have undergrad biology to go on.)

    At least you got some biology...
    I am a complete laywoman...but I find it hard to believe that any compound remains in the body forever.

    Now, heavy metals are known to remain....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  2. #142
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    I have stopped wasting my breath arguning on this subject. To some, the ONLY thing wrong here is that the product was mislabeled. That means that there is no reason to have a labeling requirement--because everything is perfectly okay as long as it is on the label. It doesn't matter whether the products on the label are legal for sale for consumption by humans or not. It doesn't matter whether the slaughterhouses are inspected by the FDA (for human consumption) or not. It doesn't matter whether the food and medicine given to the animals to be consumed are regulated or not. As long as the type of animal is on the label.

    Geez, if labeling is the only thing wrong, then why don't the companies just list it on the label?

    Under the theory advance by some here, it would be perfectly okay to sell dog, cat, tiger, monkey, elephant or even human meat for human consumption as long as it is listed on the label.

    I am not convinced. Why do I think that there are reasons behind the labeling laws, and it is because of those underlying reasons that manufacturers don't label their products accurately. Silly me.
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  3. #143
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    What would vegetarians[*] say if Quorn mince (which is meant to be soy free) was found to be contaminated with soya protein? Discusting!

    [*]and meaties who like Quorn



  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post
    I have stopped wasting my breath arguning on this subject. To some, the ONLY thing wrong here is that the product was mislabeled. That means that there is no reason to have a labeling requirement--because everything is perfectly okay as long as it is on the label. It doesn't matter whether the products on the label are legal for sale for consumption by humans or not. It doesn't matter whether the slaughterhouses are inspected by the FDA (for human consumption) or not. It doesn't matter whether the food and medicine given to the animals to be consumed are regulated or not. As long as the type of animal is on the label.

    Geez, if labeling is the only thing wrong, then why don't the companies just list it on the label?

    Under the theory advance by some here, it would be perfectly okay to sell dog, cat, tiger, monkey, elephant or even human meat for human consumption as long as it is listed on the label.

    I am not convinced. Why do I think that there are reasons behind the labeling laws, and it is because of those underlying reasons that manufacturers don't label their products accurately. Silly me.
    I don't understand your complaint?

    We are talking about fraud in labeling, as per existing laws.

    Why would you think that is objectionable?



  5. #145
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    [QUOTE=Bluey;6860163]I don't understand your complaint?
    [/QUOTE


    Exactly!!
    "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain" ~Friedrich Schiller



  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclectic Horseman View Post

    Geez, if labeling is the only thing wrong, then why don't the companies just list it on the label?

    Under the theory advance by some here, it would be perfectly okay to sell dog, cat, tiger, monkey, elephant or even human meat for human consumption as long as it is listed on the label.

    Non argument.

    however, were the above choices legal options on the market - which some of them are, some places - yes, as long as you accurately label the beast within.

    then we now get into reasons why cats and dogs only have a small fan base in the culinary world, why Tigers are generally not on the menu and why monkeys are more often crossed off than not....and humans are just not raised in a clean environment. Bute would be the least of your worries.

    and yes, I am making fun of you.

    manufacturers label their stuff because they have to.
    they label dog fur 'Gerwolf' or put an * on the 'fish' they are selling, because it sounds better and the customer buys it.

    Now, truth in labeling.
    some people have to know what's in the food they eat.
    To a few it is a matter of life and death.

    That means hazelnut oil instead of olives, peanuts instead of almonds, shrimp instead of fish, this fish vs that, chicken vs alligator....
    or milk, what soy or corn.....

    And when they do not comply with the laws they need to be punished.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #147
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    [QUOTE=Eclectic Horseman;6860169]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I don't understand your complaint?
    [/QUOTE


    Exactly!!
    Lets try again.
    We have talked about much else, but the main topic, as per the thread title and article links provided, is that, should I repeat, someone sold mislabeled meat and that is illegal.
    Why do you object to that?
    No responding with another flip answer.
    Read your own signature line and try with a real response.



  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Non argument.

    however, were the above choices legal options on the market - which some of them are, some places - yes, as long as you accurately label the beast within.

    then we now get into reasons why cats and dogs only have a small fan base in the culinary world, why Tigers are generally not on the menu and why monkeys are more often crossed off than not....and humans are just not raised in a clean environment. Bute would be the least of your worries.

    and yes, I am making fun of you.

    manufacturers label their stuff because they have to.
    they label dog fur 'Gerwolf' or put an * on the 'fish' they are selling, because it sounds better and the customer buys it.

    Now, truth in labeling.
    some people have to know what's in the food they eat.
    To a few it is a matter of life and death.

    That means hazelnut oil instead of olives, peanuts instead of almonds, shrimp instead of fish, this fish vs that, chicken vs alligator....
    or milk, what soy or corn.....

    And when they do not comply with the laws they need to be punished.
    There are plenty of cultures that ate primates, some still do.



  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by fburton View Post
    What would vegetarians[*] say if Quorn mince (which is meant to be soy free) was found to be contaminated with soya protein? Discusting!
    [*]and meaties who like Quorn

    contaminated or purposely substituted?

    It's like the granola bars you buy in regular stores. they carry the warning label 'may contain' certain allergy triggers.
    Likely they don't but there could be that wayward peanut.

    if you just dislike peanuts - or soy - it's no problem.
    if you are deathly allergic, you are ill advised to chance it without epi pen handy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Where did you get that "100% of race and performance horses have been given banned substances"?

    THAT really doesn't make much sense, is animal rights extremist talk, like the chestnuts are tumors and a horse resting a hind leg is of course lame.
    Honestly, any one with any sense thinking that out would understand that is not so.

    I agree that any horse or other meat sold as any other meat is wrong.
    That is already illegal, we have laws against that, so what is the problem here?
    The problem is not that they used horse meat, but that they were doing so fraudulently, breaking laws.

    I will still say, any time our societies have the large amount of the natural, renewable resource some horses are for us one more time thru slaughter and WILLFULLY, on the misguided ideas of a fringe extreme group, DEMAND we waste all that, there is something wrong here and it is not only that some crook sold horse meat as other meat.
    100% of racehorses have been given drugs banned for use in food animals...Bute, wormers, clenbuterol, equipoise, etc.



  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    100% of racehorses have been given drugs banned for use in food animals...Bute, wormers, clenbuterol, equipoise, etc.
    100%? Right.



  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Sweetypie.....

    You have read the news paper article, they tested around 200 carcasses, 8 came up hot. That is the easiest calculation ever: 96% vs 4%
    my argument stands: Most horses in 'the slaughter pipeline' are clean.

    You are trying to muddy the waters with 'facts' that aren't and issues that do not relate.
    it is more like playing chess with a pigeon than having a discussion.

    There is a) the underhanded substitution of meat in a product, thus falsely labeling it. BTW, they seemed to have followed that up with DNA tests in the fish market. The results are similar dismal in terms of substitution.
    It is fraud. Illegal.

    Then you bring in the guy who jerked off into the food....(aside from the fact the lady knew what her yogurt tasted off) I doubt the gentleman was USDA/FDA approved to contribute into the food chain. Thus leaving a grand opening for spreading cooties. Which is BTW more easily done from human to human than horse to human.
    Alas, it is illegal on so many other levels and frankly not related.
    Now, had he contributed his donation in the restaurant in New Zealand (I think it was there) that offered shots of flavored equine ejaculate.....we would be back to point number one: Illegal substitution (and the cootie thing, still)

    The Jehovas Witnesses do not play in this one bit. Not sure how they popped into your mind. I am sure you had a reason, but it certainly is one elusive one.

    So you carry on about slaughter.
    oops.
    that was not the issue at all.
    it's what happens after the animal is dead...when it magically is transformed from horse to beef. Or Kangaroo to beef.
    Your 'argument' is a house of cards, build on the foundation of the assumption that all horses are always over medicated.

    Which we all know to be false.
    Why do we know that?

    Plain and simple: When the overmedicating minority gets worried about their neighbor's horse not having 10 blankets and only sees the vet twice a year and no magical Smart Pack delivery....

    And of course those tragic cases when the county is called in to clean up a mess of starving and dead horses. But those aren't exactly entering the food chain, safe for buzzards and worms.

    So, in short:
    My numbers are from the news, although I am giving allowance for inaccurate reporting (can't have it both ways, you know, blast the news when they report something you don't like, embrace them when they just happen to get it 'right in your POV), yours are assumed.

    The yogurt guy and your fictional JWs are not relevant.

    But since you have trouble comprehending what I said, once more:

    fraud is fraud. Those people need to pay for it. Go to jail and pay hefty fines.

    the amusing part:
    Ok, not pay attention!
    Ready?

    There is no telling how long it has been going on. There are a lot of people out there who would loudly proclaim they have never eaten horse, would never do so who can no longer support such claims.
    And what is even more hilarious, they could not tell the difference, like most people can't, and probably even liked it. best Lasagna ever....

    Which of course destroys all your arguments with a small puff of hot air.
    Horse is no different on the plate than beef.


    Now, the next math problem:
    How much Bute will be in a certain muscle group of an average size horse when the horse is given 1, 2, 3 grams of medication.....
    How much Bute will a person consume by ingesting 8, 12 ounces of contaminated meat....

    But seriously....keep harping on bute, how bad it is, you will see it banned fr good, after all, you are giving your animal a known carcinogenic....how sick is that!
    Bless your heart!!!


    I think you have the problem with reading comprehension, if you can't see how my post is relevant to you thinking that fraudulently getting someone to ingest something that they wouldn't knowingly do so.



  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    100%? Right.

    100% hyperbole...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  14. #154
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    I sure hope they don't start making deworming illegal.
    Sure would not be nice to have wormy animals running around and then selling them for consumption, just because some animal rights extremist think dewormers are poison.



  15. #155
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    If the food industry has gotten away with fraudulant listing of ingredients on a label then who truly is to be blamed? This type of mis-labeling has gone on for decades, will go on for decades and unless the public becomes more informed and more involved I would be hesitant to believe any real change will ever occur. I am sorry, but if I am eating a hamburger I would like to feel confident that horsemeat has not been added or any other type of "meat" product for that fact.

    Here is another term and to me even scarier then meat byproducts.. its "animal protein"..


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  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    If the food industry has gotten away with fraudulant listing of ingredients on a label then who truly is to be blamed? This type of mis-labeling has gone on for decades, will go on for decades and unless the public becomes more informed and more involved I would be hesitant to believe any real change will ever occur. I am sorry, but if I am eating a hamburger I would like to feel confident that horsemeat has not been added or any other type of "meat" product for that fact.

    Here is another term and to me even scarier then meat byproducts.. its "animal protein"..
    well, you can avoid stuff like that buy buying 'real' food.

    once you go the route of prepared, you lose control.


    But yeah, we have allowed it to degenerate to this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by andylover View Post
    If the food industry has gotten away with fraudulant listing of ingredients on a label then who truly is to be blamed? This type of mis-labeling has gone on for decades, will go on for decades and unless the public becomes more informed and more involved I would be hesitant to believe any real change will ever occur. I am sorry, but if I am eating a hamburger I would like to feel confident that horsemeat has not been added or any other type of "meat" product for that fact.

    Here is another term and to me even scarier then meat byproducts.. its "animal protein"..
    While "there is fraud everywhere", in the food industry, hospitals, car dealerships, you name it, I am sure you can find someone breaking laws and regulations, it is not the norm.
    Many business are honest and above reproach, doing considerably more than laws and regulations demand.
    That is what separates the really good ones from the rest, especially in mature markets, where everyone knows everyone else.

    Plus, everyone is learning more how to insure laws and regulations are truly followed as they should, from the producers to the inspectors and down to the consumer, as it should be.

    Still, there will always be some crooks out there, giving all honest business and even whole industries a bad name.



  18. #158
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    Hmmmm, now why would the tainted burgers in Europe affect the Canadian plants?

    http://www.calgarysun.com/2013/02/26...e-meat-scandal

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  19. #159
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    USDA chiming in:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/europea...ry?id=18506026

    Where is the "yeah, whatever" smiley?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  20. #160
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    .
    “There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by the sword. The other is by debt.”
    John Adams



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